Wisdom of Imam Ali (A.S.)

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Here is what some of the prominent Muslims aalims have to say about this:

Imam Ibn Qudamah Hanbali
“Stand beside the tomb of the Prophet (s), and say: I have come to you for forgiveness of my sins and to seek your intercession with Allah”

Reference:. Al-Mughni ma' al-Sharh, vol. 3, p. 588; al-Sharh al-Kabir ma' al-Mughni, vol. 3, p. 494.

Imam Ghazzali

“It is recommended the pilgrim should go daily to the Baqi' Cemetery and after saluting the Prophet (s), make pilgrimage to the tombs of (Imam) Hasan ibn 'Ali, (Imam) 'Ali ibn al-Husayn, (Imam) Muhammad ibn 'Ali and (Imam) Ja'far ibn Muhammad (Allah be pleased with them), and also perform the Salat in the Mosque of Fatimah (Allah be pleased with her).”

Reference: Abu Hamid Muhammad al-Ghazzali', Ihya' 'Ulum al-Din, vol. 1, pp. 258-261.

The famous Sunni scholar of India, Shaykh Khalil Ahmad

“Tawassul to the Prophets, saints, pious persons, martyrs and the righteous during supplications, whether in their lifetime or after their death, is permissible. In our opinion and that of our teachers, pilgrimage to the shrine of the Master of Messengers (my soul be sacrificed for him) is the most exalted of proximities, the most important of blessings, and the greatest of means (wasilah) for attaining lofty ranks.
Reference: Shaykh Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri, 'Aqa'id Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah fi radd al-Wahhabiyyah wa al-Bid'ah, translated into Persian by 'Abd al-Rahman Sarbazi, p. 86.

Opposition
In the opinion of the founder of the Wahhabi sect, Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, and other like-minded 'ulama' of the past, it is permissible to seek help from fellow humans, as during wars and other affairs, if the person or the group who is being asked or entreated has the power and ability to help but asking the deceased for help is not permissionable.
Reference: Nida'-i Wahdat, Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab's treatise to Shaykh Ja'far Najafi.

Let me also quote this Hadith from the most authentic Islamic book, the Sahi Bukhari.

HADITH
After the Battle of Badr the Prophet (s) stood near the well of the same name and addressed the dead with ayah 46 of Surah al-A'raf. When some of his companions objected that how could the dead hear him, the Prophet (s) replied: "You are not more hearing than them.
Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, vol. 14, p. 111, Dar Ihya' al-Turath, Beirut; Sahih al-Muslim, chapter 51, pp. 76-77; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, vol. 1, p. 26 & vol. 2, pp. 31 & 131; Musnad Tiyalisi, hadith 403.

102

HADITH
After the Battle of Badr the Prophet (s) stood near the well of the same name and addressed the dead with ayah 46 of Surah al-A'raf. When some of his companions objected that how could the dead hear him, the Prophet (s) replied: "You are not more hearing than them.
Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, vol. 14, p. 111, Dar Ihya' al-Turath, Beirut; Sahih al-Muslim, chapter 51, pp. 76-77; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, vol. 1, p. 26 & vol. 2, pp. 31 & 131; Musnad Tiyalisi, hadith 403.

Excellent job sheraz , some ppl will stay stubborn.
So Rangeelay..you stil call them deceased?dun bring the logic of buried under the grave acha..give them some respect

103

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Axiom: *

and "analyze it", why don't you tell me what religion you follow? I'm asking the third time. (Are you ashamed of telling someone about your religion)
[/QUOTE]

_-----------------------------------------
When were the other two times you asked me about my religion? Please quote? Did you ask me under a different nick previously?? I follow only the good orders of all the religions.

104

I was going to ask you for website but isn’t google great?

I put this in: Sahih al-Bukhari, vol. 14, p. 111 and wahlaaaaaaaaaaa I get this:

http://www.al-islam.org/mot/tawassul.htm

A reference from SAHI bukhari NO where to be found BUT on a shia website. hahah! Fabrication? :rotfl: NIce try Mr. SherAss. (I told you I am not watcher, so I had to return the favor by inventing a name for your too.)

