Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
I am curious why you think Israel is dependant on US help ? US is a key ally, tradin partner etc but being dependant on their help is stretching that a bot too far.
Wow. Do you live under a rock? Do you not have any idea about how AIPAC controls everything in the US?! Israel would be eaten up alive had it not been for the US military aid!!
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
I could care less about your “first hand experiences of 2006” but if you want to open a thread discussing Hez-bu-lla’s “first major victory” or whatever you could always do that. As far as the ability to “back it up with facts” I am not too sure:
Jeez. You “really need to” put your haughty insinuations to rest. I said “were” not “are.” And since you completely missed it, I was referring to the Arabs’ crushing defeats at the hands of Israel when they tried, and failed repeatedly and thankfully, to wipe it off the map. Read about six day war, the Yome Kippur war etc.
Sorry to burst your bubble again but there is collaboration between Israeli and U.S. militaries just as there is collaboration between U.S. and a number of other countries. If the crackpot Saudi autocrats can, as they did just last year, chalk out $60 billion worth of arms deal with the U.S. why should Israel, a democratic nation threatened by its neighbors, be an exception? Such is the nature of animosity facing Israel from its neighbors that the U.S. public cannot-- and will not-- let the government abandon our ally.
No. Heck even North Korea relies on outside help!! There should not be any doubt that Israel is not dependent on U.S. for survival. It has the capability of taking its nemeses on its own. It did not, for example, wait for the U.S. to intervene before covertly striking Syrian nuclear site in 2007 to thwart Syrian nuclear ambitions, ambitions which would have changed the power dynamics in the Middle East.
Israeli economy is doing pretty well on its own, with a commendable GDP of around $200 billion and a GDP per capita of $25000+. It can do without U.S. handouts but the question is if Egypt and Pakistan can receive billions in U.S. aid then why should it? At least Israelis do not chant anti-U.S. slogans. 
Frankly, your assertion does not hold water at all for a country known for its scientific innovation and the gray matter of its people.
Did Hez-bu-lla personally inform you that 90-95% casualties were civilian? You have the laughable audacity to accuse others of " total ignorance" when you seem blissfully unaware of the simple fact that even the most conservative estimates of Hiz-bu-lla’s casualties start at 500. Ouch. I wonder who is ignorant. I suggest you go read about the issue.
So Israel lost 2 civilians versus more than a thousand Lebanese? The Lebanese must be so proud of the “victory.” Not. :halo:
ROTFL. Another figment of imagination. For your information, along with the 200 dead rotten bodies, just 5 terrorists were swapped, and not 5000, contrary to your another ludicrous claim!!
Again the number you quote is erroneous. British casualties in Afghanistan has exceeded 340; a simple google search can reveal that but I digress. As for Hez-bu-lla the less said the better. Granted the destruction could have been greater, the casualties even higher but even if the terrorist group was not vanquished, the Lebanese people – the thousands who lost loved ones, the many who were injured, many irrevecobaly, and the thousands who were rendered homeless or had to bade adieu to their possessions-- did lose. Terribly.
Before making ridiculous and preposterous statements like that, why not try to read and understand? Ok, let me break it down to you, piecemeal, in simple sentences: Ignoring other strengths, and there are many, Israel still has nuclear weapons. It can use them if provoked. There is a precedent of state using nuclear weapons when it was attacked. If the Ayatullahs decide to pick a war with Israel, they can rest assured that at least some of Israel’s nuclear weapons will not be spared. If that happens, there will be catastrophic death and destruction of the Iranians.
Considering your paucity of knowledge on some of the key issues and past conflicts, and the unfortunate tendency to pull numbers of thin air, I would rather not dispense more of my energy asking “questions” from you.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Wow. Do you live under a rock? Do you not have any idea about how AIPAC controls everything in the US?! Israel would be eaten up alive had it not been for the US military aid!!
Pls read before you respond. The original post was about Israel being dependant on US help for their technology & weapons development. And I don't know where you live, but Israel has a pretty good technology and weapons program of their own.
Infact Israel is known for being a leader in technology innovation.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Pls read before you respond. The original post was about Israel being dependant on US help for their technology & weapons development. And I don't know where you live, but Israel has a pretty good technology and weapons program of their own.
Infact Israel is known for being a leader in technology innovation.
Israel IS dependent on the US for their 'technology'. Do you know what the super rich Zionists in the US are doing with their money? Sending it to Israel!!! Israel cannot survive without US aid. You know why they have top notch technology? Because of US money! You know they they have top notch weapons??? Because the US supplies them!!!
Wow, you're so ignorant. It's pointless presenting any fact to you.
Also, all you people out there who claim Israel is this poor little soul surrounded by enemies......please check out historical facts before you label Israel a victim. It's so apparent that you just harbor irrational hatred towards Muslims to even FATHOM that Israel has a right to defend itself from its 'enemies'.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
These people are so ignorant. They think Israel is pulling money out of its rear end to finance its technology program. They have no idea how much assistance the US provides to Israel and Israel is everything it is because of US aid. I bet they have never even heard of the term Zionist or AIPAC and how much influence these people have on US policy.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Israel IS dependent on the US for their 'technology'. Do you know what the super rich Zionists in the US are doing with their money? Sending it to Israel!!! Israel cannot survive without US aid. You know why they have top notch technology? Because of US money! You know they they have top notch weapons??? Because the US supplies them!!!
Wow, you're so ignorant. It's pointless presenting any fact to you.
Also, all you people out there who claim Israel is this poor little soul surrounded by enemies......please check out historical facts before you label Israel a victim. It's so apparent that you just harbor irrational hatred towards Muslims to even FATHOM that Israel has a right to defend itself from its 'enemies'.
Lets stick to the subject shall we, or is that too difficult for you ? Jews in the US sending money to Israel is not the same as being dependant on US help. And Israel's technology advances are not due to the money/aid they get from the US - its because they have top notch R&D/innovation and brainpower in their country. Otherwise every country with money would have a top notch technology program.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Read about six day war, the Yome Kippur war etc.
Dude you were probably not even born when I learned about those wars.
Did Hez-bu-lla personally inform you that 90-95% casualties were civilian? You have the laughable audacity to accuse others of " total ignorance" when you seem blissfully unaware of the simple fact that even the most conservative estimates of Hiz-bu-lla's casualties start at 500. Ouch. I wonder who is ignorant. I suggest you go read about the issue.
As I said I was in Lebanon in 2006 on the ground throughout the whole war from day one, I spoke to victims and fighters from both sides... to this day I continue to have good relations with both parties involved I am best friends with an officer in the IDF we trained together on several excersies. :) As for wether Hezbollah informed me or not for the record my source on casualties was the Dr Al Ali the chief spokesman for the Lebanese commitee which conducted the body count. I am probably in a better position to give details on the war than yourself.
It is evident from your pathetic rhetoric that you are clearly the one who has no idea what your talking about and arguing with you is useless since you cannot even agree to facts that 99% of Isreali citizens dont dispute... if you want to you can trawl through the endless Isreali reports on the war, all conclude Isreal lost.
Since your last statement about Nukes clearly shows, you have not even the smallest grasp of millitary matters, to you it's like a game to me it was and is a way of life.
Finally I am going to open a thread on the Lebanon Isreal war to show everyone what really happened and for Zionist supporters like yourself I have to burst the bubble and tell you that since 1948 Isreal has lost it's supposed myth of invincibility...
My hero Saad al Shazly (with whom I met some time ago) destroyed any myth of Isreali supremacy in the region when he re-took the entire Sinnai peninsula in a celebrated suprise attack, to egotistic millitarily illiterates like you and zionist sycophants he showed the whole world that a force which lacks air superiority can still smash another country in a war, back then Isreal knew it was game over and to this day they know it is Egypt that holds the Sinnai peninsula... strictly speaking were it not for Sadat's interference in the matter and the incompetence of the Syrians Isreal would have come out a lot worse, or it would not have come out at all. Milliatry analysts all over the world have named the manouver after Shaazly, it is a textbook method of assymetric warfare but I am sure you couldn't care less since like Isreal your arguments and defence is shrinking with each post you make. :)
Furthermore in 2006 they were beaten by an enemy they underestimated, and they still havent recovered. Isreal is a countery surrounded by enemies.... it's Nukes are a liabiltiy to itself as well when you consider that if it was to nuke every nieghbour that hated it's existence it would in turn destroy itself too.
If Isreal does not wake up to the fact that it has to play ball rather than act the victim and play the bully it will dig itself into a bigger hole, it's allready one of the most hated regimes in the world, so much for prospects.
As for the argument that it does not rely on outside help... it has been proven so many times that it does indeed rely on outside help and no matter what Zionist sycophants say the majority of people are smart enough to know otherwise. :)
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
^ Again their 'top notch' innovation and technology comes from the US!! Israel was capable of nothing!! All their innovation is possible due to US aid. The Zionists in the US make sure the US provides Israel with all the help in developing its military and technology.
They don't have any 'brainpower'! They just have the power to manipulate and make sure the US plays their game!!
Every country with money can NOT have a top notch technology program because the US is not providing assistance to every country. Giving money and sharing your military secrets and weapons are two different things. Unfortunately the US gladly assists Israel in both departments!
And Jews sending money to Israel is not the same thing as Israel being dependent on Israel??? How the heck do you think Israel will get money to advance its military and technology???? From bulldozing olive trees of Palestinians??? You need $$$$$ for everything! Israel is and always will be dependent on the US for its survival. The day US turns its back to Israel will be the day Israel will disintegrate. It's so foolish for anyone to think that that speck of a country can survive on its own!!
You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. You're full of hot air yet you have not made ONE substantial argument that can be backed by facts. Stop watching sensationalist media news and brush up on your foreign policy and history. It will do you wonders.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Do you even think before you post? 
So like I said before you think the Alexondroni brigade and Isreals other elite fighting units use M4 Carbines made by Japan? Yaar the Americans even arm Isreal with the best stuff 
Mate even India has top notch R&D as does every other country but most of Isreals R&D is heavily relient on the US for help…
Anyway this is not a new thing… back in 1948 Isreal beat the early Arab armies due to the fact they had the better left overs of WW2 german weaponry, in a straight fight the Arabs were using outdated Lee Enfield rifles while the Zionists had the FN rifle (supplied by Belgium) and the Mauser 98 and subsequent Krup/Mauser HK guns all supplied by Europe from left over German stuff that was still very good and much newer than what the Arabs had… So right from day one Isreal has relied on outside help.
Like I said Isreal has produced some awesome native small arms and even heavy stuff but it is of mediocre quality and most of it has been stopped in production since they can buy US made stuff much easier. The Uzi is now a popular minigun for criminals but it is Isreals best known small arm, and yet compared to the Port Said submachine gun it is terribly outclassed.
The modern Galil 2 rifle is about as good as any other cheap assualt rifle and it is easily matched by the modified AK74U and AKM. The favoured rifle of IDF troops is the M4 due to it’s design and handling.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Dude you were probably not even born when I learned about those wars.
In which you need a refresher since the knowledge you are betraying is not a little deficient on some key aspects.:)
As I said I was in Lebanon in 2006 on the ground throughout the whole war from day one, I spoke to victims and fighters from both sides
That you were in Lebanon or Timbuktu in 2006 doesn't, unfortunately, change facts on the ground...
…to this day I continue to have good relations with both parties involved I am best friends with an officer in the IDF we trained together on several excersies.
Irrelevant self-advertisement, even if true.
As for wether Hezbollah informed me or not for the record my source on casualties was the Dr Al Ali the chief spokesman for the Lebanese commitee which conducted the body count.
LOL. I wonder how impartial the “Lebanese commitee [sic]” was considering the country's own Prime Minister was unabashedly crying on the international stage while begging for a ceasefire. Just because the Lebanese government doesn't differentiate between Hez-bu-lah's terrorists and civilians and would rather hush hush the casualties suffered by the former doesn't mean everyone else does so as well.
I am probably in a better position to give details on the war than yourself.
This is not a joke forum. In serious discourse, personal claims to the effect "I-saw-this-heard-that" do not amount to much. There is a difference between stating facts and mumbling anecdotal evidence.
It is evident from your pathetic rhetoric that you are clearly the one who has no idea what your talking about and arguing with you is useless
Jeez. Getting personal again. Learn to make your point in a civilized manner instead of getting so worked up. :)
since you cannot even agree to facts that 99% of Isreali citizens dont dispute...
Did you personally conduct a referendum to gauge the feelings of "99% of Israeli citizens" on the issue? Pulling numbers from the thin air again, aren't you? Haha.
... if you want to you can trawl through the endless Isreali reports on the war, all conclude Isreal lost.
Once again a glaring misrepresentation of reality. Just because you have concluded that "Israel lost" does not mean "endless Israeli reports" have as well. Duh!
Since your last statement about Nukes clearly shows, you have not even the smallest grasp of millitary matters, to you it's like a game to me it was and is a way of life.
LMA0. There is delicious irony to savor when one contrasts your obstinate pomposity, as evident quite aptly in this diatribe, with some of your other exaggerations, misrepresentations and erroneous claims that have been thoroughly rebuffed. :)
Finally I am going to open a thread on the Lebanon Isreal war to show everyone what really happened and for Zionist supporters like yourself I have to burst the bubble and tell you that since 1948 Isreal has lost it's supposed myth of invincibility...
Repeating something ad nauseam is quite futile when all the facts suggest to the contrary.
My hero Saad al Shazly (with whom I met some time ago) destroyed any myth of Isreali supremacy in the region when he re-took the entire Sinnai peninsula in a celebrated suprise attack, to egotistic millitarily illiterates like you and zionist sycophants he showed the whole world that a force which lacks air superiority can still smash another country in a war, back then Isreal knew it was game over and to this day they know it is Egypt that holds the Sinnai peninsula... strictly speaking were it not for Sadat's interference in the matter and the incompetence of the Syrians Isreal would have come out a lot worse, or it would not have come out at all. Milliatry analysts all over the world have named the manouver after Shaazly, it is a textbook method of assymetric warfare but I am sure you couldn't care less since like Isreal your arguments and defence is shrinking with each post you make.
Your incoherent rant doesn't change the fact that, unfortunately for you, your great hero could not ultimately force Israel to withdraw from Sinai or, for that matter, save Egypt from facing humiliation once again from Israel. So much for Shazly's heroics! A humbled and humiliated Egypt had to turn to Israel-Egypt Disengagement Treaty of 1974 and the Sinan Interim Agreement a year later in the hope of persuading Israel to hand Sinanai back through diplomacy. As for what would and could have been, all conjecture pertaining to that is, frankly, hogwash.
Furthermore in 2006 they were beaten by an enemy they underestimated, and they still havent recovered.
That is only *your *subjective assessment of the situation, and as far as "recovery" is concerned, just go read about how Gaza was completely pounded without much ado in the 2009 Israeli-Gaza war.
Isreal is a countery surrounded by enemies.... it's Nukes are a liabiltiy to itself as well when you consider that if it was to nuke every nieghbour that hated it's existence it would in turn destroy itself too.
Ever heard of a deterrent? Why on earth would Israel nuke "every nieghbour [sic] that hated it's [sic] existence?" It is nothing but ridiculous to even entertain the possibility that it would.
If Isreal does not wake up to the fact that it has to play ball rather than act the victim and play the bully it will dig itself into a bigger hole, it's allready one of the most hated regimes in the world, so much for prospects.
Sorry to burst your bubble again but Israel's prospects are actually quite bright compared to those of the sorry states that surround it. Unlike Arabs, Israelis have not been engulfed by decades of habitual hating. The Arabs' hubris has only stunted, possibly irrevocably, the progress of their states; Israel remains vibrant and dynamic.
As for the argument that it does not rely on outside help... it has been proven so many times that it does indeed rely on outside help and no matter what Zionist sycophants say the majority of people are smart enough to know otherwise.
As explained in detail earlier even North Korea relies on outside help. It would be preposterous to expect that it should not. :)
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
I suggest Isreali sycophants like yourself seriously start practicing what you preach rather than come back with pathetic rhetoric…
I am not going to waste time trying to argue with a person who seems to think Isreal is an infallible state :hypo:
I think we can draw some conclusions to the matter…
I turn first to the original point the OP made before we went down this pathetic line, Isreal is indeed surrounded by enemies and it has good reason to worry… sycophants like Mr Yahoo and other zionist fans can clearly bury thier head in the sands for such matters but nothing will change the fact that more than ever before Isreal has good cause to be very worried.
If anyone wishes to continue with any arguments over the Lebanese war please visit this thread… http://www.paklinks.com/gs/world-history/485997-operation-true-promise.html#post8069979
:omg: Seriously it’s time you learned Isreal is not infallible and that the myth of it’s invinciblity has long been shattered… being on the ground certianly gives one a better picture but since to you isreal cannot do any wrong it does not matter does it? 
Isreal cannot recover by beating the stuffing out of Gaza if it wants to prove it’s mettle let it try another dance macabre with Hezbollah
I’m hardly civilised to begin with my friend, if you are teach me by practicing what you preach first
Finally it is obvious that we can only agree to disagree it’s been fun arguing with you if you wish to continue it’s your call but I have made my points and you have yet to come out with a single point of your own please do try, your rhetoric is merely an echo of that which the Zionist state pumps out…
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Word 
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Forget it, it’s like talking to stones round here… 
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
I told em… but what do you know Fox news is everything becuase them and others run 24/7 BS while the dead body across the road speaks a thousand words in just one look at the eyes… if it could actually speak for real then that would be a major help… might frighten some sense into Zionists and thier sycophants.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
Getting so worked up and calling names does not really affect my health but does smack of desperation on your part.
