Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
Err....anybody forgetting that the wives of our Holy Prophet did lead Muslims in very aspect of life and more importantly made decisions on issues as important as politics and diplomatic relations?
I think the answer is obvious ... the leader is subject to scrutiny and talk ...
Women should be sacrosanct to anything that could harm their persona ... Leadership puts them in the limelight why burden women with such things? Men have a different role and are scrutinised in different ways.
Then when a woman is going through her cycles people will know because her attitude will change in public for everyone to see ...
I agree with you plus in Human specie....females are the weaker gender biologically too ( In terms of Strength and Edurance).
Humans are no different....the most enduring (phyisically and mentally) gender should get the leading role! Its not religious but a law of nature:)
But in some species like for examples certain insects (Preying Mantis and in Spiders) the female is more dominant.
I don't even consider it a religious debate....has nothing to do with mullahs..............or being Islamic
Why doesn't the US army make an entire regiment of Women only ! if Women are exactly equal to Men......reason Biological differences..and superiority of Men in strength and intelligence. Now go and ask US military..may be they can give a better answer
Conclusion : MALE AND FEMALE IN MOST SPECIES INCLUDING HUMANS ARE NOT EQUAL BIOLOGICALLY. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT ROLES MATCHING THEIR PHYSICAL AND MENTAL ABILITIES.
It is true that american army might consider female solider inferior to man. But their are many cases in Islam where female solider fough along side Men. Muslim even had many Commeder of Chief in Islam. Bibi Ayesha, Chad Bibi, and Tipu Sultan had a female regiment.
There was lady name Ibn-butan who Prophet Mohammad himself train to Imam of congretion and she ues to lead friday prayer and all the men behind her use to pray. Shahi Bukari
Please provide detailed source and information about this woman. Only writing Sahih Bukhari is not enough, please provide the exact related hadith and the person who narrated it. I searched through the net and couldn't find any mentioning of such a lady.
[quote]
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. **As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great. **The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 4, Verse 34.
Allah says in the Qur'an (translation),
...And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them... The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 2, Verse 228.
[/quote]
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
When Virgin Mary got in Al-Aqsa and prayed with jew rabbis, she was there alone as a woman against all those men.. When she gave birth to Jesus without a father, she faced all people as a woman alone..
Queen of Sabaa was there alone as a woman, when she declared to her vassal, that she believes in what Soliaman had told to her..
Aisha r.a. was leading the Camel War, alone as a woman again...
But then at time of PRophet pbuh (when islam first started).. People were even burrying little girls alive, considering them slaves, so then how could women go and tell about islam in sucha society? Let's say they went to Taif (where even PRophet pbuh, himself got stonned) to preach islam... Would that be possible?..
Let's think, think, think.. as we are given mind :)
yeah no fair..why women is not given same importance
^ The importance is the same for both women and men, but in accordance to their respective duties and responsibilities nature has assigned them respectively. In some cases women have more benefits over men, while in other cases it is the opposite.
No matter how much some feminists cry, Allah has not changed HIS decision that it is the woman who would have to go through monthly periods and get pregnant, but at the same time she is also blessed with relatively more patience than a man to bring up a child. On the other hand men are blessed with relatively more physical strength to do out door activities like construction..etc. Their respective rewards are also great in terms of their respective duties. In Islam, a woman becomes 3 times more deserving of respect from her child as compared to her husband after she becomes a mother and jannah lies under the feet of a mother. The same importance is not given to a father.
@ Topic. Following is an article (along with references) on why a woman can not / should not lead men in prayers unless no one among the men know how to lead prayers.
Source: Women Pray Behind Men
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
Well i think leading a prayer, and leading something else (country, war, organisation..) is different in a sense.. as even Aisha ra leaded a war...
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
On the contrary women are more important that us men.
They are so imoprtant that a decent man could not subject his sister, wife or mother to the scrutinous eye of the public.
Also, there may be some honour in leadership but if we fear fitnah enough then we should try to avoid leadership because of the great responsibility and the great accountability that can be exercised over us.
A female leader if she gets pregnant what will happen? Will she take maternity leave? It is ridiculous to assume that equality of gender needs to equate to a woman being made Imam.
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
^ True, the hectic and tough routine of leading a nation (in true sense like prophets and sohabas) is not that luxurious that a person takes a leave for 6 days a month (other then holidays) and then for 9 months during pregnancy, and then for few more months when at times the child intensively need mother care…etc. True leaders like Hazrat Umar (r.a) are constantly struggling mentally and physically with sleepless nights for the betterment of a nation to make sure that even a dog should not die due to hunger. The tenure of Hazrat Ayesha (r.a) as a leader was very short and it can not be used as an example for making a woman leader for a long time.
We have the example of Hazrat Umar (r.a) punishing his own son to death as justice demanded that. A mother might not be able to do that due to the intense love she has for her child.
My previous response was only for becoming a religious leader / Imam for which we have clear hadiths available.
