Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
Bebo i totally agree!! there are so many claims being made in this thread that point towards beardless men as not the followers of something wajib...i mean what is being implied here???
the same people who claim the beard to be wajib, are telling us that they dont think a beardless man is any less of a muslim.....how contradictory is this??
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
Well, I might be wrong because I don't remember the exact source where I read the two hadiths, the concept of which I am going to mention here.
The Prophet (saw) ordered us to follow wajib, but he also said, " It is enough for the destruction of a man, that he starts thinking of himself to be better then another man"
So, the contradiction is there for bearded people because even after keeping a beard (which a person considers wajib for himself) he knows he has no right to consider himself to be better than a non-bearded person, because he is only trying to submit to the orders and sunnah of the prophet, and the right of judgment is not with him. The judgment is only in the power of Allah (swt)
p.s. Keeping a beard is not easy in any way. Ask anyone who has kept it. So, no Muslim wants to put himself in such difficulties unless he is convinced from heart (mostly after sincere research) that this is a true sunnah of the Prophet which he appreciated on the faces of his companions.
Sister Chanda, I understand from your past posts in this thread that you believe the prophet (saw) had a beard.
I would like to request you to consider a hadith, which we Muslims have come across many times in our school books, " A mo'min always likes for others also, what he likes for himself" If the Prophet (saw) liked a beard for himself, he definitely liked it for his companions also, which is clear from the hadiths shared in the past. We all know each and every personal preference of a Prophet is not meaningless, but has wisdom in it.
So, something which a Prophet (saw) likes on his own face and hence likes on the faces of his followers (which is cleared from hadith), if a person is following it and bearing all the pains in his daily life to please the prophet (saw) and hence please the ultimate Lord (because a prophet doesn't say anything that displeases Allah) then how come we can say that beard is not** "at least preferable" **for a Muslims. Disconnecting it from the qualities of a good Muslim, is indeed not a good idea.
Again, I might be wrong but this is how I have felt after my sincere search for years.
p.s. Keeping a beard is not easy in any way. Ask anyone who has kept it..
Whats so difficult about it? Infact, all you have to do is 'NOT SHAVE', which by the way will save you atleast 10-15 minutes every day, its actually being properly groomed, and good looking, thats the difficult part. Beard is easy.
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
It is good that these days I have seen more and more people whose parents, wife,...etc. don't have any problem with their keeping a beard. Over the period of time they have accepted the fact that it is 'his' personal choice and a person doesn't look bad after having a 'sunnah' of the Prophet (saw) on his face.
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
Whats so difficult about it? Infact, all you have to do is 'NOT SHAVE', which by the way will save you atleast 10-15 minutes every day, its actually being properly groomed, and good looking, thats the difficult part. Beard is easy.
Then you have yet to walk through an airport with one.
I'm not a man so the beard thing doesn't apply but I can see where the difficulties arise. When you have a beard the way people think about you changes, in countries abroad people will think of you as wrongly affliated with terrorist groups and in Pakistan you are no longer 'modern' which puts you right at the bottom of societys hierarchy.
There's bound to be problems in the work place as well, for those that don't keep beards the least you can do is respect the effort and commitment that goes into it; he is doing so so for the sake of his love for the Prophet (pbuh) and his efforts should therefore not be belittled.
I'm sure I heard a hadith somewhere where the Prophet (pbuh) stated that in the last times holding onto religion will be harder than holding on to a ball of fire, I don't think anyone here will diagree with the fact that we aren't far off said 'last times'.
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
I am thinking since keeping a beard is a sunnat not a complusion so in that case maybe the husband needs to adjust to her wife's demand/request. See its important for the couple to be attractive towards each other so if a beard is coming in the way then i guess she has the right to ask for it to be removed. I don't want to offend anyone but from whatever little i know this is what i could make out of this situation.
Now if i a man asks her wife to stop covering herself, the above can't be applied here. Because for a women, covering herself is not a sunnat but a compulsion. Plus she doesnt have to cover herself infront of her husband so he can't have any reason to say that it comes in the way of their relationship.
