Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard

[Aceones]

Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard

[quote=“Nutwer, post:34, topic:234793”]

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as for this quoted part, its the lamest of all the excuses…

and yes, also remember that nobody is trying to force anything… i did is mentioned something very basic, explained directly by ulema karam, in easy words, with all the due references one can ask for…

and when you said in your above post that its upto someone to practice it or not, then yes you are right its upto someone. at the end of the day, we all will be punished or rewarded based on what we all did on your own free will, not because we were forced to do something…](“http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6895&act=view”)

[Aceones]

Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard

From my learning, it is only the 'farz' acts that have no excuses to be neglectful of and the wajibhat or sunnah are ones that one should try to do but are not important or binding as the farz. Furthermore, In the same context as of th beard, numerous other wajibhat things can be brought up that many of us are not practising, does that mean that we are all sinners for not being able to be perfect?

i think you need to refresh and revise your learning when you say wajib is not important...
and of course there are many other wajibat which we tend to either miss because of lack of knowledge or do not perform because of our ignorance, for that we all are liable to answer. but understand that topic at hand here is beard that is why we are not discussing all other wajibat.

faraez do have their own importance and they are mandatory, and should be performed no matter what, as long as we are forcefully stopped from doing that. but that does not by any means reduces the importance of wajibat (and sunnah for that matter). we are not supposed to neglect a wajib just saying its not farz, and its not practical these days specially in west or any other lame excuse... its just not right, is it?

and please do not twist words to justify our lack of practice by saying we cannot be perfect. and also remember that there is a difference in "not being able be perfect" and "ignoring something after you know the truth"

[Nutwer]

Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard

^ Dont agree dude, to some of your statements. Will get back in detail later.

what ill comment on for now is on your statement 'there is a differance in not being able to be perfect and ignoring somthing when you know the truth'.

For this; 'ignoring somthing after you know the truth' can still come into the category of not being able to be perfect. For example you have yourself stated that praying in congregration is wajib but we falter in it. So it, similarly this implies that after you know the truth of wajobat of praying in congregration, you ignore it? So you imply your a sinner? Or would you imply that that something unfeasible for you and comes into the category of not being able to achive perfection and that you would not be condemned for it because of the understanding nature of Allah.
Do you remember the hadith where the Propeht said 'you can never achive perfection in deen'?...

I already admitted that my earlier statement of 'beard being practically unfeasible in the west' was not the ideal way to put it. I will re-phrase this in next post.

Before leaving, ill just summarise the view of the oppostion here. Not to be rude- but this is the only simple and obvious way to addres this issue now:
Being frank, Some people just do not like a big bush hanging on their face, it doesnt look good on them, it distorts thier appearance and it makes them look ugly. And the onlooker like a wife or mother concurantly feel displeased having to look at that, the same way one could feel displeased looking at any other nasty/ungoodlooking thing, and everyone wants thier husband/son/children to look beautiful. Thats why they disprefer the beard.
Its not mocking the sunnah or people with beards. Its about personal choice and personal appearance.
People like the Prophet (pbuh) and sahabis were the best of nations. Nothing looked ugly on the Prophet or the sahabies.

Anyway bro- i get back with some refs and fuller answer to your reply later today.

[Nutwer]

Re: Wives warning / threatening their husbands not to keep a beard

@Aceones

having read the links above, i would not someone to again say that “because beard is not mentioned in Quran, its not wajib”. the explanation in the mentioned urls is very easy to understand and its not ambiguous at all, can be understood very easily. also there is no point of confusing wajib with farz or sunnah and i think when we discuss such matters in detail, we all understand the differences among these terms.

I never commented on whether the beard is wajib. Yes, you churned out few URL’S, in support of your opinion that beard is wajib and it is haram to shave it. Infact the link you quoted also goes on to imply that a beard less than fist lentgh is also unacceptble.
Before i reply to this, i would like to remind of the differance of opinion in islam. So while you have some scholars saying the above very strictly, below is a link from the recognised islamic website sunni path on beards that concludes that under the shafi school the beard is recommended and to shave it is just disliked as opposed to being haram. So under this ruling/opinion that people who keep short beards or shave are are doing something only markruh.
So From this link we i can support my earlier statment that keeping the beard is not a farz and and the omission of which would not anyone cause anyone to be a sinner.

http://search.sunnipath.com/search.php?start=0&end=10&q=beard](http://search.sunnipath.com/search.php?start=0&end=10&q=beard)

The Ruling of Shaving and Shortening the Beard in the Shafi`i School

all it takes is the willingness to learn, and of course no one can give hidayah, but ALLAH :SWT: anyways i did my part… its upto you to agree and accept, or disagree and reject.