For general organizations in present age, some prominent scholars do agree that if a woman is selected by merit to become a head of any organization comprising of mixed gender, there is nothing wrong in it. I also agree to this fact that the merit should be based on capability of the person no matter if it is a woman or a man.
In wars, physical strength, mental toughness and levelheadedness matters a lot. Anyone who gets emotional too often would make more mistakes and lead to disasters. It is a fact that women are more prone to getting frustrated and emotional during 6 days a month. I have nothing against women but we have the following hadith to take guidance from when we talk of leaders of a nation:
Good leaders lead from the front in wars. Can anyone please give me examples in which woman leaders have won wars from men leaders ? Queen Sheeba was leader before submitting to Allah (swt) so that is not a good example. Hazrat Ayesha (r.a) case is also a rare example (with very short duration) in the history comprising of centuries. Please give more examples.
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
The justifications people will find for excuding women are hilarious. What kind of women do you people know that become incapcitated during their menstrual cycle? I have worked with women all my life and have never found them to be incompetent, absent, ineffective or in need of 6 days off per month. That is ridiculous.
The animalistic argument that men are physically stronger, and that is why they need to be religous leaders is equally ridiculous. That is nothing more than machismo.
As far as intelligence and decision making, men are in no way superior to women in that regard. And to say men are less emotional is a farce. Men are more prone to anger and selfishnesss, which leads to bad decisions and judgment.
When religion is such an important part of a society's life, of course women are not treated equally when not allowed to be religous leaders.
There really is no accurate argument for not allowing women to lead men other than that's the way it has always been.
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
Practical examples in the history where women proved themselves better leaders (than men) of "A NATION" would help a lot in improving mutual understanding of our views. I am not talking of females who became leaders due to nepotism but those who came to the top due to their leadership qualities. Do we even need to give any example where men have proven themselves better leaders only due to their leadership qualities?
One good quality of a leader is that he is able to convince the majority of people to accept him their leader. He is able to gain dominance over enemies through mental strength and good leadership qualities. How often has that happened with women in any part of the world ? Saying that women in the history were not able to get enough support / dominance / education...etc. to prove themselves good leaders is in itself degrading the leadership qualities of women.
There should have been at least one country that was consistently ruled by female leaders. IF not, then it was not because of their weakness, but because they knew exactly what their responsibilities in life were and what capabilities nature has blessed them to be used in which fields of life.
Chad Bibi not only defeated Mughals but rule her kingdom with iron fist. Their are many ladies who have been in position of leadership in area now called Pakistan. Pakistan is a natural country and have never been part of India except during mughal and British rule.
Begum Imam shah whose Mazhar is in Karachi many local go to her urs every year was one time great leader of her community. And their is Mrs Allana she was first muslim parlimentarian of Sub-continent from Larkana.
Please provide detailed source and information about this woman. Only writing Sahih Bukhari is not enough, please provide the exact related hadith and the person who narrated it. I searched through the net and couldn't find any mentioning of such a lady.
Degree above them mean what can you please explain.
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
M totally dissapointed after seeing this thread. If u dont have any knowledge please dont contribute to the islamic topics then. Its really making me sad seeing ppl qouting historic events for proving their point instead of qouting Quran or hadith, Astaghfirullah. If we dont like islamic laws then we should just quit islam instead of opposing islamic laws and at the same time calling ourselves muslims. when talking about islam, qoute quran or hadith or islamic history instead of qouting world's history.
anyways now coming back to the topic.
Who is Imam btw??? do we know??
Imam can be a person who do dawah, who could give Fatwah, who could teach Islam, could give islamic advices and could LEAD PRAYER.
Yes women can be an Imam, an islamic scholar. the argument that a fatwah from women while menstruation period can cause the whole islamic ummah trouble was just pathetic, i guess the fatwahs from male are also causing alot of trouble, if i start qouting the pathetic, unislamic and funny fatwahs the muftis of biggest university of islam (Al-Azhar) have been giving and after 2 months saying sorry oh we did wrong, then this thread is gona be a million pages.
Yes women can be a religious scholar, a mufti, a great Daayi, a great islamic teacher, a great islamic adviser, hence a Women can do all the duties of Imam as men do BUT can not lead a prayer for men or cant stand infront of men while praying.
Now a logical mind would ask y is that?
Is it inequality?? A bias?? discrimination?? stupidness?? insanity or wat??
A women can lead a prayer for women only but not men, and the reason is not that women is inferior, the reason is men are inferior :) (yes i m a man)
when u go in sujood ur bottom position can be ver tempting and attractive to men who are not brave and strong enough and dont have Allah's fear to a great extent in their hearts and their prayer would be distracted and they wont be able to concentrate on praising Allah.
Now again a logical mind would ask that its the duty of men to control their selves instead of making women not to lead and stand behind. Yes that is true that it should men's duty to control their nerves but when it comes to islamic laws they are made by considering the weakist of all not the strongest. if someone wants to live in denial its their prob but it is true that in matters like this women's controling power is much much greater then men as men's nufs is weaker than women.