Hope i am making sense.
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
But Maham, having a beard is considered "wajib" which means it is as close to fardh as possible...like witr at isha. So if my husband decides to grow a beard, asking him to remove it because he doesn't look good in it for me, would be asking him to give preference to me over earning the love of Allah...no?
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
Just looked up wajib on net and there are diff things said about it. Some say wajib and fard are interchangeable terms while some suggest wajib is also close to mandatory but could be worked around with concession based on conditions and circumstances of one’s ability. So, i m confused. But thanks alot for bringing this to my notice and now i will be reading up more on it :).
An interesting article i came across;
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
All those who think having a beard is "just a sunnah" they need to properly study the matter first, not by just searching on "the net" but talking to an aalim. if you HAVE TO search on web, do it on authentic sites. Beard is a Wajib, shaving it is a sin. If you don't practice it like many other things like most of us, fine, accept it. but dont try to miss guide people with things like "its not necessary" and "its just an optional thing to do" etc.
Good post Submission to Peace.
I personally know two of my friends who went through this situation. One of them was opposed by his wife + family, and he was not man enough to face it, and he did cut it. the other one stood firm when opposed, and today his younger brother and some cousines are also following him.
In my own case... I didnt have one just a couple of years ago. when i decided to go this down this line, ALHAMDULILLAH i never faced any opposition from family, they always encouraged it, had very little whyining from the other side, but it all went away with time
and of course those who think its not hygienic are mistake, personal hygiene is equally or even more important sunnah, or better we call it a FARD to observe. You cannot perform prayer without wudu, you have to do it 5 times a day, and when u are having a beard, your wudu is not complete until you clean it properly. this makes the ones who wear a beard to be more conscious about cleaning it than the ones who shave every day.
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
I was just trawling gupshup..and came across this beard promotion thread...clicking in it and seeing and having to go throuigh those 14 pages of debate..my brain is tired.
Anyay heres 2 cents from me that i cannot resist saying.
Firstly i am not an advocate of the beard, i have my reason which ill explain below.
Secondly, and very importantly m, it hs shocke me how some people seem to give so much less importance to the suuanh of the Prophet. The implication i get is some people think the Prophet was just an ordinary man who ws a go-between of information between Allah and the people. (nz)
This is absolutely erroneous. The Prophet was not n ordianry man, like neither of them were. Each Prophet from birth to maturity has had qualities traits that no other man has. They are the wisest of people even before annoucnment of the Prophet hood.
Im sure you all know the ayat of the koran wherer H.Gabreil came to muhammad and took his heart out and weighed it, where the resilt was that the weight iof his small heart out weighed a vast counter weight, which showed the richness qand magnificance of this person.
Lastly on this topi id assert, that , as we all agree that 'allah said obey and listen to the prophet'.
Well a one of very popular final statments ofthe Prohet (pbuh) was that ' You will not go asraay if you follow two things, those things are the koran nd my sunnath'
Now this is a auhetic and recofgnised hadith...aand in another hadith he also said that 'follow mine and my riteous guided caliphas sunnath and you will not go stray'.
Therefore we see the great importance of the prophets sunnath. It shoudl be reminded that Allah only ent down the instrcutions/laws, but it ws the prophets unnath that these laws were shown to the people.
The words allah sent down, and as we understand them, are not simply by ourself. Each of the things we understnd from the korn are understanding of ayah sent down to our parents teaher from thier teaher, and thier teachers which extend back to the shabies and the Prophet himself.
There is one thing ti have knoweldge of somthing i.e koranic ayat or hatih, but UNDERSTANDING is another thing. The Understanding of the koran was passed down by the Prophet to the people. Do people nto remeber that the koranic ayahs' were revealed gradually? And in those intervals the Prophet teached people to get used to adapting to the new law or recomnedation, until the next ayah was revealed.
So saying that Koran is the complte knowledge is fine. But talking about how to understand it--is where the sahabies would nto have understood the koran inspite it containing the complete guidance/knowledge. And then neither would us people have been passed down that understasnding and concerently neither be able to understnd.
