Why Shia Call 'Ya-Ali' ? Please explain ?(Answer needed from my Shia friends. Thanx

I was at my best friends place a week ago. I was walking rite behind his mother while going up the stairs and she dropped something fragile. The first thing that came out of her mouth was “Ya-Ali.”

I was pretty disturbed by it. IMO, situations like that and any other sensitive situations one should call out help to Allah not to any body else.

I was in Madina for omrah 2 years ago. I spread my hands for dua but I was facing Prophet Mohammads :saw: grave. This Arabic guy (the people who guard the tomb) grabbed me from shoulders and pointed me towards Makkah and said “ASK ALLAH NOT A HUMAN .”

I have nothing against Shia’s what so ever I have great respect towards them. My best friend is Shia. Actually from my experience I have seen that Shia’s give more helping hand as compare to us Sunni’s. Just a personal experience. They are very very loving and very helping in the time of need.

There are a lot of shia’s here who could answer my question above. Please do not tell me that ‘Some shia do that and some don’t.’
Almost all the shia I have met says ‘Ya-Ali’ In the time of need or great danger. Also, please don’t say that by saying ‘Ya-Ali’ in the time of need or danger is just to show the love towards Hazarat Ali a.s as I won’t buy that.

IMO, it is a very bad practice among shia people. It shouldn’t be like this at all. I brought this point to my best friend and he agreed to what I had to say.

Lets see what my other shia friends have to say here.

-Salman

Re: Why Shia Call 'Ya-Ali' ? Please explain ?(Answer needed from my Shia friends. Thanx)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SalmanNY: *

IMO, it is a very bad practice among shia people. It shouldn't be like this at all. I brought this point to my best friend and he agreed to what I had to say.

Lets see what my other shia friends have to say here.

-Salman
[/QUOTE]

What do you know about the qur'an that makes you think that this is a bad practise?

Please enlighten us on what u have been taught.

Re: Re: Why Shia Call 'Ya-Ali' ? Please explain ?(Answer needed from my Shia friends. Thanx)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Gandalf: *

What do you know about the qur'an that makes you think that this is a bad practise?

Please enlighten us on what u have been taught.
[/QUOTE]

Quran teaches me to look towards Allah s.w.t. or ask Allah s.w.t in time of need or danger. Quran does'nt teach me to cry out for help or name any human in the time of need. Thats what Quran teaches me. What does Quran teaches you to say 'Ya-Ali' in the time of need or danger ?
-Salman

if your doctor refers you to see the specialist at the hospital.... and you get your appointment and go...more often that not - you see the SHO and if you wana see the big man you have to be extremely nice and butter up the SHO... so....

SHO ----> Seniour House Officer!!

So Hazrat Ali is Allah Mian's SHO :)

[QUOTE]
I have nothing against Shia's what so ever I have great respect towards them. My best friend is Shia. Actually from my experience I have seen that Shia's are give more helping hand than us Sunni's. Just a personal experience. They are very very loving and very helping in the time of need.
[/QUOTE]

Salman bhai i think u r right:)
I think they even pray more then us, have Iman (& hope in Allah)more then us...etc
but I don't the answer to ur question:(

Mem Sahab, with all due respect I am strongly that thinking of Shiaizim. When Allah s.w.t says Him self ( I am not sure of the exact Verse) that ‘I am more closer to you than anybody in this world’. Then why not call out His name ? He is the giver and He is the taker. IMO, all of our requests should be directed to HIM and HIM only. There should be no MEDIUM of reaching HIM as He is so very accessible through our hearts.

I am sure you guys agree that Mohammad :saw: has higher of an authority over Hazarat Ali as. Loooking from your prespective wouldnt it be Prophet Mohammad :saw: a SHO rather than Hazarat Ali :razi2: ?
-Salman

Thanx sewra :flower1:

salman check this out

QUESTION:

One of my friend ask me to ask this question to you brothers:
You know most of the time when Muslims are in trouble or they want to do a
difficult chore they say "Ya Ali Mudad". What is the reason or any religious
thing that we don't know. Can you explain in detail any reason about this.

