Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Worried Israel: Encircled by enemies again?

This is true. Israel wants all nations to respect them without any conditions, but what the nation has yet to understand is that it, as the uninvited occupant in the region, has the responsibility of earning that respect.

Maybe being surrounded by governments who won't buy their BS as readily as Mubarak did will make them rethink their shenanigans and games they're playing with Palestinian lives. The Israelis have gotten extremely arrogant through their short existence as a state. Hezbollah humbled them a bit back in 06 but they're back to their old games. I mean just look at their reaction to the Iranian warships going through the Suez, it's not their call on what ships pass through the canal but they still walk around talking like they own the place.

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Islamist's never cease to amaze me, people all the revolutions tearing apart Middle East have something in common and that is they all want "democracy". When you have democracy you have to opt for capitalism & secularism.

I am thinking more about what is going to happen to Saudi Arabia & Iran, rather then Israel.

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wat arab nations got in 67? or 73? has anything changed?
I wouldn;t think of egypt change as revolution..the control is still with the army..as it was back in 60's or 70's, only thing that changed or WILL change, are faces. everybody now knows the history of this omer suleiman or their defence minister..the status quo will remain.

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well israel is here to stay. arab world needs to admit and accept that. isreal needs to accept the existence of Palestinians and their rights.
both countries need to talk and come up with a solution without any emotional preoccupation.

it is not about the land, rather it is about religion.
only if the whole region was atheist.

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It's only part of the problem, I think you will find Land is the issue as well as race. Religion is not the only cause of all the tension, race and greed over land are much bigger reasons.

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Or maybe I am not blinded by religious bigotry like some others, and am able to look beyond religion.

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Okay look beyond religion and look up laws of Land ownership and how it can change hands etc… Then tell me what the Zionist state is doing is legal.

Offcourse it isn’t just like if we look at the legality of Indian occupation of Kashmir and again it’s just as illegal. Case closed :smash:

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Yeah, thats why you cover up for your armies crimes against MUSLIM kashmiris, but fall all over the place in support of HINDU Pandits, and use their plight to justify mass human rights violations committed by YOUR country against Muslims.

And people supporting Israel arent all Muslim, as you might think. There are MANY supporters of the Palestinian cause, who are Christian, atheist, secular, and even JEW!

My point is..
You dont have to be a Muslim to understand injustice. However, when you come from a country such as yours, where so many of you are conditioned to ignore injustice, as in Kashmir, then you have an inherent inability to perceive such injustice in other places as well.

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All Arab countries should unite and form a union under King Abdullah of Saudi Arabi and seek his guidance in this delicate matter, It's a very dangerous situation now and clearly much more volatile.

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Really under that be-deen hypocrit? Surely theres more noble men out there?

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I personally believe it is pointless to argue who is wrong and right in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, which group has more right to the land and even past injustices. There has been over 60 years of this and Israel is still an edgy and defensive state, and the Palestinian’s live under occupation and daily humiliation. At the end of the day the Jews and Arabs will continue to inhabit this land, as they have for thousands of years and no one is going anywhere. This land actually (I mean Israel and the occupied territories) is pretty small, it’s total area about the size of Massachusetts. The combined population is around 13 million, made up of Jews and Arabs in almost equal numbers. As Arab dictators get toppled one after another, Israel will be dealing with democratically elected governments on its borders who will be more forthright in demanding a more equitable solution for all, which the Israeli’s will be hard pushed to counter. So in my opinion it is best to go down the route of a bi-national/federal/canton-based state, or whatever you want to call it that keeps the land united and shared amongst the people and the holy places open to people of all the three great faiths.

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Sorry to burst the bubble but technology powerhouse Israel is probably light years ahead of the highly sanctioned, isolated Iran when it comes to military strength so the latest development in the Suez, while certainly not a cause of jubilation for the Israelis, is unlikely to nudge Israel toward adopting a more conciliatory stance than present toward the Palestinians. I believe Palestinians can achieve their "legitimate national aspirations" only by toning down their expectations somewhat, ensuring that ALL Palestinians factions renounce violence and recognizing the very right of Israel to exist.

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It is evident you are no expert on warfare, technology helps but it's not always decisive, assymetric warfare is time honoured method of fighting... victory does not always go to the side with the biggest guns.

Naturally Isreal may be technologically advanced but when you break things down millitarily Isreal is heavily dependant on US help, Iran is not dependant on outside help, wars do not always end before Christmas...

Sorry to burst your bubble but in a protracted and serious conflict it really can swing either way and there is no way Isreal is as powerfull as you assume, in 2006 I saw first hand how one of the most advanced forces in the Middle East with the finest weaponry, was routed from the field by a poorly armed yet well diciplined rag tag army of Lebanese and Hezbollah forces. It seems the world has forgotten the victory of Operation True Promise. Hezbollah was but a fraction of the force Iran can muster, so the result is by no means in Isreals favour allready. :)

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I am curious why you think Israel is dependant on US help ? US is a key ally, tradin partner etc but being dependant on their help is stretching that a bot too far.

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I'm definately not stretching it by any means... if you have any knowledge of the power of the Zionists in US congress you would understand I mean the por-Isreal lobby is a key factor. If the US left the Isreali's then the Jewish state would not last much longer... both US and Isreal are dependants of one another.