Back to Beard:
Nowe the thing with the beard is it is not mentioned in the koran. Schoalrs agree that the most important things are mentioned in the koran. For example obligation of fasting, praying, haaj, zakat, sadaqah, hijab, stealing, murder, zina, fornication, gayness.
Its also agreed that major punishments are mentioned in the koran. For example punishments for murder, zina, stealing etc.
The 'beard' has not been mentioned in the koran, except for ONE place, which is in the context of H.Mosa.
And remember people this is just once.
The Prophet (pbuh) kept the beard--thats his choice. Its a defintly a suunah or some asert it more than a suunah like ssunat-e-mukida or wajib. sunah means recommedned and wajib means strognly recommedended.
In any case the beard is NOT FARZ.
People often quote also the ONE AND ONLY hadith in the whole of Bukhari shareef on keeping beard, which is where Prophet (pbuh) said ''trim your moustaches and spare your beards'.
This is just one hadith in bukhari...from which people press people that beard is waji and they have to keep it.
Speaking by the same analogy.
There is another hadith in the same area as the the above haith which states ''when one of your takes his shoes off, take your right shoe off then the left''.
The isnghted people, im sure wil recognise this hadith. Now from this hadith can people say that taking right shoe of before left shoe is wajib or farz.....I dont think so. Would you say I am a sinner if i take my left shoe of before the right...?
More, i think its a geranl statement of sdomething recommmedned contray to somthing being incubunt or binding.
Coming back to personal opinion, and the thread topic. I do not think it is unreasonable of a women asking her husband to trim or shave his beard so in order she can see and touch his beatiful face.
Why do not some people get it as spock has said that beard look bad. They make you look uneat, and i dont like to say this but nasty and beastly especially when they are so big and unkept. Who is attracted to somebody with hairy face.
Men, and including molvi men, all desire beatiful wifes, there is so mcuh emphasis of women to keep themselvs beautiful for thier husbands and that and be pleasing to them. So what about womens desires and needs- isnt it similarly fair that thier hsuband should be pleasing to them.
Can man just imagine for ine second if thier wives also stopped keeping herself, and she ended up with moustches and sideburns or whatver, would her hsuband want to go even near her?
The one can imagine the plight of a women. I do feel sorry for that women who tried killing herself. I dont condone her suicidal action, but i do understand her need to want to see her husbands face. I mean the husbna dis sucha selfish and reluctant twat. Whta he going to loose for triming or shaving his beard once ian while to mak his wife happy. I mean his wife probaly does al the thing he desires for her, she cookss for him, washes si clothes, brought up his kids...and this man cannot even do one thing which is to shave his beard for her.
And what about intimacy...dont these women feel rashed or uncomforatvble bythier beardy husbands.
Men-understand somthing and this applies to me too---the beard makes you look unattractive ok.
Only those men who have the inner good and outer do the beards look good on them. But most of us are not like that.
And as the molana in socks video, said- sort your inside out before the outside.
There are so many stories about bearded boys/men doing wrong things all over the world its so pathetic and humuliatuing for the rest of us. People who give beard priortiy over the inside, and carry on with normal crap actions...bring islam an overall worse problem than not having the beard.
With all respect to the Prophet and sahabies beard, who inner natures would make them beatifu in any attire they adoped.
But for me i cannto adopt the beard for many reasons: I feel too itchy and hot, i lok uneat and unkept, i live ina western enviroment, I get less work oppurtunities because of my beard. So its better for me not to keep it.
I feel much more comfortable, fresh and confident being clean shaven to kep up with western life demands.
I knwoa lot of 'islamic brothers' who have beards and do evetyhign according to sunnath--but then thats all they do...they dont study properly, they dont work--they just live on goverment benefits.
Now is a brother who gives his full respect to the beard and doesnt get a job to feed him and his famly with his blood and sweat rather thann gov beenfits more betetr or the brother who doesnt have a beard but he whos worked hard throughout his life to get a good job to feed himself and his family?