ANSWER:

This is a very important question again dealt with in the recently published
translation of the Contemporary Fatwas of Ayatullah Seestani (May Allah
Protect him and Preserve him).
The propriety of saying "Ya Ali Madad" depends entirely upon the intention
of the person who says it.
If the help of Hadhrat Ali (A.S.) or any of the other ma'sumeen is sought as
an intercessor and a 'waseelah' envisaged by the Holy Qur'an in Ayah 35 of
Suratul Maidah then not only there can be no objection but it would be the
right and proper thing to do.
But if help is sought in the belief that the person whose help sought shares
with Allah the right to create, sustain and
protect then the call for help might amount to 'shirk'.
The Ayah referred to above reads as follows:
"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to
approach him ((wab tagoo ilayhi waseelah).................."

With salaams and du'aas from an humble servant of Ahlul Bayt and their
followers, and with a
request to be remembered by you in your prayers,

Bashir Rahim

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
salman check this out

QUESTION:

One of my friend ask me to ask this question to you brothers:
You know most of the time when Muslims are in trouble or they want to do a
difficult chore they say "Ya Ali Mudad". What is the reason or any religious
thing that we don't know. Can you explain in detail any reason about this.

ANSWER:

This is a very important question again dealt with in the recently published
translation of the Contemporary Fatwas of Ayatullah Seestani (May Allah
Protect him and Preserve him).
The propriety of saying "Ya Ali Madad" depends entirely upon the intention
of the person who says it.
If the help of Hadhrat Ali (A.S.) or any of the other ma'sumeen is sought as
an intercessor and a 'waseelah' envisaged by the Holy Qur'an in Ayah 35 of
Suratul Maidah then not only there can be no objection but it would be the
right and proper thing to do.
But if help is sought in the belief that the person whose help sought shares
with Allah the right to create, sustain and
protect then the call for help might amount to 'shirk'.
The Ayah referred to above reads as follows:
"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to
approach him ((wab tagoo ilayhi waseelah).................."

With salaams and du'aas from an humble servant of Ahlul Bayt and their
followers, and with a
request to be remembered by you in your prayers,

Bashir Rahim
[/QUOTE]

Excellent reply. That almost answers my question. May Allah s.w.t reward you for this. BUT, I would translate that verse from Quran as like I should find a way to approach Him by praying or by doing Jis Ibadat. I am not 100% sold on that answer.

My next question would be how legit it is in the light of Sunnah and Quran to make someone your Vaseela. Why can't we ask Allah s.w.t directly for anything. ? If that Verse of Quran truely address this question then I am 101% satisfied with your answer. I will look into it. Many Thanx
-Salman

ur answer

hi there how r u my names salman,i m from pakistan but i been livin in dubai since i was born,i have somethin to say but my dear friend dont get offended by wht ever i may say rite now,with no disrespect to ne religion,i m a very modern type of a person have pierced ear alwaz stay in style but regardless of my acts n my behaviour i pray five times a day n recite quran daily without failure i have finished my bba n now i m doin my masters aswell as i m workin in NOKIA MIDDLE-EAST,but even if i was not borned in a shia family i wud have turned into one cuz i m proud of it,well like i said thts my personal point of view as on neutral grounds i wud only have one answer to ur question it may or it may not satisfy u but it goes like tht not only in once occasion but in very ocassions our prophet (pbuh)HAZRAT MUHAMMED (SAWAS) said ..MIN KUNTUM MOLA FA HAZA ALI MOLA..ie .. JIS JIS KA MEIN MOLA US US KA AIL MOLA, i wud keep my faith on tht cuz its not jus said by ne ordinary human he was tht person jen k leye duniya bani gaye thi,n if u want to have ur faith in tht man whom u met in madina well goahead every ones have to nswer for there deeds i dnt have to answer for wht u did n u dnt have to nswer for wht i did,lets jus say u do wht u have to n i will do wht i have to.
salman

hazrat ali :razi: is a human being, he has died, he can not help us only Allah :swt: can.

Allah :swt: says so many times in the qur’an to ask from him alone and muhammad :saw: has repeatedly said the same thing, by waseela the verse doesn’t refer to what the shias do, if this is waseela, then we should also all start going to church and praying to hazrat isa :as: like the christians do, so that we can reach Allah through him, like the christians believe.