The power of the Zionists is akin to the power of the Wahabee fundamentalists, both are more powerfull than they look and both are hooked on the body of others like parasites... this is not hate speech by the way I am just giving examples of the nature of thier methodology.

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Unfortunately, what is more evident is that your understanding, let alone expertise, of warfare leaves much to be desired:

It is the 21st century we are talking about. In the absence of technological innovation and latest military paraphernalia, you just do not stand a chance of repelling the might of a country like Israel.

Oh no, in the Middle East it does! How long did it take for the entire Iraqi army, which had been rightfully sanctioned and slapped with arms embargo after the Kuwait invasion and the equally reprehensible genocide of Kurds, to crumble in the face of U.S. intervention in Iraq in 2003?

That is correct but you attribute its advancement to the wrong reason when you add in the same breath that

No it is not. Israel can boost some of the finest minds on earth. It has significant population of the same people who have historically excelled in sciences. Besides it would be a folly for any nation to be heavily dependent on any one country for survival, let alone for one which is surrounded by states who have yet to recognize its legitimate right to existence.

Neither was Iraq!
The Arabs were not dependent on outside help too. That did not prevent them from being repeatedly hammered and humiliated by the Israel when they waged unprovoked wars against it.

LMAO. So they can continue despite the "Christmas." There will be plenty of opportunities for the soldiers to celebrate after they have defeated the enemy, in this case Iran. :)

Sorry to burst your bubble but in a "protracted and serious conflict" the stronger side can go to any lengths to force you to retreat. This includes the use of nuclear weapons. And it is widely believed that Israel has them.

Haha. I wonder if the "victory" in the 'Operation True Promise' (what a name!) was the reason the Lebanese Prime Minister was openly and shamelessly crying, begging the international community to intercede and pass a UN resolution calling for ceasefire.
But yes, Hez-bu-llah can call it "victory." At least 3/4 of Lebanon was not destroyed and there were only like 1800 Lebanese casualties as opposed to less than 180 Israeli!!

Oh yeah, the Ayatullahs are unrivalled when it comes to the "force" they can muster. Applying less would be advisable though. Unless-- and this is difficult to rule out-- they favor a collective suicide of their nation by picking up an unprovoked battle with the Israelis. :)

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Yes the developments are bad to them. But if somebody thinks a military solution can be achieved,then they are thoroughly mistaken.

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[admin]Stop derailing thread by discussing Kashmir[/admin]

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Very well my friend if it is a serious debate on the lebanese war your after I am willing to open a thread to teach you and anyone else who is interested all about my first hand experiences of 2006 and the first ever major victory Hezbollah has ever won... if your still in doubt I suggest you look at what the Isreali status quo had to say on the matter, in fact I can answer everything you have come up with precisely and back it up with facts.

My frien Sadam and the other Arab regimes all rely on outside help... you really need to look these things up first :)

Sorry to burst your bubble again but yes it is... from the supply of the helicopter gunships and aircraft to even the basic rifle. Do you know what is the preffered rifle of the IDF? It is not the Isreali built Galil 2, Isreals small arms industry which gave the world such icons as the Uzi and the DEagle is long changed... the Uzi was never the decisive weapon it was made to be that belonged to the FN rifle which is built by Belgium :) The Galil 2 is out of favour by the IDF and they actually want to replace thier shock forces with M4 carbines... you dont need me to tell you the M4 is a US built carbine and it is by far the better gun, though since you have never probably fired a gun you would not know. :)

If we go from small arms to armour you will note the Isreali built Merkava tanks share a canny resemblance to the US Abrahams that's becuase under the cosmetics it is a US built and designed weapon, as is the undoubtable Apache AH64 gunship and the most commonly used F=series fighter planes all US built. :)

You were saying Isreal does not rely on outside help...? Furthermore Isreal recieves massive income in terms of financial aid and the RD sector is all handled conveintly by companies like Boeing who are co-working with the Zionist state on various stealth aircraft and drones....

Again you are showing your total ignorance, the 1800 lebanese casualties were 90-95% civillian. The Isreali's lost only perhaps 2 civilians the 180 men they lost in three weeks were almost entirely IDF. Furthermore you dont mention that Isreal went on to release 5000 prisoners held in thier Jails for activity related to terrorism and violence against the Jewish state in return for one dead body... Hezbollah was the biggest winner of that brief conflict hands down... when you consider casualties do take note that here in Britain the death toll from years of fighting in Afghanistan has recently crossed the 200 mark, in Lebanon back in 2006 the Isrealis forces lost almost as many men in three weeks... believe me for both sides it was one hell of a battle and the conditions of fighting were akin to Stalingrad of WW2.

Before making ignorant and outlandish statements like that please consider that you will be required to back up your views with facts otherwise they are merely hotheaded opinion.

I am cooly going to answer your every question in regards to Isreali and Arab millitary positions in any current, ongoing or possible future conflict.

I look forward to having a good debate on the matter... if you would like me to discuss this do not hessitate to ask. :)

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Probably the best view in this thread Arlietter bhai. Welcome back. :hugz: