Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

But tawassul is not limited to the rasool. Did any of you guys read my post on the first page?

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

ummm yeah i do. DO YOU??????

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

It is not permissible to say the statement, ‘Yaa Ali Madad’. The meaning of this statement, ‘Oh, Ali Help’. Such a statement is Shirk.

Assistance may be sought only from Almighty Allah. He is the Supreme Being and has power over everything.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

Why go through a mediator when Allah has given us the right to ask Him for help directly?

This is like asking for sifaarish from someone in a higher position than us. Why cant us desis ever make the system work without sifaarish?

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

Who's talking about desis? I don't get it, can't we Pakistanis/Indians step out of our Islamo-Desi world? There are millions of other Muslims outside of Pak/India who agree with tawassul.

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

Acha yaar, not just desis but everyone.

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

Ya Ali Madad

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

It is not permissible to say the statement, ‘Yaa Ali Madad’. The meaning of this statement, ‘Oh, Ali Help’. Such a statement is Shirk.

Assistance may be sought only from Almighty Allah. He is the Supreme Being and has power over everything.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

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Re: Ya Allah Madad … Ya Muhammad Madad. Ya Aba Bakr, Omar, Othman, Ali Madad!..

no where in it does it say anything about calling upon a dead person…

le de ke wohee purana record bajaa detay ho…
atleast see what u copy/paste before just dumping it here…

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

Folks, could you please refrain from starting new threads on relevant matters? I've noticed a number of members are simultaneously starting new threads copy/pasting their posts from other discussions.

Also, please copy/paste articles references from other websites on Notepad first, then paste it here. It'll save us all the hassle of looking at redundant tags.

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

and if it can then be extended to any righetous person, then YA NANA JAN madad is technically correct as well. right?

YA DADI AMMA Madad!!!

YA RUMI MADAD!!!

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

No, it is incorrect. Your saying directly to your dadi/nana/rightous person. You can make dua to your dadi and ask her to make dua for you. InshAllah.

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

okay, and by the same token, statements liek YA Ali Madad are not right as well, correct?

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

let me clarify to what i said

I am thinking of 4 scenarios here

1) one can not ask anyone for help except allah- so no tawassul
2) tawassul limited to the prophet
3) tawassul limited to the prophet and some other major figures like Hazrat Ali
4) tawassul thru any righteous person

the dbate at this time is rather circular, and in my attempts to learn about this, I thought atleast I would list the diff categories that appear and not let me previous posts and their tone get in the way of an educational discussion, although they were in attempts to understand the concepts being discussed.

so please note which of the 4 do you think is the right one and why, thank you for helping me learn.

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Re: To invoke other for help besides ALLAH is a Shirk

dear brother,
No one is authorised to create new teachings, i quoted you the Quran which clearly shows that no need of Waseela.please read it again its utmost obvious. ALLAH is Sameeulbaseer,He knows the hiden secrets. Prophets or righteous people were not for the purpose of carrying our Dua(prayer) to ALLAH,. nobody, even Prophet Mohammed(peace be upon him) can compel/ convince ALLAH.please read the above Quranic quotes.Opportunist has made us astray and they are emotional blackmailing us. Alhamdulillah i am syed and my25th Pusht is link with Muhammed (peace be upon him) and i know that if i fabricate a new teaching in islam ,my final destination will be hell.
please read the Quran with special heed,you will judge every thing because Quran is Furqan( make you see what is Haq and what is Batil)
if Hazrat Ali A.S. can help us, why did he not help his family at Kerbala knowing that they were on Haq(Right side)
secondy why his beloved sons did not seek father's help
And why we could not find any reference on Waseela in Quran or Bukhari Hadeeth.sorry to say but it seems that as chritian honored their Prophet Eesa(may peace on him) to such a degree that they proclaime him as son of god.
we also adopted the same style and gradually marching towars havoc.
i come to different forums for my obligatory duty(tableegh) as imade commitment with my Lord ALLAH,my job is to show you the Quranic view if someone still like the forefather fabrication then i canonly feel pity for them.
regards
Syed Abdur Rehman

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged

Bro, you are misunderstanding the whole concept of tawassul.

from Mufti Ebrahim Desai (askimam.org):

Tawassul (to seek a medium) is proven from Qur'an and Hadith. Allah
Ta'ala says, 'O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek Waseela to Him.'
Hadhrat Umar (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) sought rain during drought through the
Waseela of the Prophet's Uncle. However, due to people trespassing the
limits of Waseela and there is fear of committing Shirk, it is advisable to
abstain from Tawassul. Any permissible act which may lead to Shirk also
becomes prohibited.