What an attempt an “argument" based on hearsay yours has been so far. And btw it is only my time that has been wasted!!
You are free to draw conclusions; don’t count me in.
Oh no Israel does not have "good reason to worry.” Only its foes do. Repeating something ad nauseam has no bearing on the course of reality.
Not at all. Even the dim witted Arab leaders, who in their delusions of grandeur tried on multiple occasions to wipe Israel off the map, in its very nascent years no less, have now resigned to the inconvenient truth: Israel is here to stay and picking battles with it will only yield in more destruction, more deaths, more annexations of territories, and more of the crushing humiliation that they have amply tasted at the hands of their nemesis.
It must be quite an “enriching” experience (pun intended) to discuss the war with someone with not a little knack for exaggerations and misrepresentations!
More likely it is in your imagination that any “myth” has been shattered.
LOL. It certainly did not equip you to comprehend the gravity of losses incurred by the Lebanese people or, for that matter, the casualties incurred by Hez-bu-lla.
Israel’s mettle has already been amply proven. Why should it further “prove it’s [sic] mettle” and to whom exactly? It might come as a shock but, unfortunately, any certificate of valor from your end is of no significance to Israel.
Hez-bu-lla’s clown in chief, nasarullah, remains in hiding, too intimidated to reveal his face in public lest he be killed by the powers he profoundly fear. imad mugniyah, the chief of its militant wing, was deftly assassinated by the Israelis in 2008 in Syria as Hezb-ul-lla watched haplessly. As the last four and a half years document, the terrorist group has already been tamed enough by the Israel’s show of force in 2006 to not instigate any time soon another “dance macabre” for the Lebanese!!
LOL. Your admission certainly helps put things in perspective…
And your rhetoric “merely an echo” of what the Islamists and their cronies pump out…Nonetheless it has been a pleasure issuing point by point rebuttals to what have been many a rambling tirade. But yes we can agree to disagree.
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
terrorist group has already been tamed enough by the Israel's show of force in 2006 to not instigate any time soon another "dance macabre" for the Lebanese!!
The showof force was agianst Hezbollah and it was a failure... the Lebanese will never support Isreal again after 2006.
As for the rest of your pathetic so called rebuttal I suggest you get some rest as it has been very tiring for you. :)
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
LOL. Your admission certainly helps put things in perspective...
You have a problem with simplicity? My friend if you kept things simple you would see the error in your own pointless ways. Anyone who supports the current stance of Isreal and the US is a pathetic excuse for humanity... since it is well known across the globe that the zionists are the modern Nazi's... any support they once had has long been lost, whereas it is the Islamists who are gaining ground every day like it or not the incompetence of America and Isreal is merely helping our cause not thiers, we have yet to hit back. :)
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
LOL. Israel does not give a rat’s behind to whether the Lebanese support it or not. The Lebanese should first learn to coexist among their own countrymen and women.
What a petty attempt to divert attention. Rendered speechless again, haven’t you? Not more could have been expected from you anyways!!
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
LOL. Israel does not give a rat's behind to whether the Lebanese support it or not. The Lebanese should first learn to coexist among their own countrymen and women.
Your putting your garbage out again and speaking for Isreal, why do you think the Isreali's are trying so hard to influence politics in Lebanon?
Seriously you have no idea what your talking about...
Rendered speechless again, haven't you? Not more could have been expected from you anyways!!
Just who'sgetting personal bhai? Like I said you dont practice what you preach... want a pollon the issue? Your on a Pakistani site... what makes you think anyone here supports your sycophantic Isreali/American loving ideals....
It's clear you thik your paymasters are infallible... if you knew anything about me you would know I was the opposite of Islamists but after seeing the views of people like yourself I think you and the Taliban make good bedfellows. :)
Speaking of terrorism you do know the Zionist state was founded by acts of Terrorism, look up the History for yourself the Bombing of the King David hotel was done by Zionist thugs :)
It's clear you come on this site merely to get kicks for your own agenda... you are not even willing to conduct a debate... your just here for a panga match are you not? Well I am all game:)
Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?
You have a problem with simplicity? My friend if you kept things simple you would see the error in your own pointless ways. Anyone who supports the current stance of Isreal and the US is a pathetic excuse for humanity... since it is well known across the globe that the zionists are the modern Nazi's... any support they once had has long been lost, whereas it is the Islamists who are gaining ground every day like it or not the incompetence of America and Isreal is merely helping our cause not thiers, we have yet to hit back. :)
I know my retort was intellectually taxing but had no idea it would elicit such ridiculous utterences. But hey whatever floats your boat!!!