:nono:

105

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rangeela Guppy: *

You really like putting words in other people mouth don't you?

You accused me of saying something when I never said anything about that... care to show me WHERE I said it?

Is sheraz your other ID or something? Where is he btw? Can't answer some tough questions about your own beliefs I guess but never be ashamed to accuse others of something that they have never said a thing about!
[/QUOTE]

Yaar ab maan bhee lou na Rangeela putar!

Acha, answer this.

Why does everyone loathes to be called Wahabhi even when they are one?

106

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pathan Bhai: *

Yaar ab maan bhee lou na Rangeela putar!

Acha, answer this.

Why does everyone loathes to be called Wahabhi even when they are one?
[/QUOTE]

Before I answer your question, how about answering mine?

You accused me of saying that I said i'm "wahabi" and that I said there is no such thing as "wahabi" and I asked YOU to show me WHERE I said that lovely thing? Chalo pehley es baat ka saboot nikaloo phir koe aur baat ya jhoot create karna. ;) Don't ask sherAss for help. :D

107

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rangeela Guppy: *

take it easy sir :)

108

I asked you in "Offensive Jihad"

[QUOTE]
"AvgAmericanGirl" and "analyze it" which religion do you follow.(Just out of curiousity)
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
"AvgAmericanGirl and analyze it" I would still like to know what religion you both follow]
[/QUOTE]

Any way when you say you follow the good qualities in every religion then what do you do about God. I mean, take Islam, Hinduism and Christianity. Each of them have different concepts of God. Which one do you follow.

109

Another thing is the death of Abu Talib. When Abu Talib was about to die, Prophet(SAWS) asked him to say "la ilaha illallah Muhammad ur rasool Allah" but Abu Talib didn't. The companions of Prophet(SAWS) thought that just a second before dying Abu Talib said it. But Prophet(SAWS) said that Abu Talib din't say the kalimah when Prophet(SAWS) asked him so he was not a Muslim. All the people who say that Prophet's(SAWS) father and mother and grand father were Muslims just because Prophet(SAWS) was their son (and Abdul Mutallib's grandson) are also wrong. Take the example of Nuh(AS). His son didn't come on the boat with him. So you can't say that Nuh's(AS) son was a Muslim (or to be exact, a follower of the true message of his time). Nuh's (AS) son died as a non-Muslim.
Come on people, think before you post. Don't just blindly post wrong information about Islam. And if you can't answer a question then try to do some research over it rather than start abusing the person who asked it.

110

Of course we give salam and blessings to Muhammad (SAWS) and we respect all his companions. But we never say "O Prophet(SAWS) give me success in this life and in the life Here after"
All the Duas start with the word Rabbi or Rabbana. We ask God to give us succes in this life and in the life Hereafter.

"RABANA ATAINA FID DUNYA HASANA"

"RABBI ZIDNI ILMA"

"RABBANA AGFIRLANA"

"RABBANA WALA TUHAMMILNA MA LA TA KATALANI BIH"

"RABBANA WALA TAHMIL ALAINA ISRAN KAMA HAMAL TAHU ALAINA MIN KABLINA"

Asking from any one except Allah means associating partners with Allah. Which is Shirk. WE CAN PRAY FOR ANY ONE BUT WE PRAY TO ALLAH. (praying FOR someone is ok. We can pray FOR anyone. But praying TO anyone except Allah is shirk. We pray TO Allah FOR OTHERS.) Try to understand the difference between praying FOR and Praying TO. We pray TO none but Allah. But we pray FOR Prophet(SAWS).

111

axiom..Abu Talib is the person who protected Prophet from kaafirs..and you call him Kaafir? Abu Talib is the person who helped Prophet preach Islam and you call him kaafir? Abu Talib's SON Imam Ali was the first person at age 3 to say Mohummad un Rasool Allah and you call him kaafir

If i am a kaafir and i hate muslims would i let my three year old son join Islam and help Islam spread? man use some common sense..just because the families of ur other khalifas were kaafir, some people try really hard to make everyone else kaafir

112

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Axiom: *
Of course we give salam and blessings to Muhammad (SAWS) and we respect all his companions. But we never say "O Prophet(SAWS) give me success in this life and in the life Here after"
All the Duas start with the word Rabbi or Rabbana. We ask God to give us succes in this life and in the life Hereafter.

"RABANA ATAINA FID DUNYA HASANA"

"RABBI ZIDNI ILMA"

"RABBANA AGFIRLANA"

"RABBANA WALA TUHAMMILNA MA LA TA KATALANI BIH"

"RABBANA WALA TAHMIL ALAINA ISRAN KAMA HAMAL TAHU ALAINA MIN KABLINA"

Asking from any one except Allah means associating partners with Allah. Which is Shirk. WE CAN PRAY FOR ANY ONE BUT WE PRAY TO ALLAH. (praying FOR someone is ok. We can pray FOR anyone. But praying TO anyone except Allah is shirk. We pray TO Allah FOR OTHERS.) Try to understand the difference between praying FOR and Praying TO. We pray TO none but Allah. But we pray FOR Prophet(SAWS).
[/QUOTE]

would you kindly read the whole thread....i cant repeat myself 1000 times..thanks in advance

113

watcher boy i see you are taking it easy....you dont waste time reading your sahi books...seems like you have them memorized :)...just ignore everything I say from Quran and ur sahi books

p.s. i dont even need to bring anything from those contradicting Sahi books because i dont believe them to be authentic..how can anyone believe a book to be authentic when it says Prophet Moses was running naked after a stone because stone took His cloths.....i mean does that make sense?

i suggest you read Nahjul Balagha...it has sermons by Imam Ali...Imam Ali was with Prophet all His life and Abu Huraira was with Prophet for 2 years...please apni aankhain kholo

114

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
i suggest you read Nahjul Balagha...it has sermons by Imam Ali...Imam Ali was with Prophet all His life and Abu Huraira was with Prophet for 2 years...please apni aankhain kholo
[/QUOTE]

Sheraz, Is this available online? if so, please give URL...

Salaam

115

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm

Strongman check it out.

116

Sermon 126 (Nahjul Balagha) is particularly interesting:

"With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity."

Wonderful advice - do not go to extremes as regards Ali ibn Abi Talib, Allah be pleased with him. May Allah protect those who do not go to the excesses of the Shia in their near veneration of Ali and the excesses of the Khawarij in their hatred of him. And stick to the great majority. One doesn't have to be a mathematician to work out who the majority are in this day and age.

Iqbal

117

[QUOTE]
axiom..Abu Talib is the person who protected Prophet from kaafirs..and you call him Kaafir? Abu Talib is the person who helped Prophet preach Islam and you call him kaafir? Abu Talib's SON Imam Ali was the first person at age 3 to say Mohummad un Rasool Allah and you call him kaafir
[/QUOTE]

Did Abu Talib ever bear witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad(SAWS) is the last Messenger of Allah. Evgeryone knows that he helped Prophet(SAWS) at every step. But he was still not a Muslim. Ali (Raa) was Asadullah. But even this doesn't make Abu Talib a Muslim. He always suppoerted the Muslims due to his love for his nephew, Prophet(SAWS).

[QUOTE]
If i am a kaafir and i hate muslims would i let my three year old son join Islam and help Islam spread?
[/QUOTE]

Not really. But if your son stood up infront of all the kafir leaders when he was only ten years old and declared that he was a Muslim, without fearing any one of them, then you would. A person never becomes a Muslim until he says the Shahadah. It doesn't matter how nice he is to Muslims. If that is the case, then even Mother Terresa is a Muslim because she helped all the people (including Muslims). While in reality she was not. And Ali(RA) accepted Islam at the age of ten not three.

[QUOTE]
just because the families of ur other khalifas were kaafir, some people try really hard to make everyone else kaafir
[/QUOTE]

What do you mean "your other Khalifas". All the khlifas were meant to be for all the Muslims. Theres no question of saying that, "This is my Khalifa, and this is your Khalifa" All the khalifas are mine and all the Khalifas are yours too. We are supposed to follow all of them (or if not all then atleast all four of the pious khalifas.)

