O Mighty Wise One, You seek my opinion? Wow.
If I were to post my opinion regarding 4:34 it will cause bannishment and maybe a fatwa calling for my head. Let me take a crack however.
I value Quraan more than any other holy book(I guess the Muslim in me), however there are certain verses that need to be taken in context of when and where they were received. There is also a human element present between the deliverence of Quraan and people writing it. Also womens right is a new thing when compared with history. In US women were burnt as witches (and US is a fairly new country in scheme of things). So if Quraan mentions beating; while it may appear odd is acceptable. At the time Islam was being delivered the Arabs were burying their female childern alive.
4:34 doesnt mean to go out and start beating your women. Quraan also has dedicated a chapter Al-Nisa so the importance of women is also highlighted by the fact that they get a dedicated chapter. Mary has special place in Islam and Jesus birth off a virgin Mary is also emphasized and part of our belief.
The reason for my post was multi faceted, one of the reasons however was to bring to light to my muslim sisters at GS that while calling for Sharia and Islamic States is OK, just don’t forget your limited rights in Sharia and Ummah or Islamic state. It’s better to read and understand the issue/ solution with a clear mind than following it with emotions.
Re Post #82,#83
No one spoke about a new version, but since we are high fiving each other. Here goes.
Muslims cannot tolerate a new prophet or, whatever Mirza Sahib is considered in Ahmadiyat (Lahoris and others combined), so foget about a new version in our lifetimes. But I wouldn't mind seeing a new version with 4:34, and the punishment of a muslim murderer (it's in the first 5 surahs). It makes the religion more attractive to an outsider.
Try making a sale with 4:34 hi-lighted.
Looks like somebody left you hanging, don't feel left out, whats the point of post 84 though?
The onus is on you to make the necessary changes, do release it for publication, I will be happy to pre order my personal copy.
Can I propose a change, may be you can reference me on that in the bibliography, here it goes, there is a bit in Quran, I am not sure where exactly it is as I am not a divinely gifted puveyor of wisdom such as yourself, but it talks about land, barren land, land affected by salinity to be exact or what we in Pakistan, that massive heap of filth, refer to as "saym aur thor".
I propose you take this out as well along with whatever your omniscience
deems unfit.
I will tell you the reason on the condition that you promise to accept my proposal......
tidday why cant u see sense? i find more you more than mudhosh.
n do tell me if u r da mirza cookie coz really that might help me see where u originate from?
a: what is a tidday
b: I cant see sense?OMWO I dont see sense in beating women or for that matter beating someone that is weaker than myself.
c: Whether I am a Mirza cookie or a devil worshipper, shouldn't make one bit difference to you or to anyone.
Here is a refresher O mighty Dumb one.
109:6
Lakum deenukum waliya deen*i*
You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
Please refrain calling "Mirza cookie" to religious figures. If you dont believe in something you don't have to exploit it, show respect. I can use the same towards your respected prophet but then a kersosine lamp would have been lit under your hinee and under the Ummah.
oh n my respected prophet is your respected prophet rite?
and being a mirza cookie does make a difference for reasons that if you wish to know i could pm you.
you say you value Quran more than any book, then you say you dont see sense in a verse and you are not mudhosh?
third tidday comes from the same place where the might wise one comes from so chill
i respect others religion as long as they dont try to modify mine.
no i dont, i just think you shouldnt tell others to respect when you have hard time doing it.
and if my intention was to belittle some one or crack jokes on any one's religion i would open my own thread.but thats not why i am putting messages up here.
i asked you a honest question why dont u see sense and your answers are contradictory.
1: May be. But if you can lower yourself to name calling I can surely lower myself to your standards and subject to blasphemy. But I can guarantee you will not be able to handle it. So cut it out.
2: I value Quraan because of many things that your brain is not at capacity to understand nor do I have time to explain. Once you grow up and have matured you will see what I meant. But here chew on this Quraan while a beautiful written book is full of contradictions. I can live with contradictions, I just don’t pay any attention to it, thats all. What I suggested and got your panties in loop was based on you high fiving your brother che. So dont put words in my mouth.
