I definitely do not wish to indulge in mud slinging, nor did I bring these people into the thread. Suffice to say, there are very straightforward answers to these questions, and are the staple diet of every shia.
should you wish to continue the brawl in private i’d happily do so, but these people you’re talking about happen to be very respected for sunnis, thereby this would only result in thread-closings.
as for whether i think you’re sunni or not, I did assume you were. if i was mistaken perhaps you can correct me by telling me what you infact are.
I don’t think that’s quite true Mughal…Anyone who believes in the Tawheed and the finality of the Prophethood of our Holy Prophet :saw: is considered a Muslim…But I understand your point, but it relates more to Bida’a than than outright Kufr, but Bida’a itself in many circumstances is outright Kufr itself…
But it is indeed interesting to know that Shias consider their Imams greater than the Prophets, even though the Prophets were the harbinger and carrier of Allah :swt:'s messages and were Divinely inspired by Allah :swt: Himself…The Imams on the other hand are nothing more than those who revive the Deen, but do not carry the Word of Allah :swt: and neither does Allah :swt: address them directly or even through the angel Jibraeel :as:…
baba sayee thora time to do..itni jaldi islam say out ker rahay ho..banday ko aur bhi kaam kernay hotay hain..aa raha hoon thora sabar baba
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Do not blindly follow what people say or anyone. Quran is perfect, follow it and you will realize what reality is. Millions might be following a belief but it may be wrong. I myslef am not perfect, and do make mistakes because i am a human. Always ask Allah, the Creater for guidance with an open heart.
i see that this thread has relegated into a regular shia/sunni squabble, unrelated to the question of wasila.
anyway. as far as Sheraz's statement goes, it is his personal opinion which may or may not be true, but i am unaware of any solid basis for making such sweeping and categorical classifications of status.
not to say that i find anything grossly incorrect in it though.
prophets were human like us (see Quranic verses, they r popular so i wont give reference) and r bound to make mistakes....
only their mistakes r not such that wud put the "Law of God" under question....
u dont expect a prophet to err in his conveyance of message and u dont expect him to cheat or to lie or to break promises....
younis (as) made this duaa "la ilaha illa anta - subhanaka inni kuntu min azzalimeen" not without a reason....
but imams on the other hand, r followers of a prophet....
they r much more bound to make mistakes....
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thats where you and we disagree...Imams (a.s) never even made an unintentional mistake...like i said they are infalible...little human , i am not sure why u were puzzled to read the above statement..its our aqeeda that our Imams (a.s.) are masoom
btw i said i will be writing another thread about the Rutba of Imams (a.s.) bus thora sabar aur
Correct me if I am wrong(sheraz) this is according to what I have read on shi’ism: The status of Imamat is higher than Prophethood but some Prophets were Imams too(i.e. Hazrat Muhammed :saw: ). The belief of twelver shias is that Imams rank higher than all prophets(AS) except Muhammed:saw: meaning the other prophets were not Imams(correct me if I’m wrong sheraz).
and you are very right..let me give you an ayat…see i wanted to gather all the info and open up a new thread but atleast i can share this with u.
The following verse signifies that Hazrat Ibrahim was made imam after he he passed a trial. This prooves that the rank of Imamah is higher than that of prophethood. Hazrat Ibrahim was already a prophet before he was made imam. Our last prophet PBUH was an imam also, he had the highest rank among all prophets.
[Shakir 2:124] And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.
Quran is a book of principles, and we see this above mentioned verse as a proof that Imamat is higher than prophet hood… The fact that a prophet was made imam is enough validate the point, since a prophet can not be raised to something lower than his status in religion!
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*Originally posted by armughal: *
^
beghair sochay samjhay boltay jaao gay to pagal hee samjhay jaao gay....
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LOL!! In another post ( yazid (la'een) muslim?? ) you were defending the status of this Malla'oon ** beghair sochay samjhay very desperately but no were calling you Pagal there. So you better learn how to behave. And now when it is proved form your own **history and fiqha books that he was a Kafir, Fasiq, The one who had sex with his Siter, Mother and Aunts you never showed up in that post again.
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i did not declare anyone non-muslim
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Yes you did, check you own comments above.
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and imagin ur own creed who so openly call the "companions of the prophet", the best people to have walked the earth after the prophets, as kafirs and munafiqeen....
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Read again the ayah posted By Brother Mr. 420 and rethink your beliefs.
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and who is the one who intends to send laanat on the companions of the prophet????
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And what do you think about the so called companians who supported yazid (a kafir, according to your own fiqh'e) against Imam Husain (as), The Grandson of Rasulallah (saww).
In quran Allah (swt) says:
"Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting, - on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind"
Surah Baqarah verse 161.
So if Allah says curse on them of all mankind so who are you to decide that we should not curse them. Perhaps you are not one who belongs to mankind.
Sheraz, you dont need to go there.. that may or may not be true, but its irrelevant to the thread.
There has been no reply to our answers on wasila, specifically the references I gave on their recommended use amongst Sunni Imams. I'd like the discussion to focus on that.
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
Sheraz, you dont need to go there.. that may or may not be true, but its irrelevant to the thread.
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i am not sure what you are talking about? she asked something and i just replied to that..there is much more to that and i can later explain it in detail
havnt we already mentioned many times that there isnt anyone who is higher then the last Prophet (pbuh&up)
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then that contradicts your explanation and context of the ayaah you mentioned..
Can you explain that ayaah in more details with all your interpretation?
Mr. 420, I did not miss that post. You are talking about two completely different topics. One has nothing to do with another. I did not say you could not go to the doctor becuase its shirk, or not to take your car to the mechanic when it breaks down. We are talking about the concept of Waseela. What you ask of Allah is your business, if you think that you need to ask him to have your car fixed by all means do that.
Question is do you need to invoke another personality to have your voice heard by Allah? That is the question my friend. Now, lets get back to the topic instead of trying to derail the topic with comaprisons to cars and doctors. :)