Wisdom of Imam Ali (A.S.)

Society Religion & Philosophy
81

Before you cry "wahabi," here are some verses:

Surah 17(Al-Isra)-Verse# 93-95, 105.

    1. Or you have a house of ornament* or you ascend into the sky. And [even then], we will not belive in your ascension until you bring down to us a book we may read." Say, "Exalted is my lord! *Was I ever but a human messenger?"*
    1. *And what prevented the people from believing when guidence came to them except that they said, *"Has Allah sent a human messenger?" **

Maybe you need that "supernatural" feeling that Prophet was not human/Man and that makes you believe in him just like people in the pre-islamic/Jahiliyaa days! Off course, ignoring the verses in quran proving that he was a man, a messenger of Allah sent to HUMANs!

  • 95. Say, *"if there were upon the earth *angels walking securely , *we would have sent down to them from the heaven an angel [as a] messenger." **

Surah 21(Al-Anbiya)-Verse# 8.

  • 08. And we did not make them * forms* not eating food [like angels. * Rather, *they were human beings with human attributes], nor were they immortal[on earth].*

Surah 19(Maryam)-Verse# 41.

  • 41. And mention in the Book [the story of] Abraham. Indeed, he was a *man of truth and a prophet.*

Last but not least:

Surah 25(Al-Furqan)-Verse# 7-9, 20-12, 56.

    1. And they say, "What is this messenger that eats food and walks in the markets? Why was there not sent down to him an angel so he would be with him a warner?
    1. Or [why is not] a treasure presented to him [from heaven], or does he [not] have a garden from which he eats?" And the wrongdoers say, "You follow not but a man affected by magic."
    1. Look how hey strike for you comparisons [From their own imaginations in order to deny and discredit you.]; but they have strayed, so they cannot [find] a way.
    1. And we have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a bringer of a good tidings and a warner.***
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Its our belief that Rasool-Allah was made of the noor of Allah. Shiekh Nur Keller has a lovely talk on this issue.

83

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mo_best: *
Its our belief that Rasool-Allah was made of the noor of Allah. Shiekh Nur Keller has a lovely talk on this issue.
[/QUOTE]

You are free to have your own beliefs, you are free to have beliefs which contradict Quran. ;) You are free to ignore verses posted above from Quran and continue to hang on to lecture some "scholar" gave.

He was a noor, in the sense that he was perfect. He was beacon of LIGHT to all mankind, as it is in Quran. He was the guiding LIGHT which we all should follow.... If you believe he was NOOR (light) literally then you are wrong. He was A MAN as ALLAH says so in QURAN. If he was made from Allah's light then Allah would have said so! If you didn't know, Angels were also made from light. Prophet was not an angel. He was a MAN/HUMAN BEING.

84

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sherrybaba: *

Well as far Prophet Ibrahims father being an idolator, is not for sure.

We believe that Azhar was not his biological father. Hazrat Ibrahim was the son of Tarak. This is has been confirmend by some sunni histortians
[/quote]

The fact that his name might have been Tarakh does not preclude Azar from also being his name or a title of his. In other words, both Tarakh and Azar could refer to one and the same person. See comments below on the two references you cited.

**
[quote]
"Ibrahim ( as ) was the son of Tarakh. When Tarakh was 75 years of age, Ibrahim ( as ) was born to him".

Sunni reference: al-Bidaya wan Nahaya, by Ibn Katheer, v 1 p 139**
[/quote]

Not quite. Ibn Kathir (d. 774H) in his famous Qur'an commentary, Tafsir Qur'an al-'Adhim, whilst commenting on the verse "Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error." (6:74) agrees with at-Tabari (see below) that Prophet Ibrahim's (as) father's name was indeed Azar. He also quotes some earlier authorities who said that Azar was the name of the idol that Ibrahim's father looked after (and so this name came to be applied to him due to his association with that idol).