Arguing Shias, Martyrs are sometime dead and sometime alive.

Don’t mourn they are Alive
Don’t use them as Waseela they are dead.

Puzzle! Same brain; thinks opposite. What is the sole purpose? Anti-Ahle Bait(A)

so why not use Hazoor (SAW) as a "waseela" I think he would be a better one dunn ya think.

if there was any excuse, please note IF, then "ya muhammad" wud be more appropriate....
and for that matter, "ya nooh", "ya ibrahim" wud be also much more suited than "ya ali"....

and then we shud not blame christians for calling out to christ....
cuz ali (ra) cud be born a million times and did what he did for islam and die in the same manner in service of islam, he wud by Allah, never reach the status that Jesus holds near Allah....

let me just clear one thing for you guys
Imam (a.s.) Ali's rutba is higher then any Prophet except for Prophet Mohummad (pbuh&up) because no one can better then the last Prophet.

now if someone wants to say Ya Mohummad madad..no problem with that :)

so if we take your word that The prophet indeed is higher, way higher than anyone else, and if one were to believe in the whole waseela deal, why not go to the person with the higher status, the prophet who is much higher than anyone else.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
Imam (a.s.) Ali's rutba is higher then any Prophet except for Prophet Mohummad (pbuh&up)
[/QUOTE]
:-O

In understand what you are saying.. but this is just way too OTT.

^^and you are basing this on what facts? Please none of us know whose rutba is higher, its only Allah. In my humble opinion, any “nabi” who recieved “wahi” or was visited by an angel has a higher rutba than Hazrat Ali:razi:. Sheraz, you are letting your emotions and love for Hazrat Ali get the better of you.

^^ ditto.

and then u want to call urself a muslim :rolleyes:

wallah if Ali(ra) heard such a thing from anyone, he wud have surely beheaded him…

Quran 2:136
Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered

Quran 2:285
The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers - We make no distinction between any of His messengers

Quran 3:84
Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered

Islam does not allow to distinguish betwen the ranks of the prophets…
and u dare to say Ali(ra) is better than the prophets???

and all the prophets have been declared as better than the rest of His creations…
Quran 6:86
*Each one (of them) did We prefer above (Our) creatures, *

even the distinction between prophets is on different matters…
like Allah spoke to Moosa (as) and he let Essa (as) give life to death and he let Dawood (as) to mould the metal and he let Soleyman (as) to rule the world and he let Nooh (as) to live so long…

and u come out to say that Ali(ra) is better than the propehts???

wallah if this is what shiaas believe, I have to say that we r wrong to call them muslims…

Some people claim that asking for help to other than god is polytheism. Such people should never go to doctor when they becomes sick because this is polytheism (shirk)! Their going to doctor is a type of seeking a help from a specialist even though they do not say by their tongue that they are getting help from the doctor. Acting shirk is enough. Also they should not ask any question from anyone or request anything from any one because all these are shirk. Furthermore, they shouldn’t eat any food because they should not help themselves by any other than God!

If they say that we do all these because Allah told us to do so, then based on their own doctrine Allah is also polytheist (Mushrik). Na’udhu Billah!

Here is what they are missing: If we get help from any body, we do it with the understanding that he by his own can not help us. He can not benefit us unless Allah wishes to. If one calls Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) or Imam Ali (AS) for help, he is, in fact, calling Allah for help through intermediary of the Prophet or the Imams, and he does that with the understanding that the Prophet or the Imams doe not have any independent power, but rather what they have (which many others lack) is that they have CREDIT in front of Allah and that Allah does not put down their requests if they pray to Allah on my behalf.

Imam Ali and all the martyrs are alive as Quran clearly testifies, though they are not on the earth. So please do not treat them as dead. Allah states in Quran:

Think not of those who are martyred in the way of Allah as dead. Nay! They are living, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord."
(Quran 3:169)

In fact all of our Imams except Imam Mahdi were martyred either by sword or by poison. Moreover, there are quite strong proofs in both Shia and Sunni that the Prophet himself was also poisoned by a Jew in the battle of Khaibar, and the poison slowly worked on his body till it finally killed him. I just bring two traditions from Sahih al-Bukhari:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 5.551
Narrated Abu Huraira:

When Khaibar was conquered, a (cooked) sheep containing poison, was given as a present to Allah’s Apostle.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 5.713

Narrated 'Aisha:

The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.”