So bottom line is that women are supposed to pray behind men not cause women are inferior but men are inferior in some stuff.
and again, whoever thinks a women cant be an imam/mufti/ religious scholar cause of her menstruation period is totally wrong.
Did Islam produce a greater scholar than Aisha (may Allah be please with her) ?????
NO islam did not produce any scholar great tthan Aisha, even Khulfa e Rashideen used to go to her to inquire islam :)
and if u dont like islamic laws please dont qoute history and talk against islamic laws and still call urselves as muslims.
Allah knows the best
M totally dissapointed after seeing this thread. If u dont have any knowledge please dont contribute to the islamic topics then. Its really making me sad seeing ppl qouting historic events for proving their point instead of qouting Quran or hadith, Astaghfirullah. If we dont like islamic laws then we should just quit islam instead of opposing islamic laws and at the same time calling ourselves muslims. when talking about islam, qoute quran or hadith or islamic history instead of qouting world's history.
anyways now coming back to the topic.
Who is Imam btw??? do we know??
Imam can be a person who do dawah, who could give Fatwah, who could teach Islam, could give islamic advices and could LEAD PRAYER.
Yes women can be an Imam, an islamic scholar. the argument that a fatwah from women while menstruation period can cause the whole islamic ummah trouble was just pathetic, i guess the fatwahs from male are also causing alot of trouble, if i start qouting the pathetic, unislamic and funny fatwahs the muftis of biggest university of islam (Al-Azhar) have been giving and after 2 months saying sorry oh we did wrong, then this thread is gona be a million pages.
Yes women can be a religious scholar, a mufti, a great Daayi, a great islamic teacher, a great islamic adviser, hence a Women can do all the duties of Imam as men do BUT can not lead a prayer for men or cant stand infront of men while praying. Now a logical mind would ask y is that? Is it inequality?? A bias?? discrimination?? stupidness?? insanity or wat??
A women can lead a prayer for women only but not men, and the reason is not that women is inferior, the reason is men are inferior :) (yes i m a man) when u go in sujood ur bottom position can be ver tempting and attractive to men who are not brave and strong enough and dont have Allah's fear to a great extent in their hearts and their prayer would be distracted and they wont be able to concentrate on praising Allah.
Now again a logical mind would ask that its the duty of men to control their selves instead of making women not to lead and stand behind. Yes that is true that it should men's duty to control their nerves but when it comes to islamic laws they are made by considering the weakist of all not the strongest. if someone wants to live in denial its their prob but it is true that in matters like this women's controling power is much much greater then men as men's nufs is weaker than women.
So bottom line is that women are supposed to pray behind men not cause women are inferior but men are inferior in some stuff.
and again, whoever thinks a women cant be an imam/mufti/ religious scholar cause of her menstruation period is totally wrong.
Did Islam produce a greater scholar than Aisha (may Allah be please with her) ????? NO islam did not produce any scholar great tthan Aisha, even Khulfa e Rashideen used to go to her to inquire islam :)
and if u dont like islamic laws please dont qoute history and talk against islamic laws and still call urselves as muslims.
Allah knows the best
women as Iman it only we sunni who do not allow women to lead men in Prayer. Shia, Aga Khani, Bohri, Alvi (Turkey), and many other sect all women to lead Prayer both for men and women. So it is not the problem of Islam but of only sunnis.
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
good point ecoshan bhai
"A women can lead a prayer for women only but not men, and the reason is not that women is inferior, the reason is men are inferior :) (yes i m a man)
when u go in sujood ur bottom position can be ver tempting and attractive to men who are not brave and strong enough and dont have Allah's fear to a great extent in their hearts and their prayer would be distracted and they wont be able to concentrate on praising Allah."
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
@ kinnare......Ive seen Sunni women so many times doing imamat for other women, might there is a sub sect of sunnis that forbides women imamat for other women. as far as i know if two or more women are praying togethor one of em should go for imamat.
And u r wrong, shias do not allow women to do imamat for men, and i dono about aga khani, bohri or turks, if they do allow women to lead man in prayer according to my limited knowledge they do wrong :). u r again qouting something that is happening in the world instead of qouting Quran hadith or islamic history :)
Anyways anything done wrong by muslims doesn mean islam is wrong, it means Muslims are wrong.
good point ecoshan bhai
"A women can lead a prayer for women only but not men, and the reason is not that women is inferior, the reason is men are inferior :) (yes i m a man) when u go in sujood ur bottom position can be ver tempting and attractive to men who are not brave and strong enough and dont have Allah's fear to a great extent in their hearts and their prayer would be distracted and they wont be able to concentrate on praising Allah."
shukriya bhai
Re: why woman is not allowed to become Imam (leader)
Echo Bhai, we are talking about women lead men in Prayer. Please read my all the posting on the subject I have made quite clear both from Quarani Ayat and history that according to Allah it is men who is inferior not women. Except one ayat in quran where Allah has said that 2 women would be required as witness. But I have quote several ayat where Allah has clearly said the men is the weaker in the pair.
Please read very good book on the subject Quran and Woman by Amina Wadud. it is must read on the subject.