**
[quote]
also do check out

History of al-Tabari, v 1 p 119
- Tafsir Tabari, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v 7 p 158**
[/QUOTE]

Likewise, at-Tabari (d. 310H) in his own Qur'an commentary concludes his discussion on this point by saying:

"The first of these statements is the more correct in my view - the statement of those who say that it (Azar) is the name of his father. This is because Allah Most High has told us that he is his father... And if someone were to say: 'The genealogists have ascribed Ibrahim to Tarakh, so how can his name be Azar when it is known that his name was Tarakh?' It would be said to him (in reply): It is not improbable that he had two names as is the case with many in our own time and with those of the past. And it is possible that (Azar) was his agnomen (or nickname, surname or title). And Allah knows best."

Al-Suyuti (d. 911H) in his commentary, Tafsir Jalalayn, also says that Azar was his agnomen (or nickname, surname or title) whilst his own name was Tarakh.

In the abridgment of al-Shawkani's (d. 1250H) Tafsir, Fath al-Qadir, it says: "It is said that the name of Ibrahim's father was Tarakh. And it is said that he had two names: Azar and Tarakh."

Allah knows best.

Iqbal

85

RG,

Out of interest what scholars to you follow if Shiekh Hamza and Shiekh Nur are somehow inefficient?

86

Just a question. Why is there so much fighting when the words Ali, Usman, Umer and the gang are uttered? It seems almost silly to fight over people when the whole muslim world is crashing down around our ears........

87

:k:

88

Islam is crashing down only because of Wahabhism, the radical idealogy that teaches hatred and nothingelse.

89

Yeah, those baaaaad bad baaaaaaaaaaaadhhhhhh wahabis, “british agents,” :hehe: we also should not forget the AssAssins, the Agha Khanis/Ismaelis who went around killing Islamic scholars for non-muslims, and some early jewish converts to Shiaism some even called Hazrat Ali a Messenger of Allah and God! How stupid!

Lets see you post some facts, proofs, other than just blabbering about the “badddddddddddd wahabis.” Its easy to criticise someone else when you don’t have the courage to face your self and your ill doings not to mention ill beliefs!

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I thought you said you were not Wahabhi, and you also said that there is nothing as such as "Wahabhi".

Then why do you start getting awfuly apprehensive as soon as any1 criticizes Wahabhism. Worried so much abt something "non-existent", Mr Rangeela.

:)

91

Really, I said that? I only have 146 replies, care to show me where did I say that? Shouldn’t be hard for you to find. :hehe:

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Musa (AS) came with Allah's message to this world. Musa (AS) asked his people to believe in 1 God (Allah) and the Last Day [just like Prophet (SAWS) did] But Musa (AS) was not a Muslim. The reason is that at that time, the word "ISLAM and MUSLIM" was not used. The people who followed Musa (AS) were called Jews not Muslims(in the Taurah, the followers of Musa (AS) are referred to as Jews). These jews were not the jews we have nowadays. Those jews belived in 1 God (ALLAH) and the Last day. But when Musa (AS) died, the people changed the Taurah according to their own will. The jews we see nowadays follow this, tampered Taurah, but they are still called jews. So Allah sent, Isa (AS). Isa (AS) came with the same message too. Worship only 1 God and believe in the Last Day. But even his people were not called Muslims, because the word Muslims was not introduced at that time. His followers were called BANI ISRAEL. When Isa (AS) died the Bani Israel (christians) changed the Injeel according to their own needs. The Christians we see nowadays follow this Changed Injeel (Bible). So if I say that The Jews and The Christians who believed in the original message revealed to them will go to Paradise, I am not wrong. Now you will say that how can a Jew or Christian go to Paradise. The cocept that has to be cleared is that Musa (AS) did not preach or practise what the Jews follow nowadays. He practised the real Taurah. He worshipped 1 God and beleived in the Last Day (what the muslims believe now). So now the Muslims call him a Muslim. But at that time the word Muslim was not introduced. So you can call him a True Jew(the one who believes in the original untampered message of worshipping 1 God and believing in Akhirah). Similarly the Isa (AS) and his followers who belived in the real untampered Injeel are called Muslims by some of the Muslims today. But again, at that time the word Muslim was never used so you can call him a True Christian or a Real Christian (the one who believes in the original untampered message of worshipping one God and believing in the Last Day). All the Muslims accept that Jewism and Christianity were the correct religions before they were tampered with. So all the Jews who followed in the original, unchanged Taurah will go to Paradise. They are still Jews but they are REAL JEWS. Similarly, all the Christians who followed the original unchanged Injeel will go to Paradise but they are still Christians, REAL CHRISTIANS. So when the people in this board say that Musa (AS) was a Muslim they mean he was a Real Jew. Same goes with Isa (AS). But what about the people who were born after the Injeel was changed. They could never be Real Christians because they didn't have the original unchanged Injeel.Can they never go to Paradise? Sure they can, because then Allah sent Prophet (SAWS) for their guidance. The Quarn uses the word Muslims to describe the one who worships 1 God (Allah) and the one who believes in Akhirah (which is what Musa(AS) and ISA(AS) did). But thats not all. A Muslim also believes in in Risalah, and that Prophet(saws) is the last Prophet. The other Prophets before Muhammad(SAWS) knew that a person would come as the final Prophet. They believed in Prophet (SAWS) but they couldn't claim that Muhammad(SAWS) is the last Prophet because Muhammad(SAWS) was not born at that time. How can a person say that Muhammad(SAWS) IS(stress on is) the last Messenger when Muhammad(SAWS) had not even been born. That is why all the previous Prophets are considered as Prophets for their own times. At that time the kalimah was la ilaha illallah (there is no god but but Allah). But since the time of Prophet (SAWS) the kalimah is LA ILAHA ILLALLAH, MUHAMMAD UR RASOOL ALLAH.(there is no God but Allah and Muhammad(SAWS) is the messenger of Allah) This is why Prophet(SAWS) is considered to be a Prophet for all times.

93

Prophet(SAWS) was not chosen to be a Prophet at the time of his birth. He was chosen to be a Prophet even before his birth. Allah mentioned signs in the past Books to all Prophets, that a person named Ahmed will come. So Muhammad(SAWS) was chosen as a Prophet even before he was born. Most of you might have heard of the Prophet's(SAWS) trip to Syria with Abu Talib. At that time the first revelation was not revealed to Muhammad(SAWS). Bahira the monk saw signs of Prophethood in Muhammad(SAWS) even before Allah revealed the first revelation to him. This proves that Muhammad(SAWS) was chosen to be a Prophet even before he got the first revelation. Now the question comes that if the first revelation was revealed when Muhammad(SAWS) was 40 years of age. Was he a Muslim before he got the revelation. No he was not, because the word Islam and Muslim was introduced to him at the age of 40 (when the first revelation was revealed). So he couldn't have been a Muslim before he got the first revelation. (Don't start abusing me, read on). How can someone be a Muslim before he doesn't even know what Islam means. Some one on this board said that Muhammad (SAWS) used to worship Allah in cave Hira before the first revelation was revealed to him. Ok that guy might have made a mistake. He is a human. Thing that shocked me was that no one corrected the guy. Allah told Prophet(SAWS) how to worship Him (salah) after He revealed His first revelation. How could the Prophet(SAWS) worship Allah before he even knew how to worship ALLAH? In the past 17 years of my life, I have read around 20-25 books on the Seerah of Prophet(SAWS). Not even a single book said that Prophet(SAWS) worshipped Allah in cave Hira. The word used by every book is, "MEDITATE". Prophet(SAWS) used to meditate in cave Hira. He tried to find out who the real god was. Once, while MEDITATING (not worshipping) he heard a voice [of Jibrail (AS)] which asked him to "READ". And i think you know what happened after that(I won't go into the details). In short, NO PROPHET PREACHED OR PRACTISED HIS RELIGION BEFORE HE GOT THE REVELATION FROM ALLAH. Musa(AS) got his first revelation when he came close to The Fire, before that he was not a TRUE JEW. It was after Allah told him to worship only Him, that he became a TRUE JEW. Before that, he didn't know what or who Allah was. Ibrahim(AS) didnot practice his religion before Allah revealed to him, the first revelation. This is because the Prophets didn't even know how to practice their religion before Allah told them how. It was after the first, revelation of Allah that every Prophet started preaching and practicing their religions. Muhammad(SAWS) was no exception. Although, even before the revelation, Muhammad(SAWS) was given the title "the truthful and the trustworthy."