I thin Allah woujld be more happier with the second type.
The re are so many 'molvis' in the west that jut live of goverment benefits---and i dont respect them for having abeard or even reading 5 times namaz. I dont want to be like them or be associated as one of them.
The Prphet is long way back.....nowadays its just these molvis you get....i dont want to be like them extremists.
Plus: The beard was a cultural thing 1400 years back. Everybody used to have a beard. The culture is changed now.
I dont see what differance is between a man who has fluf of hair on his face than one who isnt. Cannot clean shaven people be naamzi's and rigteous people---which is the main thing...and a lot of them are.
Is Islam just about outward actions? Or is Islam more about inner intentions.
I wouldnt disagree to a small trimed beard though fora normal male.
I have studied in the west with all types of people included the molvei types. I had a very prominant islamic union in my university. And they all had thier beards and jubas and all. What i noticed that these boy spend spent so much time on the 'deen' and 'brother' things, that they would fail thier courses or come with very low marks, that would get them no job in the field they were studying in.
Is thsi what all us men should be like? If we were i think we all us men should be like if we were.then i think all the muslims in western countries would me milking the goverment...
What is it with people and fluff. Just take it off so people can see the real you.
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
French cut all the wayyyyyy!!! BRAPpppppp1
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
What is it with people and fluff. Just take it off so people can see the real you.
^^ I respect your opinion, in fact I have pretty much have a similar view on beards' status as sunnah and not obligatory, but I do feel you are being a tad condescending to people with beards. I'm sure there are also women out there who would be happy to see their husbands with beards and following the Prophet pbuh's sunnah.
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
^^ I respect your opinion, in fact I have pretty much have a similar view on beards' status as sunnah and not obligatory, but I do feel you are being a tad condescending to people with beards. I'm sure there are also women out there who would be happy to see their husbands with beards and following the Prophet pbuh's sunnah.
As I am an arab myself, I know to have a beard its a status as a sunnah, but since beard was the topic, I wanted to give input which beard i liked on mens, thats it. nothing else
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
As I am an arab myself, I know to have a beard its a status as a sunnah, but since beard was the topic, I wanted to give input which beard i liked on mens, thats it. nothing else
Sorry, my post was actually directed at Nutwer :)
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
To Rizla:
Yeh, sure, force is not part of Islam. But i just want to taker stance for the women who have to do everything do look 'pleasing' to her husband.
a wife does evrtyhing for her husband; cook for him, wash his clothes, feed his kids, hide his sins from the people, give him sex...etc etc
Simialry the husband should respect his wifes need tolook'pleasinjg'and attractive to his wife. Are not women entitled to beauty?
Besidesthe beard is not even a FARZ like the hijab. I would understand it if any body was making a fuss about women not wearing hijab or atleast headscarf when out..and i wouldnt complain as rumbustiously. But some people take the beard to far...There are so many more important things than this. The HIJAB has its own wisdom...which sint relevant to discuss here. But i dont understand exaqctly what is the benefit or loss if i wqalk around clean shaven compared to wallkijng around witha beard. Am i doing myself or societya great damage?
Most of the laws, recomendations in Islam are provided for genuine wise reason where they is a benefit or omition of some detriment via implmenting the law. I see the beard or fluff as a personal choice.
Wht i noticve tha most and i mean most of the people keeping beard are extremist.s-by extremist i mean they spend so much time on pefecting thier sunnahs/wajibs that they are neglect duniya duties. this why I any many people dont have any gre3ater respect for bearded people.I do have the greta respect for some,...but those some are...who are genuine from inside, outside and aware of duniywee duties.
I think if the Prophet (pbuH) were alive, he would truly be happy to see theseminority of peopleof beard who are his true followers asopposed to the ones that just keep beard for the sake of keeping it and dont understand islam how they should.
I dont disgree to the women who are fine with thier husbnads beard. But i still think inside these women would plike them to be clean shaven and smart:p
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
since this thread has once again been brought up, and i think no proper references were given by us who claim that its wajib (may be there are, i did not go through all of the pages in detail). so i think its good idea to post the references now.
here are two very respectable and authentic sources which explain in detail why its Wajib and not just sunnah. also note that, allll wajib acts which are also performed by Rasoolallah :saw2: are also sunna as well as wajib, but we all know that it doesnt mean it nullifies its wujoob…
here are the links
http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6895&act=view
islam.tc = askimam.org = Mufti Ibrahim Desai
albalagh.net = Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani
detailed answers by both of the above respectable personalities would be more than enough to understand the case why its wajib and not just sunnah. however, its for those who are willing to understand and are not here only to argue and disagree…
PS: specially read the last 3 headings of the first link (albalagh)
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
[
Reading your links above. Its should be borne in mind that keeping a beard is not practically feasible for many muslim men in this time and especially in the west.
Therer are differances between ‘wajib’ and ‘farz’, the same way there is differerance between mustab and sunnah or sunnah-gher mukida and sunah-e-mukida.
The most important things are mentioned in the Koran, and the beard as not been emphazied in it.
From my learning, ‘wajib’ is somthing you should do and ‘farz’ is somthing that you must. Islam is not made to be a burden on people, but says to try your best. Deen is not meant to be a burden.
From my learning, Other things that are ‘wajib’ are also for example praying each prayer in the jamaat. Because similar to the ‘beard’ hadiths there are many which emphazise the importance of praying in congregration.
The Prophet (pbuh) emphazied this to the extent, that in a popular hadith (which i sure all the insighted people here know of), is where he stated ‘that he would wish to burn the huts of the sahabies that do not listen to him to pray in congregration’. So here we can similarly deduce that every single one of us has a ‘wajib’ to pray in congregration. None of us praay 5 times on congregration, so does this mean we are all sinners?
To elaborate, my teaching tells me that Islam is a not a constricting religion but rather one that allows room for manoevere according to circumstances, and that anything being sunnah or wajibhat encompases this aspect where people unlike farz, would have facility for personal chocie and discretion to do as much as they are able of the rest.
to further elborate:
People have to understand the enviroment and settings of todays time is vstly different to that of 1400 years ago.
Im not sying this in a disrespectful way, but quite literally people of 1400 years ago literally had nothing to as close to do compared to the demands and stresses on people of modern life people The people did not have as many duties or binding activities as todays people have. So these people had more time ad energy to perfect thier deen. In contrast people have so many things to do today, so its not easy beacsue of the change in envroment and setting for people to keep up as well with deen as before.
From my learning, it is only the ‘farz’ acts that have no excuses to be neglectful of and the wajibhat or sunnah are ones that one should try to do but are not important or binding as the farz.
Furthermore, In the same context as of th beard, numerous other wajibhat things can be brought up that many of us are not practising, does that mean that we are all sinners for not being able to be perfect?
Allah is understanding of peoples circumstances and I think although people is storngy recomndend to follow a wajibhaat, they are not damned if he cannot follow it or only some of it.
Elaborating on the current practicality of the beard: People should see things with a broadmind, and understand its more diffcult for people in the west to adopt a beard. Cultural norm of the west is to be beardless. Going agsint cultural or society norms brings difficulty. Furthermore, the dress and apperance code for 99% of jobs in the west require a presentleble apperance which is defned as being facially clean and neat or a trimmed and neat facial haired appearance- in other words to westerners a big beard or as they would deem a bush of hair on your face is unpresentlble…thereby such a get-ups greatly reduce career and job oppurtunities- especially if you have studied so hard all your life to get a good job or career. one has to adapt to to an extent to the enviroment they are living in.
And nobody can be perfect, it should be reminded that any halal activity is also a form of worship…so if a man is clean shaven but he is working fulltime and honestly then that is also worship and he is earning great sawaab for that.
I just wish Molvi people would understand these things. And another thing is that i wouldnt support any brothert to adpt the beard, if thier inside is not reformed to an adequate level or if they are not furfilling thier more obligations of like namaz, roza, duties to parents etc.
A person who does not amend the inner self first is like a hypocrite. If a man is to take on a beard and to let be known that he is a muslim- then if should first ensure that is his heart and behavior is true representatives of a muslim . Because if they are not, then the same person doing normal/bad things is just making a bad name for Islam.
It a responsibility adopting a beard. A beard in the current era is more distinguishing. One shoudnt just grow it because he saw someone else with it.
Ofcourse It is the sunnah/wajibhat of the Prophet to adopt the beard.
But people are put off from it because of the many negative actions of bearded people and concurrent negative impressions sent around. So many bearded people are the doing the bad things- and this just puts you off from wanting to look like them or be like a molvi. When these type of ‘brothers’ come and tell you to adopt the beard this and that–it just sounds so hypocritacal.
So many ‘brothers’ come to me and tell me to adopt the beard like them. And very honestly for each and every one of them i have like 100 things to reveal to them which are more important for them to focus on than keeping that beard and instructing others to.
I wish more important thing than the beard were emphazied by people. Lots of people are missing out of FARZ acts, an i never seen people teaching the virtues and importances of adhering to these.
And i think its the omission of the FARZ acts which is the bigger problem of the umma today. for example Ive never seen anyone on gupshup preaching people abou the virtues and importance of namaz-considering that 80% of us muslims dont pray enough.
–Once people start focusing on farzs, the sunnah and other come thier self.
Back on the beard, Its like many bearded people out there have a sort of inssecurity or somthing…because they keep a beard they need other males to keep beards.
human beings have biological senses, they have bilogically settings to feel pleased on seeing beauty and displeased on seeing uglyness.
If a lady does find a beard does not suit her husband and she feels very displeased for it, then from the mutual understanding and comprimising aspect a marriage is meant to have, she can ask for him to alter it.
when changing yourself means others are affected, its not purely a personal choice.
Besides;How would any man like for his wife to neglect beauty. How would he like it if he comes in one day to notice she hasnt done her normal grooming, which she does not out of obligation but just to please her husband, having awkward hairs and spot or colours growing out of places. If she also let her ‘normal’ natural be consistantly, with out sensitivity to others, i doubt, because of the nature of man, that he would be pleased with her for long.
And you cant force yourself to be pleased with someone. If I or anyone else looks unattractive for any reason, I cannot force or maniuplate somone to think i am attractive.](“http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6895&act=view”)
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
[quote=“Nutwer, post:34, topic:234793”]
[
I highly disagree with the bolded part. It is not as hard to keep a beard in western civilization as you think it is. Who said that you need to have a fist length of beard? Keep a beard, keep it trimmed and good looking. Who said that the beard has to look nasty?
as for fard and wajib, there are fiqhi differences and I think you shouldn’t preach about the differences until you know the fiqh and the usool ul fiqh. Many scholars say that fard = wajib.
Also, it depends on your taqwa and emaan as well. When you believe and truly believe that Allah is above all things, you (or your wife) won’t have a problem with something as simple as a beard.](“http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6895&act=view”)
Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard
Pataka.
I think there is a slight misundersdtanding. I think short and neat beards are ok, infact they can be presentable, and they do not pose significcant problme if any towards getting a job.
I was actually psoting from the perpective of the links 'Aceones' stated which is stating that beardfs must be fist lentgh or over otherwise the beard is unacceptleble.
Alright, maybe 'unfeasible' was not the best of words, but what i meant ws that the western culture does not except the 'big' beards and its difficult to obtain a a good job or career supporting a big beard get-up.
Also i was not preaching about the differances. I always mentioned 'from my learnning' wherever i made a religious statement. And its also clear where I am speaking from personal opinion.
You yourself implied that there are schools/scholars that
do differetiate between wajib and farz. Yes, Islam allows differances of opinion. And logically speaking, there would be some differance between the two otherwise why would there be two words with the same meaning.
Im just saying if somebody wants to keep a beard then keep it. But you cant expect other people to not be affected by it or worse forcing them not feel or to have personal thoughts about the change.