[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Anwaar Qureshi: *
then that contradicts your explanation and context of the ayaah you mentioned..
Can you explain that ayaah in more details with all your interpretation?
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well it would be nice if you can explain how it contradicts :)
Kaleem bhai: what I know is that you can ask DIRECTLY to ALLAH with the Waseelaa of Prophets and respected personalities in Islam. But making a supplication directly to those people is Shirk, ofcourse. You can do it this way for example:
"O ALLAH: with the waseelaa/sadqa of your beloved Prophet:saw: I ask you … "
What is your understanding on this type of dua?
Allah!
There is no god
but He - the Living,
The Self-subsisting, Eternal.
No slumber can seize Him
Nor Sleep. His are all things
In the heavens and on earth.
Who is there can intercede
In His presence except
As he permitteth?
…
http://www.nmhschool.org/tthornton/translation_of_ayat_al.htm
To my mind, intercession doesnt get any more explicit backing than this.
Couple to that the ayat already cited where we’re asked to seek means to approach him..
Hey Sheraz, AQ!
Perhaps one of you open a new thread and discuss it there
What is the status of the Prophet hood of Muhammad:saw: in the light of above explanation?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
The propriety of saying "Ya Ali Madad" depends entirely upon the intention of the person who says it.
If the help of Hadhrat Ali (A.S.) or any of the other ma'sumeen is sought as an intercessor and a 'waseelah' envisaged by the Holy Qur'an in Ayah 35 of Suratul Maidah then not only there can be no objection but it would be the right and proper thing to do.
But if help is sought in the belief that the person whose help sought shares with Allah the right to create, sustain and
protect then the call for help might amount to 'shirk'.
The Ayah referred to above reads as follows:
"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to
approach him ((wab tagoo ilayhi waseelah).................."
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AQ..i have already posted it..it depends on the intention
i see what u are saying..tell me this..do you consider Prophet Mohummad (pbuh&up) having higher rutba then other Prophets?
2:253 Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.
^^
yes sherz, you see it is in Quran, but the ayah you mentioned talks about the status of Imaam and prophet, not prophet vs prophet…
so what you are saying is that ALL imaam were higher in status than every prophet came EXCEPT for Rasoolulah:saw: ?
AQ..we already know about the sacrifices of Hazrat Ibrahim...thats when Allah says in Quran..again that ayat:
[Shakir 2:124] And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.
Hazrat Ibrahim was already a Prophet..after passing the exams Allah rewarded Him with this status
for example...you already have a masters degree...you take more exams and do well in them...ur reward won't be a bechelors degree :) simple si baat hai bhai
dont for a second think that i am saying Prophets were just normal human beings..no they were special..my point is to show you the importance of the Imams
also have you read the ayat about Mubahila in Quran? and Prophets (pbuh&up) hadith regarding it? hadith are both in shia sunni books..inshallah i will share all that with you all..lil later
just a side question then:) As you are saying Hadhrat Ibrahim:as: was made Imaam as it is clear in quran too, so are the Imaam of Shia have higher status than Prophet Ibrahim:as:?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
no you are not sheraz..i am sheraz:)
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LOL. Sorry, that was a typo! :o
[quote]
and you are very right..let me give you an ayat...see i wanted to gather all the info and open up a new thread but atleast i can share this with u.
The following verse signifies that Hazrat Ibrahim was made imam after he he passed a trial. This prooves that the rank of Imamah is higher than that of prophethood. Hazrat Ibrahim was already a prophet before he was made imam. Our last prophet PBUH was an imam also, he had the highest rank among all prophets.
[Shakir 2:124] And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.
Quran is a book of principles, and we see this above mentioned verse as a proof that Imamat is higher than prophet hood... The fact that a prophet was made imam is enough validate the point, since a prophet can not be raised to something lower than his status in religion!
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But can't this verse also mean that all Prophets were imams?? If the status of imamat is higher than prophethood then shouldn't all imams of Muslims be mentioned in the Quran?
I think the sevener shias(smailis) believe that a portion of Quran was not recorded and it's not in the current copy of the Quran we have. Do you guys have the same beleif? Just curious.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CurruptAngel: *
I think the sevener shias(smailis) believe that a portion of Quran was not recorded and it's not in the current copy of the Quran we have. Do you guys have the same beleif? Just curious.
[/QUOTE]
no.
^Thanks.
Verse 4, Sura 66
“Now if both of you turn to Allah repentant, it will be better for you as your hearts are already so inclined. But if you backup each other against him, surely Allah is his helper, and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers, and furthermore, all other angels too are his helpers.”
According to Ibn Abbas, the holy Prophet said that the “righteous men” alluded to as “helper” in this verse, refers to Hadrat Ali.
Sunni reference: muslim-canada.org
So in the light of above ayah and hadith what would you say if you call Hadrat Ali (as) to help you??
Ya Ali madad??!!
Please Admin! Split this thread into two, so others can also take part in the discussion between brother Sheraz And brother Anwar. Thanks.
excellent reference zer01. i suggest to the mods that this thread be split so that the distinctly different topics could be done justice to.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CurruptAngel: *
But can't this verse also mean that all Prophets were imams?? If the status of imamat is higher than prophethood then shouldn't all imams of Muslims be mentioned in the Quran?
[/QUOTE]
you see Allah called him Imam AFTER he sacrificed his son hazrat ismail..and you know how long he waited to become a father..Allah gave him this naimat of aulaad at a very old age..so imagine how happy he must be to have hazrat ismail as a son...and then to see in his dream that allah wants you to sacrifice your son...imagine the greatness when he is ready to sacrifice his son and when he sees that his son is actually alive..he got worried that maybe Allah didnt like his sacrifice and was ready to slaugther his son again and thats when Allah called him an Imam
AQ correct me if i am wrong but i believe Prophet Mohummad (pbuh&up) and Imam Ali (a.s.) are the offspring of Hazrat Ibrahim
sorry i had you go through all that trouble to get a red pen 
anyways there is also an ayat that i am looking for..its when Allah says that Prophet Mohummad (pbuh&up) does not say anything of his own..basically everything he says is has the “marzi of Allah”
absolutely correct but as the ayah u quoted does say that not all offspring of Ibrahim:as: were made imaam…
Banu Haashim came from the branch of Hadhrat Ismaail:as:, son of Ibrahim:as:… so are the jews off spring of Hadhrat Ishaaq:as:, also son of Ibrahim..
So in the light of above details, what were you trying to tell me?
PS: you did not really answer my previous question, rather asked me a question. Was it too complex to answer?
but is there any proof in the Quran that Muhammad (saw) was given the status of Imam????
or that he ranks above the rest????