Bro- ive read your links to learn, now you read mine. Its not just about agreeing and disagreeing, its about opinion. I do not assert that that the beard is not a beloved sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) and that it is strongly recommended to people. All i say is that it is that some people feel very uncomfortable or ar unable with it and do not want to keep it. And that the beard being a non-farz does not make it binding or sinful makes it easier for such people to omit it to thier ease.

as for this quoted part, its the lamest of all the excuses…

I agree the wording wasnot right, but the implication is not lame. Frankly, Dude which century do you live in? Do you know what the first thing is your interviewer notices about your when you go for a high profile job interview? YOUR APPEARANCE. and big beards are out of the ‘smart category’ of western employment.
Looking at the empirical evidence, how many ‘greater than fistful length’ bearded muslim men do we see in a city workplace? 1 out of 100, out of 1000, 1 out of 10000?
You have to admit my friend, that going along with a hugh beard and getting a good job is difficult. Bearing this, most people would rather shave somthing that is getting in the way of job or oppurtunity they have worked so hard all thier life and in order to feed thier family to get rather than sitting at home on goverment handouts (which unfortunatly a significant amount of our ‘deeni’ brothers are doing now a days).

and yes, also remember that nobody is trying to force anything… i did is mentioned something very basic, explained directly by ulema karam, in easy words, with all the due references one can ask for…

I was not referiing to yourself when i stated people are being forced. I was referring to STP brother who seemed to be very relucatant to in accepting other peoples views.

and when you said in your above post that its upto someone to practice it or not, then yes you are right its upto someone. at the end of the day, we all will be punished or rewarded based on what we all did on your own free will, not because we were forced to do something…

Thats right. Allah says knows who has tried thier best with respect to thier situation and capability.

@Aceones

i think you need to refresh and revise your learning when you say wajib is not important…
and of course there are many other wajibat which we tend to either miss because of lack of knowledge or do not perform because of our ignorance, for that we all are liable to answer. but understand that topic at hand here is beard that is why we are not discussing all other wajibat.

I didnt say wajibat is not important. I say sunnah and wajibat are not as important as farz acts. I would still assert that there are many many other wahjibats and suunahs ins the relgion, and no normal perosn who has balance of deen and duniya can perform all of even most of them.Nabi Pak did assert ‘that none of you can be perfect’ and i think this is also clearly applicable to being unable to do absolutly everything as he did.
For example, i think you admit that in the modern era it is almost impossible for a man to pray 5 times in congrgration for many reasons. I belive Allah is merciful and this could bea reason why congrgration prayer was not Farz. Regarding this i have spoken to various scholrs, and they stated that congrgrationla prayer is a ‘strong recommendation’, and it is he who has idle time or he who never prays in the mosque who is the sinner.

faraez do have their own importance and they are mandatory, and should be performed no matter what, as long as we are forcefully stopped from doing that. but that does not by any means reduces the importance of wajibat (and sunnah for that matter). we are not supposed to neglect a wajib just saying its not farz, and its not practical these days specially in west or any other lame excuse… its just not right, is it?

I didnt pronounce to robustly neglect a wajib or sunnah. Both things are important and of major sawaab. What I am asserting is that not all sunnahs and wajibaats are easy for people to practice with respect to thier personal situations and choice, and if some people have not got the time, energy or facility to do everything then they have to prioritise. The priority is the Farz. You must understand brother that todays era differs considerably from the previous era.
1400 years ago, people literally had nothing to do… it is commonly known because of thier non-preoccupation that spent thier time on creating and devlopig poetry-which they became to excel at. Infcat poetry became so promiment in thier daily communication and life, that Allah chose to reveal the koran with a poetic aspect.
I wish people would understand, that 1400 years ago people just had more time to practice and devote to deen than the people of today. Not to say that deen is unimportant in any sense. The point is to assert that there today there are many other important things that people have to handle, and if this is situation then one should prioritise what wordly and deeni things they can honour instead of burdening and overloading themself.

and please do not twist words to justify our lack of practice by saying we cannot be perfect. and also remember that there is a difference in “not being able be perfect” and “ignoring something after you know the truth”

Indeed we are all small and so are our deeds infront of God. Though i still assert the same.
People came on this thread almost with vendetta to convince people to love/like/accept beards.
I am just speaking from a much broader picture, in the respect that there are many things in islam that one could similarly do as to keep a beard. Allah says try your best. And the beard could be for some or many people today and because of the current culture that is inconvinient or difficult to incoporate. I belive for reason i stated before that having a beardisnt just a physcial act, but a very big responsibility of the muslim who adopts it. Bro STP also asserted in one of his posts that adapting a beard isnt an easy task.
Its not about ‘ignoring the truth’. If anyone wants to keep a beard, and it is a major sawaab, i think they could keep it as long as it doesnt interfere with more important things.
But if one does keep a bigger than fist size it and it does very much unsuit you, then the critical comments should also be normal to expect.

Finally, I do agree that the importance of the beard is more than just a sunnath and is somthing which is strongly recommnded in islam, and carries major sawaab. Although i disagree, with relation to provided links, that to or trim or shave it is haram.