[quote]
Originally posted by Faisal:
You quoted it, slightly out of context, as that whole passage relates to sexual harassment and unwanted pressures. No one wants to be sexually harassed. Consentual sexual danglings between married co-workers is another issue and it relates to the matter of "trust", which is covered in an earlier paragraph.** If a married woman wants to have an extra-marital affair, she can start it in any place, and is not restricted to office environment.**
[/quote]
Good! that's what I wanted to hear :~) Btw guys relax, a normal married working female with kids will have hundred many things in her mind, as to start an affair with her co-workers.
You know you can see the higher ratio of women getting harassed in two ways
women are weak and let themselves get harassed.
men are animals and dont know when to stop.
Personally I think its a little bit of both.
For the first point, I dont think that there is any reason why in today's world any woman in this world (even in Pakistan) need be weak. Yes, there is the pressure of male-dominated society, but in the end you are what you want to be or what you let yourself become.
For the second point, there are many ways that men can bring their bp down after seeing a desirable woman. Its called self-control.
By the way armughal, I'm sorry you think I'm too young to pay serious attention to. Your loss buddy, not mine.
[This message has been edited by PyariCgudia (edited June 17, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
**
I know of several women out there that are less confident of themselves than I am. They are pegged as people that have low self-esteem and suffer from anxiety when asked to fend for themselves in the big bad world. I'm sure that you will make a more than suitable match for one of them providing both parties with what they are looking for in a spouse.
**
[/quote]
Muzna baji,
Even though I know better than to debate with you, what exactly did you mean by the quoted paragraph above? armughal wanting to marry a lady who chooses to not work, doesn't necesserily mean that she'll have less confidence in any way, or would it? What exactly is the relation between them?
Also, I believe, a family life is much more important to some people when compared with a career.
I'm sure its ok for women to work (from a religious perspective) in environments dominated by females or those that have little to no interaction between the two sexes, hence I feel that armughal's point about a woman not working at all is baseless and extreme, to say the least.
Anyhow, armughal does have a good point,
that the survey shows a lot about where the extra-marital affairs spring from, if the interaction isn't kept at the least.
[This message has been edited by ammarr (edited June 17, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by ammarr:
** armughal wanting to marry a lady who chooses to not work, doesn't necesserily mean that she'll have less confidence in any way, or would it? What exactly is the relation between them?
Also, I believe, a family life is much more important to some people when compared with a career.
**
[/quote]
Ammarr,
First of all, if armughal had chosen to express himself in the context that you have done, I would not have disagreed with him at all. I would have started participation in this thread with my last comment....that I respect his opinion and will not try to alter it.
There is a vast difference in what I see you writing and what he has written.
you say "a lady who chooses to not work". This is not the same as suggesting that women "should not work".
Now...there is no relationship between a woman who chooses to not work and her level of self-esteem. There are women, myself included, that have or will choose to sacrifice careers for the sake of raising a healthy family. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think it's a very wise decision because ultimately, a job may come or go while your family will be with you until the very end. As a woman, and I may get pounded for making this comment, I believe that my primary responsibility is towards my family.
There is, however, a relationship between women who do work and are not confident enough to remain faithful to their husbands/ethics. These are women that need to have a husband/mehram that accompanies them wherever they go and in whatever they do. And I believe that these are the category of women that would make a suitable match for someone that believes women "should" not work.
Finally, with regards to the survey and the alleged source of extra-marital affairs, it is my personal belief that people who look for excuses for their actions are generally of weak character. Keep interaction at a minimum, prevent women from working so that an affair doesn't have a chance of occurring....pshaw! I find that to be a bunch of you know what.
no my point was not to choose a woman who does not wish to work....
my point was not to allow women to work, even if they, out of folly, wish to do so....
and no i dont consider trying to twist the statement to make it look acceptable....
essential statements like there r better left clear and straight to point....
[quote]
Originally posted by armughal:
**no my point was not to choose a woman who does not wish to work....
my point was not to allow women to work, even if they, out of folly, wish to do so....
....**
[/quote]
Ammarr,
I hope that armughal's own clarification of what he has been saying helps you to understand what I have written.
I believe women are just as capable of making their decisions as you are, so you're free to choose someone who agrees with your morals, but forcing women to not work? Where are you getting this from? Please expand.
[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
** Finally, with regards to the survey and the alleged source of extra-marital affairs, it is my personal belief that people who look for excuses for their actions are generally of weak character. Keep interaction at a minimum, prevent women from working so that an affair doesn't have a chance of occurring....pshaw! I find that to be a bunch of you know what.
**
[/quote]
I agree Muzna, or I have seen that some people have guilty conscience, like they know that they don't behave in the right & respectful manner to other na-mehram females, hense feel that others will do the same with their sisters and wifes. sickening
PCG: Thank God not all men think a like, my family men have no problem with working females.
I wonder if generalization is another trait that goes with Islamic fundamentalism......or fundamentalism of any sort.
Here's what I mean....armughal decides that all women should be prevented from working/interacting with the opposite gender because it increases the likelihood of being unfaithful.
While I agree with the concept (i.e. If you walk on the freeway, you do increase your chances of getting hit), I think that I should at the very least, be given the opportunity to make this decision.
Why do people believe that women should not be given the right to choose?
Three words: "lack of education". I personally know females who've learnt (in depth) about Islam and found that least interaction was infact the best way. It all depends on how much effort is put into finding out about your religion.
The real crap comes from both guys and girls who haven't made an effort to find out about Islam. Some muslim girls will declare (without even a byte of research) that there isn't anything wrong with working in the public place, and similarly there are men who'd either 1)force the woman to not work or 2)not make even a pinch of effort of effort to make her understand the risks involved with working in a public place.
Its mostly about balance I believe. A lot of us are just blabbering here without knowing what Islam asks of us.
Ammarr: I find your tone rather patronizing (no derivative pun intended). Men should explain to women of the perils of working in the working place? Are you kidding me? Are women inherently incapable of understanding the dynamics of the working world?
Chaltahai, No, I believe it applies either way. If I find that any woman in my mehram circle isn't following Islam correctly, I'll try to correct her. Similarly, when she finds something wrong with my actions, she can tell me where I went wrong.
Each and everyone have their own definition of living their life according to Deen Islam. I find it crap when people think they know so much about Islam and pretend and act they are so religious but in reality are just putting a facade in front of everyone. Are we saying it's right for a muslim women to work with males, from the islamic point of view, no! cos this is not the religious section (even in Islam a decent job is not forbidden). Yeah some guys, when all other arguments fail come with religion to pressurize female, mind you if it wasn't for such men, this whole world would have so peaceful.
.. hense feel that others will do the same with their sisters and wifes.
[/quote]
I'll put "sick" next to the word "protective" in my dictionary. Crazy opinions galore.**
[/QUOTE]
What..You find it crazy, that I find it sickening that some males make their females stay at home, just cos they know and feel
"first-handed" from their own experience towards na-mehram females, how men act towards females...some narrow mindness there or do you feel yourself related, and don't tell its crap.
I don't know for sure Saadia, but I think using the word "protective" is ammarr's way of seeing the glass as half full rather than half empty.
It's not entirely wrong. I agree that many tenets of Islam "protect" the female from a lot of harm, however, this "protection" should not be jammed down her throat.
If we do our best to educate our daughters, then we should have enough faith in what we have taught them to let them make certain decisions. We should feel confident that they will, ultimately, do what is right.