I**t is clear and cut. There is no shirk involved.

We are not saying that asking Allah directly is bad or should be avoided, we are just saying on the matter of tawassul that it is permissible.

Do you understand bro?

Also, please read the following, it is of great benefit to all!

**

** In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,**

** Tawassul (using intermediaries in supplication to Allah Most High) through the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), Awliya and righteous believers is permitted, rather recommended according to the four schools of Sunni Islamic law.**

This has been the mainstream belief held by scholars of this Ummah throughout the eras. The Salaf (predecessors) from the earliest generations had this understanding and this has been the way of the four Sunni Madhhabs in Fiqh.

The meaning of Tawassul is: To ask Allah Almighty through the medium and intercession of another person. For example, one says: “O Allah! I ask forgiveness for my sins through the Wasila (intercession) of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace)”.

Tawassul can be carried out through one’s own righteous deeds, the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), righteous people who have passed away and those who are still alive. All these types of Tawassul are permitted and acceptable.

The permissibility of Tawassul is proven from the Qur’an, Sunnah, continued practice of the Ummah and reason.

Some of the proofs on the validity of Tawassul:

** 1) Allah Most High says:**

“O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek a means (wasila) to him” (Surah al-Ma'ida, V: 35)

The word “Wasila” (a means of approach) in its general indication includes Tawassul (intercession) by persons, and through actions.

** 2) Allah Almighty says:**

“If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you (O Muhammad, Allah bless him & give him peace) and asked Allah’s forgiveness, and the Messenger of Allah had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed forgiving and Most Merciful”. (Surah al-Nisa, V: 64)

These two verses are clear on the permissibility and recommendation of Tawassul. The distinction made by some, between the living and the dead in this matter only comes from one who believes in the perishing of souls upon death, which would lead to denying resurrection.

Also, when one uses Tawassul in supplication, one does not ask and seek from other than Allah Almighty. Only the high position, status and rank of the person through whom Wasila is carried out is used as intercession. In other words, the servant is saying: “O Allah! This certain Prophet or servant of yours is very close to you. I do not possess any good deeds, but I have love for the pious. O Allah! Pardon me and forgive my sins due to this love and connection I have with this pious servant of yours”.

Now, every person with a sound mind will determine that there is no reason to distinguish and differentiate between the living and the dead. This is the reason why scholars such as Imam Subki, Hafidh Ibn Kathir, Imam an-Nawawi (Allah have mercy on them all) and many others have declared the permissibility of Tawassul through the righteous, whether alive or passed away to the Mercy of Allah.

3) Imam al-Tirmidhi (Allah have Mercy on him) and others relate from Uthman ibn Hunaif (Allah be pleased with him):

“A blind man came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: “I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so pray to Allah for me”. The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Go perform ablution (Wudu), perform two Rak’at Salat and then say: “O Allah! I ask you and turn to you through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah! Grant him intercession for me”. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) then said: “and if there is some other need, do the same”. (Recorded by Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Tabrani and others, with a sound chain of narrators).

The express content of this Hadith proves the legal validity of Tawassul through a living person. It implicitly proves the validity of Tawassul through a deceased person, as Tawassul through a living or dead person is not through a physical body or through life or death, rather, through the positive meaning attached to the person in both life and death.

4) Moreover, Imam Tabrani relates in his al-Mu’jam al-Kabir reporting from the same Uthman ibn Hunaif (Allah be pleased with him) that a person repeatedly visited him concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him. The man met his son and complained to him about the matter- this was after the death of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and after the eras of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr and Sayyiduna Umar (Allah be pleased with them)- so Uthman (who collected Hadith and was from the learned) said : “Go to the place of Wudu, then come to the Masjid, perform two Rak’ats and then say : “O Allah!, I ask you and turn to you through our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I turn through you to my lord, that He fulfil my need”....... until the end of the Hadith.

This is an explicit and clear text from a Companion (sahabi) proving the legal validity of Tawassul through the dead. The Hadith has been classed as authentic (Sahih) by al-Bayhaqi, Mundhiri, al-Haythami and many others.

5) In the Hadith recorded by Imam al-Bukhari and others, the Companion Umar (Allah be pleased with him) made Tawassul through the uncle of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), Sayyiduna Abbas (Allah be pleased with him), in asking Allah Almighty for rain at the time of drought.

These and many other Ahadith are clear on the permissibility and validity of Tawassul. This is the reason why the great traditional Sunni scholars have held this belief throughout the ages. Even in the present era, most of the Muslims who belong to the Ahl al-Sunnah Wa al-Jama’ah in most parts of the world have this belief.

Many books in Arabic and other languages have been written in refutation of those who regard Tawassul to be Shirk. Scholars from Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Emirates, India, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia itself have rejected the position held by the minority -so called- Salafi sect.

As far as some of the scholars of the Haramayn are concerned, there views in matters of Aqida are generally from the blind following of Imam Ibn Taymiyya... The Imam, despite having great knowledge, in many issues chose a path which was different from the path of the majority of the Ummah, and the Scholars by and large did not accept his views.

** At the same time, one should be precautious in not having any wrong belief in Aqidah. There should be the conviction that Allah Almighty alone has influence over everything, outwardly and inwardly. Also, one should not have the belief that the supplication (Dua) is not accepted without Tawassul. This is the real Tawhid.**

** And Allah knows best**

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

Tell me than wht does it mean???

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

U tell me! Oh MR. KNOW IT ALL. Then i will consider whether I should even bother wasting my time explaining it.

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Re: Ya Allah Madad ... Ya Muhammad Madad. Ya Aba Bakr, Omar, Othman, Ali Madad!..

WAH KIA KAL DI HIA ALLAH NE APKO...lol

shabass... Keep it up ur hypocracy.......

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Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

WAT YOU THINK ABOUT CALIPH OMER WHO ASK FOR HELP FROM AHLE BAIT TO INVOKE ALLAH...

Abbas asked Umar to sit for some time so that the means of approach to Allah could be provided. The Bani Hashim (Ahle Bait) were then informed. Abbas then came out with Ali, Imam Hasan, and Imam Husain. Other Bani Hashim were behind them. Abbas asked Umar that no one else be added to their group. Then they went to the place of prayers where Abbas raised his hands for prayers and said: "O Allah, you created us, and you know about our actions. O Allah, as you were kind to us in the beginning, so be kind to us in the end." Jabir says that their prayers had not ended when clouds appeared and it began to rain. Before they could reach their homes, they were drenched.

**Bukhari **also reports that once during the time of famine Umar Bin Khattab invoked Allah through Abbas Bin Abdu'l-Muttalib and said: "We betake ourselves to our Prophet's uncle with you; so Allah, send down rain." Then it began to rain. Ibn Abi'l-Hadid Mu'tazali in his Sharh Nahfu'l-Balagha (Egyptian edition), page 256, writes that Caliph Umar went along with Abbas, the uncle of the Prophet, to invoke Allah for rain. In his prayers for rain, Caliph Umar said: "O Allah, we betake ourselves to your Prophet's uncle and of his ancestors and of their remaining respectable men. So guard the position of your Prophet through his uncle. We were guided toward You through the Prophet so that we may seek their help and do repentance."
If to seek out the descendants of the Prophet and to call upon them for our needs in the way of Allah is polytheism, then Caliph Umar was the first polytheist. The Ahle-e-Muhammad, from the time of the Prophet to this day, have been the means of approach in our prayers and invocations of Allah. We regard them only as very pious people and the nearest ones to Allah. Therefore, we consider them a means of our approach to Allah. And the best proof for this is our books of invocation prescribed by our infallible Imams. We accept the instructions of our Imams. I have two books with me: Zadu'l-Ma'ad by Allama Majlisi and Hidayatu'z-Za'irin by Sheikh Abbas Qummi, which I present to you for your consideration. (Both Hafiz and the Sheikh studied the books.) They read the Du'a-e-Tawassul (invocation of seeking nearness), and they found that the Prophet's family was part of the invocation. Everywhere they were mentioned as means of approach to Allah. At that time Mulla Abdu'l-Hayy read the whole of Du'a-e-Tawassul, prescribed by the purified Imams and quoted by Muhammad Bin Babawayh-e-Qummi.