So they should not be called dead since they are alive according to Quran. Thus we can make Tawassul to them the same way that the Shia of Moses made Tawassul to Moses:

“And he (Moses) went into the city at a time when people (of the city) were not watching, so he found therein two men fighting, one being of his Shia and the other being his enemy, and the one who was of his Shia cried out to him for help against the one who was of his enemy” (Quran 28:15)

Two things which distinguishes Tawassul and Shirk should be noted here.
First, we do not believe that the Prophet and Imams have any independent power from Allah.
Second, Allah is the one who assigned the intermediate.

The idol worshipers used a wrong intermediate, and that was another reason why it was condemned. Moreover, the idol worshippers believed that the idols can cause harm or render a benefit. Muslims are monotheists and they know that only Allah can cause harm or render a benefit. But calling the Prophet and Imams with the understanding that they could only be an intermediary to Allah, is not polytheism. ALL Muslims agreed on this point from the time of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) up to the present day, except Wahhabis. They contradict all Muslims with their new creed and accused Muslims of blasphemy; they never let any body touch the blessed grave of Prophet (PBUH&HF).

The Holy Quran further supports intermediary for approaching toward Allah where it states:

“O’ you who believe! Be mindful (of your duties) to Allah, and seek the means of approaching toward Him.” (Quran 5:35)



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   :    /     :      /    .  /         /        /     (_):         :    :


Quran tells us that there exists a means of approaching “al-Wasilah” for us in each era, which is different than Allah and we should seek him if we want to approach toward Allah. In fact, both Tawassul and Wasilah are from the same root. When we make Tawassul, it means that we seek the Mercy of Allah by resorting to a connection who was more obedient toward Allah and, as a result, Allah answers his/her prayers faster than us. Allah may forgive us for the credit and the honor of that man/woman. It is true every where that doing a job (specially if it is asking for a big courtesy) without any connection is difficult or might be impossible. Approving such a courtesy needs credit, and the one without it should resort to the one who has the credit and the connection. This credit has been acquired by absolute obedience of Allah. Nonetheless, approving any intercession still depends on Allah:

“Who can intercedes with Him except the cases that He permits?”
(Quran 2:255)

“They (i.e., prophets and Imams) do not say anything until He orders, and they act (in all things) by His command. He knows what is before them and what is behind them and they (i.e., those saints) offer no intercession except for anyone whom Allah accepts, and they are in awe and reverence of His (glory).” (Quran 21:27-28)

As you see there are exceptions. Some specific people can intercede with Allah by His permission. But this is not granted to every people.

Now, I would like to give also more references from Sunni Hadith
collections in this regard. The first reference is on the Tawassul of Ibn
Abbas (RA) to Imam Ali (AS). Please note that Ibn Abbas spoke the following words after the martyrdom of Imam Ali. Thus he did ask for intermediary of what you called a dead person.

“When the death time of Abdullah Ibn Abbas (RA) approached, he said:
`O Allah! I seek to approach toward you by means of Wilayah (accepting the mastery) of Ali Ibn Abi Talib.'”



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(          (_|          /   (_/   .    (_).          .        /

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  .        (_S.   (_).   (_S       :     /.      :      .  /       (_S



Sunni references:

  • Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p662, Tradition #1129
  • al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v3, p167
  • Manaqib Ahmad

Please note that Ibn Abbas died in 68/687 which was 28 years after the martyrdom of Imam Ali (AS). If resorting (Tawassul) to a dead was considered association (shirk), then Ibn Abbas would not dare to say so,
and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal would not have recorded it.

As for resorting to alive, al-Bukhari reported that Umar used make Tawassul to al-Abbas for rain:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 5.59
Narrated Anas:

Whenever there was drought, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to ask Allah for rain through Al-'Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib, saying, “O Allah! We used to request our Prophet to ask You for rain, and You would give us. Now we request the uncle of our Prophet to ask You for rain, so give us rain.” And they would be given rain."


Taken from Tawassul (Resorting to Intermediary)