why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

not a good example. She was a a bad guy in this ordeal. Anyone who fights against Hazrat Ali is a bad guy, for sure. Maybe you should have used another example.

just saying.

Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

thanks kinnare

Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

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I don't think ismailis have namaz at all. But shias, bohris and alvis have a similar concept as sunnis.

Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

shia in their imam bara do allow women to lead the prayer. yes in big congration it is taboo I do agree with you.

Ive read all ur posts and masha Allah all of em really knowledgeable (hence off topic) m sticiking to the topic of the imamat and on topic u have just qouted one hadith, thats it nothing else and thats also without reference, can u please give proper reference to that hadith so that i could check is it hadith sahih, hadith dai'f hadith marfu, hadith mauqaf, hadith maqtu or hadith mursal.

cuz i can qoute u many hadiths like brother submission to peace did with proper reference.
again sister/ brother most of ur hadiths are off topic proving men and women are equal or no or who is inferior but m looking for ur posts on teh topic of this thread which is imamat and i could only find one hadith wich is not even referenced, please qoute the reference so that i could change my point of view and could match em with the hadiths submisison to peace qouted.
please

Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

alig-reinevent, Ismaili call the Namaz, Dua, I think it does not matter what you call. Their (DUA) namaz is available on internet I will try to post the link,

believe me :) shia women are not allowed to lead prayer for men, doesn matter its a huge gathering or small

and please qoute the reference to the hadith.

I am trying to find the reference would post as soon as I have it. been while you can trust be that their is this hadith

Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

so i would have to assume that this 1 hadith contradicts with so many "sahih" and authentic hadiths submission to peace posted :S:S

Umm well i think the original question not only mean leading a prayer but also women leading something in general… including prayers too

But anyway you’re to the point EcoShan:lajawab: Jazak Allah Khairan:phati:

Btw alevis in turkey, don’t even pray, i mean most of them.. So there’s no prayer to lead… And the ones who pray, follow male imams as well…

Wassalam

Ismaili dua link as promise

Welcome to IsmailiDUA.com

Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

^^
there are alot of contradictory hadiths in the books , thats y they had to compile the books of "sahih hadith" and get rid of dai'f and other kind of hadiths, and ive been trying to find the hadith u qouted since morning and still cnat find it :s atleast not in sahih bukhari :S

Havent read through all the replies here, but just wanted to share this very good article on the subject. Its kinda long, but well worth the read......

A Woman's Reflection on Leading Prayer

"Given my privilege as a woman, I only degrade myself by trying to be something I’m not--and in all honesty--don’t want to be: a man. As women, we will never reach true liberation until we stop trying to mimic men, and value the beauty in our own God-given distinctiveness."

by Yasmin Mogahed
25 March 2005

On March 18, 2005 Amina Wadud led the first female-led Jumuah (Friday) prayer. On that day women took a huge step towards being more like men. But, did we come closer to actualizing our God-given liberation?

I don’t think so.

What we so often forget is that God has honored the woman by giving her value in relation to God—not in relation to men. But as western feminism erases God from the scene, there is no standard left—but men. As a result the western feminist is forced to find her value in relation to a man. And in so doing she has accepted a faulty assumption. She has accepted that man is the standard, and thus a woman can never be a full human being until she becomes just like a man—the standard.

When a man cut his hair short, she wanted to cut her hair short. When a man joined the army, she wanted to join the army. She wanted these things for no other reason than because the “standard” had it.

What she didn’t recognize was that God dignifies both men and women in their distinctiveness--not their sameness. And on March 18, Muslim women made the very same mistake.

For 1400 years there has been a consensus of the scholars that men are to lead prayer. As a Muslim woman, why does this matter? The one who leads prayer is not spiritually superior in any way. Something is not better just because a man does it. And leading prayer is not better, just because it’s leading. Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet have asked Ayesha or Khadija, or Fatima—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven—and yet they never lead prayer.

But now for the first time in 1400 years, we look at a man leading prayer and we think, “That’s not fair.” We think so although God has given no special privilege to the one who leads. The imam is no higher in the eyes of God than the one who prays behind.

On the other hand, only a woman can be a mother. And God has given special privilege to a mother. The Prophet taught us that heaven lies at the feet of mothers. But no matter what a man does he can never be a mother. So why is that not unfair?

When asked who is most deserving of our kind treatment? The Prophet replied ‘your mother’ three times before saying ‘your father’ only once. Isn’t that sexist? No matter what a man does he will never be able to have the status of a mother.