94

This is what I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

95

No , you are very correct, now get ready for blasphemy conviction!

96

Make your 147th post a confession by admitting you are a Wahabhi. Should be hard for you, should it? :hehe:

We are making progress here, aren’t we Sheraz. :slight_smile:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Axiom: *
This is what I think. Correct me if I am wrong.
[/QUOTE]

Well...I guess you're right but MY FRIEND you have jumped in a big fire so I'll pray for ya!! :D

98

Its not a question of stepping in fire. If I have some missconceptions about Islam then they should be cleared. And this is the best place to clear them up. It makes sense to me. Who knows, some one might prove me wrong. Its better than living with wrong concepts about Islam.

and "analyze it", why don't you tell me what religion you follow? I'm asking the third time. (Are you ashamed of telling someone about your religion)

99

You really like putting words in other people mouth don’t you?

You accused me of saying something when I never said anything about that… care to show me WHERE I said it?

Is sheraz your other ID or something? Where is he btw? Can’t answer some tough questions about your own beliefs I guess but never be ashamed to accuse others of something that they have never said a thing about!

100

The main difference between the shia and the sunni is what we think of Prophet and His Holy Ahlebait...We follow His noble Family after Him Like He told the Muslims to.. and you follow Hanafi, Malaki, Shafi, wahab etc...did you not read the following verse from Quran:

"Allah wishes to remove all impurity from you, O members of the household, and to purify you completely." 33:33 Holy Quran

Who is the family of Prophet?:

Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 5955:
'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

then you bring up irrelevent verses from Quran re: dead people..there is a difference between us and Prophet and His Family..we are mistake prone gunehgaar people..so please dont compare ordinary human beings with Prophet and His Holy Family...

if Prophet was dead then why would Allah want us to send Salaam over him?

"Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect." (Qur'an 33:56)

I see in another thread you wrote that shias ask help from the dead/graves....
A Great scholer Sultanu'l-Wa'izin Shirazi said regarding that:

You ask why the Shia seek help at the tombs of the Imams. Perhaps, you believe that there is no life after death and say, "What is dead is annihilated." Allah describes in the Holy Qur'an this mistaken point of view, saying: "There is naught but our life in this world; we die and we live and we shall not be raised again." (23:37) As you all know, those who believe in Allah know that there is life after death. When a man dies, his body becomes lifeless, but, unlike the animals, his soul and sense of speech remain with similar, but purer bodies, and will be blessed or chastised in the transitory state (barzakh) or purgatory.

Martyrs and those killed in the way of Allah enjoy special blessings. This has been narrated in the Holy Qur'an. "And reckon not that those who are killed in Allah's way to be dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided with sustenance from their Lord, rejoicing in what Allah has given them of His grace, and they rejoice for the same of those who, (being left) behind them, have not yet joined them, that they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve." (3:169-170) I focus on the words, "They are alive (and) are provided with sustenance from their Lord...." (3:169) They reply to us, but since our hearing is blocked by the veils of the material world, we do not hear their voices. Accordingly, in the salutation (ziarat) to Imam Husain, we say, "I bear witness that you hear what I say and that you reply." Have you read sermon No. 85 of Nahju'l-Balagha? The progeny of the Prophet are introduced as follows: "O, people, this is a saying of the Prophet: 'He who dies from among us is not dead, and he who decays (after dying) from among us does not really decay.'" (Nahju'l-Balagha, English translation, Volume 1, page 130, published by Peer Muhammad Ebrahim Trust, Karachi.) That is, in the realm of light and spirituality, the Ahle Bait live and remain imperishable.