118

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
watcher boy i see you are taking it easy....you dont waste time reading your sahi books...seems like you have them memorized :)...just ignore everything I say from Quran and ur sahi books

p.s. i dont even need to bring anything from those contradicting Sahi books because i dont believe them to be authentic..how can anyone believe a book to be authentic when it says Prophet Moses was running naked after a stone because stone took His cloths.....i mean does that make sense?

i suggest you read Nahjul Balagha...it has sermons by Imam Ali...Imam Ali was with Prophet all His life and Abu Huraira was with Prophet for 2 years...please apni aankhain kholo
[/QUOTE]

You are bringing "hadiths" from sahi bukhari that are only found on shi'T'e websites... if they were not fabricated they would be found all over the web including sunni websites!!!

All you are doing is copying and pasting it from that al-islam.org site that has article on twassul. Big deal! You can't even write on your own and when someone like me searches on the references you give it only referes me to a shi'T'e site and nothing else. Bring me real hadiths from my sources and then we can talk if you bring lies and fabrications, that only serves your purposes not mine which is to discuss everything on basis of facts and truth based on TRUE and actual REFERENCES unlike you who quotes nothing but fabricated hadiths just to prove something you don't have aclue about! Good going oh dear Mr SheAss knower of all islamic knowledge and man of great wisdom! You proved once again you are nothing but an ignorant shi't'e with limited intellectual ability!

119

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *

**"Allah wishes to remove all impurity from you, O members of the household, and to purify you completely." 33:33 Holy Quran

Who is the family of Prophet?:**
[/quote]

The Prophet's (s) family includes his beloved wives as v.32 of the above mentioned Surah tells us.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *

if Prophet was dead then why would Allah want us to send Salaam over him?
[/quote]

Because Allah appoints Angels to convey our salam to him, not that he (s) hears the salam directly.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *

**Let me also quote this Hadith from the most authentic Islamic book, the Sahi Bukhari.

HADITH
After the Battle of Badr the Prophet (s) stood near the well of the same name and addressed the dead with ayah 46 of Surah al-A'raf. When some of his companions objected that how could the dead hear him, the Prophet (s) replied: "You are not more hearing than them." **
[/quote]

There's no contradiction between this hadith and the Qur'anic verse {... you cannot make to hear those who are in graves} (35:22) and {Verily, you cannot make the dead to hear nor can you make the deaf to hear the call, when they flee, turning their backs.} (27:80, 30:52). Consider the following:

  1. It's clear from the hadith that the Companions wondered at the ability of the dead to hear. It is natural to expect that their understanding was based on the Qur'an, such as verse 35:22, and what the Prophet (s) himself had taught them. Namely, that the general rule is that the dead do not hear.

  2. After citing the hadith, Bukhari (5:314) records an explanatory note from Qatada (d. 118H) who said: "Allah brought them to life to let them hear him..." So ordinarily they could not have heard the Prophet (s), they had been dead for three days by that time, but Allah miraculously brought them to life on this occasion to hear the Prophet's (s) address.

  3. This is emphasised by other reports in Bukhari (5:316-317) which state that they heard the Prophet (s) "at this moment in time" (al-an). Normally, therefore, they could not have heard him but it was arranged for the Prophet (s) only at the specific moment.

  4. For this reason, the author of Miskhat al-Masabih records this hadith in the chapter on miracles since it defies the general rule that the dead don't hear.

  5. The Prophet (s) said about those he addressed in the well: "You do not hear better than they but they cannot reply." (Bukhari 2:452). In other words, their hearing is of no benefit to them and they - the dead - could not respond.

Allah knows best.

Iqbal

120

The qur'an tells us:

[Yusufali 21:27] They speak not before He speaks, and they act (in all things) by His Command.
[Yusufali 21:28] He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, *and they offer no intercession except for those who are acceptable, and they stand in awe and reverence of His (Glory).*

& also

*[Yusufali 2:255] Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? *

Some specific people can intercede with
Allah by His permission. But this is not granted to every people.