Now if you want to continue I will be more than happy to dig up quraanic verses that are full of contradiction(mind you I just finished transliterting Quraan for a pocket PC, so it is very fresh in my mind).
AS far as whether I am a qadiyani or a muslim or a devil worshipper, shouldn’t make any difference to you. I know you are are dying to label me as a qadiyani or a ahmadi becasue of a post that Iwrote under shaeikh sahinb. Have a party with it, Dig it up, blow it up and post it ext to your favorite Jinnahs picture dangling in your room.
[QUOTE]
i asked you a honest question why dont u see sense and your answers are contradictory.
[/QUOTE]
Extrapolate Explain and will answer. What sense, sense in what
Beating women?
i see you have matured ,you are trying to tidy it up, try and try and the fact that you will never succeed might make sense to you some day.
i have never called myself authority on islam,there might be 100 seemingly contradictions, i cant probably explain it to you, i know nothing and i have no problem admitting it ,do you?
your logic also has contradictions you cant seem to explain those, mind you not that i am saying that i am particularily interested but it would be better if before putting up questions you examine your own "thought process"
yes you might think labeling you is the priority of my life hate to disappoint you but it isnt.thats not why i am here, i have a problem with people asking questions, rejecting answers and not coming up with anything when the same question is put up to them.
your being ahmadi or what ever is important because that puts a different spin on the entire conversation. now ask what that angle is, since you are a naive heart. it doesnt bother me if a non muslims says something disrespectful about quran but it does when it comes out of the mouth of a muslim.
there is beating women, there is fighting with people solely on the basis of religion (jihad a concept absent from ahmadiyat) there is stopping anything that goes against Allah's order by force if you have to, do you see sense in any of them? perhaps not, that makes you a muslim?
sense in praying five times a day?
sense in raising you finger saying kalma?
sense in stoning people for adultery?
sense in Quran? gee no there is no sense
sense in doing wudu ?what does it matter to Allah if we wash up or not surely its the heart.
sense in fasting? empty stomach, surely the heart is important
sense in throwing stone in hajj, its not gonna kill satan now is it?
Hai Allah bus sirif sath cheezaN. Choro Yaar kum uz kum 10 tO daltey maza bhi aata.
BTW don't kid yourself that you are not interested. You must love me or something because evidently you have been keeping a scorecard. But it's ok. When I was a little boy I used to collect baseball cards, you seem to collect my posts.
See after I was done transliterating Quraan, I promised to read,and am reading, so far I am upto 5:76.
Just between 5:60-5:76 I saw some more contradictions. But you know what I'll open up other threads so you can add them to your gripe list.
P.S I dont remember saying anything about fasting so that must be someone else (not my multi-nicks either).
You dont raise you finger when you say kalima, I was talking about the prayer and raising finger. kalima and ahsadan la illaha are two different things. Meaning might be the same.
on the other note if you are in the process of search for THE religion then i suggest take your questions to scholars. and another thing that might help is asking the Almighty (thats not me i know u seem to think so) before you start reciting, no one can give you answers if He doesnt so ta!
Awww are you really in love with me, I hope you are a woman cause I don't swing both ways.
Why I am I reading Quraan. That is a very good question.
I was a qari when I was young, but never understood what I said.
I read the translation at age 28 for the first time and was captivated. I re-read the translations three times.
This year upon my return from Pakistan, something told me to transliterate quraan with translation and put it in public domain oneday ( I dont know what, I just woke up and said I am gonna do this). So I did.
Well now I am proof-reading it and once done I will put it in public domain for anyone to use for free, compared to Urdu Mahir site that charges $25 dollars or soemthing. I dont believe in associating $ figures to holy books.
It is this time that I am reading quraan and actually reading it with an open mind compared to reading it as a believer, that I see verses that I think are contradictory or don't make sense. Now MiniMe suggested that I read a tafsir, I have no problem reading the tafsirs either and will do once I am done reading the translation/transliteration.
It will be easier because this time around any verse that I have issues or questions about I post them on GS and add them to my database for when I am ready to read the tafsir.
BTW if you want the transliterated copy let me know I will be morethan happy to mail it to you or put it on GS.