And yet even when God honors us with something uniquely feminine, we are too busy trying to find our worth in reference to men, to value it—or even notice. We too have accepted men as the standard; so anything uniquely feminine is, by definition, inferior. Being sensitive is an insult, becoming a mother—a degradation. In the battle between stoic rationality (considered masculine) and self-less compassion (considered feminine), rationality reigns supreme.

As soon as we accept that everything a man has and does is better, all that follows is just a knee jerk reaction: if men have it—we want it too. If men pray in the front rows, we assume this is better, so we want to pray in the front rows too. If men lead prayer, we assume the imam is closer to God, so we want to lead prayer too. Somewhere along the line we’ve accepted the notion that having a position of worldly leadership is some indication of one’s position with God.

A Muslim woman does not need to degrade herself in this way. She has God as a standard. She has God to give her value; she doesn’t need a man.

In fact, in our crusade to follow men, we, as women, never even stopped to examine the possibility that what we have is better for us. In some cases we even gave up what was higher only to be like men.

Fifty years ago, society told us that men were superior because they left the home to work in factories. We were mothers. And yet, we were told that it was women’s liberation to abandon the raising of another human being in order to work on a machine. We accepted that working in a factory was superior to raising the foundation of society—just because a man did it.

Then after working, we were expected to be superhuman—the perfect mother, the perfect wife, the perfect homemaker—and have the perfect career. And while there is nothing wrong, by definition, with a woman having a career, we soon came to realize what we had sacrificed by blindly mimicking men. We watched as our children became strangers and soon recognized the privilege we’d given up.

And so only now—given the choice—women in the West are choosing to stay home to raise their children. According to the United States Department of Agriculture, only 31 percent of mothers with babies, and 18 percent of mothers with two or more children, are working full-time. And of those working mothers, a survey conducted by Parenting Magazine in 2000, found that 93% of them say they would rather be home with their kids, but are compelled to work due to 'financial obligations'. These ‘obligations’ are imposed on women by the gender sameness of the modern West, and removed from women by the gender distinctiveness of Islam.

It took women in the West almost a century of experimentation to realize a privilege given to Muslim women 1400 years ago.

Given my privilege as a woman, I only degrade myself by trying to be something I’m not--and in all honesty--don’t want to be: a man. As women, we will never reach true liberation until we stop trying to mimic men, and value the beauty in our own God-given distinctiveness.

If given a choice between stoic justice and compassion, I choose compassion. And if given a choice between worldly leadership and heaven at my feet—I choose heaven.

© 2005 Yasmin Mogahed
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Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

^ That is true ... How can women be liberated when they are being asked to do what men have naturally been doing? Surely this is a neglect of the role of woman. If all women and men do the same things then there will surely be a loss.

Femininity needs to be liberated in order to allow the 'women' to be content with themselves and not try to attain an artificial sense of freedom through copying men.

Jazakillah khair sister

Not all women are the same. Some women are actually more masculine than men.

The idea of gender itself is not black and white. To say that "women should do this and men should do that" shows a complete ignorance of the issue of gender.

There is a huge gray area when determining someone's gender. There is no clear way to decide between a man and woman. In fact, it is highly questionable whether this distinction should even be given any importance.

So those whom you call "men" can do whatever they like, and those you call "women" can do whatever they like, barring any boundaries placed on them by themselves or society.

You are making assumptions based on your bias. The modern world and recent ancient world has been ruled by patriarchy. Before the agricultural era women did rule their villages. Their rule was matriarchal and family's were centered around the woman and her name, not the male's.

If we were to abolish this social conditioning that men should rule and that the blood of the man has more value than that of the female (names passing through the male lineage is a newer concept in the history of humankind) then we would not see this problem.

Women are just as capable as men. But it is this bias based on a fallacy that makes people think that women are weaker than men.

naturally been doing? Women used to enter into warfare and they would lead troops until the advent of patriarchy. Women used to be respected and exalted as more than child bearers. They were respected because they were life givers. They raised the children and ran the household. They ran the villages and worked as doctors. Women and men worked together until the agricultural area began-- when society started dictating gender and work roles. Women are no less capable than men.

If your only argument is about war, then I would make the suggestion that men are the cause of war and the world would be a much safer and peaceful place if men weren't allowed to continue.

See how that works?

I am sorry if you mentioned it somewhere and I missed reading it, but before I reply to your post, I need to know the name of the planet to which the above statement holds true.

Most probably I didn't understand the context of the above statement. Would you kindly elaborate ?

Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)

Some high claims but no names.

As I mentioned before when we talk of small organizations or head of a family, the difference of gender might not matter a lot. But I have yet to see mentioning of names of any** leader / founder of a religion, leader of a nation*....etc. when we say that people of one gender can be **relatively a better* Imam / leader than people of another gender.