Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Back then it was easy to get people to do as the Prophet asked? Are you kidding me? People tried to kill the Prophet (SAW) , no way was it easy!
And perhaps people believed the Prophet because he was there infront of him . So yes perhaps as far as the people who believed in Islam and the last Prophet (SAW) were concerned the words/actions of the Prophet (SAW) were enough.
It was not easy , but the Prophet’s (SAW) being there- it was completely different.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
none of his followers tried to kill him. what we hear is that things went every which way after his death.
The Prophet was there yet the Qur’an was put into a documented form. He made sure it was all written down. If he felt the same about his “explanations” we would have an “interpretation to the Qur’an” documented by him too.. or in the times of the Caliphs at least.. yet the fitna of hadith surfaces much much later..
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
“Weak” encompasses all the different terms used to describe why a particular hadith is false, e.g. mawdu = fabricated; mu’dal = consecutive narrators missing in the chain etc. These and others are all specific reasons for a hadith’s “weakness” and hadith scholars are agreed that such reports cannot be attributed to the Prophet (saw).
Yes, they were all stinking liars… there wasn’t an honest Muslim among them… never was, never will be!
People concocted verses of the Qur’an as well… we reject concocted verses, and we reject spurious hadith…
Surah 62, verse 9… please explain how you would action this command… or if you prefer you can consider these specific questions: which of the daily prescribed prayers if any is referred to? how is the “call” to be made and at what time?
I’d like to know how you know he “made sure it was all written down”?
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Here is the source… Bukhari published by Madina Publishing Company, Karachi, 1982, Printer Hamid & Co. The translator is “Maulana” Abdul Hakim Khan Shahjahan Puri.
And brother, please don’t be offended. Let’s have a good positive discussion. I am not out to prove you wrong.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
^ Good, thank you... perhaps you can quote directly from it then... what you've given so far is not a direct quote (either that or its a very poor translation)... better still, give the hadith before it and the one after it as well...
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
it’s more like, this is not a science but opinion.. Hence treat it as history, not “Shariah”.
I love it when people race to compare hadith with Qur’an.. is there any comparison?
It’s a reminder for people not to prefer trade over the rememberance of Allah. People used to call from minarets in the old days, today they use loudspeakers. Tomorrow it may be FM transmissions to your radio or internet notifications on your PDA.. do we really need hadith to come up with all this?
The primary problem with hadith is that it “freezes the interpretation” and doesn’t allow Islam to be interpreted how Allah meant it to be. Wherever Allah left room for interpretation or redefinition, it was left with some purpose. To allow Islam to be interpreted according to times and for people to find no difficulty in religion, no matter when in time the message gets to them. Qura’n gives us a universal timeless message. Hadith is stuck in 8th century Arabia/Persia.
we have no way of knowing for certain. I was only arguing using facts accepted by yourself. To me, there needs to be a lot of research into Islamic history to separate fact from fiction.. it may have happened earlier, only if Muslims hadn’t clutched on to their history as Shariah and declared it off limits to peer review and criticism.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
^ but isnt most of that just so that we can make things easier for ourselves? yeah things have changed a lot since the time of the Prophet (SAW) - but it does not mean that what was revealed then - cannot be applied today.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
I love it when people fall short of the very standards they set for others… it’s all a matter of faith you’ve said… so pointing fingers is the last thing you should be doing…
Which of the daily prescribed prayers if any is referred to? We are told here of a prayer on Friday yet no where in the Qur’an does it tell us what this prayer is (is it a new prayer or does it take the place of one of the other prayer times given in the Qur’an?)… We are told of a call to prayer yet no where prior to this is any call to prayer instituted nor is there any mention of how the call should be made [what words or sounds?] or at what time…
In your opinion… and are there no verses that “freeze the interpretation”?
Laughable… why don’t you use “facts” accepted by yourself!? Anyway, according to you we have no way of knowing whether the Qur’an was ever put into writing in the time of the Prophet (saw)… i dare say therefore that your arguments in favour of the Qur’an’s preservation or authenticity [assuming you feel it’s worth arguing this] are going to be as circular as the arguments you claim others put forward for hadith… your points are spectacularly pointless…
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
And that qualifies you to practice as The Devil’s Advocate – interesting. At least you are not hiding your intentions. 
The Prophet (Peace and Blessing be upon him) was not a ‘Post man’ to just deliver the Quran. Part of his mission was to teach and explain the Quran.
Read the following two ayahs which clearly state his mission:
Allah showed great kindness to the believers whom He sent a Messenger to them from among themselves to recite His Signs to them and purify them and teach them the Book and Wisdom, even though before that they were clearly misguided(3:164)
Allah has informed in the above surah that the Prophet (Peace and Blessing be upon him) had the attribute of teaching the Quran and purifying mankind; as underlined in the verse above, the statement “teach them the Book and Wisdom” is important in the sense that without following the Sunnah of the Prophet (Peace and Blessing be upon him), one is unlikely to have a full grasp of the Quran and accordingly act upon the Quranic commandments.
Understanding the Quran through the Sunnah makes our religion intact and complete otherwise many most important rituals such as prayers, Hajj and others will be free for all.
Another ayah with similar theme:
And we have revealed unto you the Remembrance (the Quran) so that you may explain to mankind that which has been revealed for them, and that perhaps they may reflect. (16:44)
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
good and sound methodology does not mean 100% accurate.
good and noble intentions does not mean 100% accurate results
the point is not about outright rejecting the hadeeth, but the point is about being careful, and thinking whether it seems to be in line with the quran, and whether it seems like words that would be spoken by the holy prophet
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
** Fraudia jee I understand that perfectly. However, if somebody is to say a Hadith contradicts another, or that its not obvious where it came from or its 'wrong' --- as you're all pointing out- shouldnt the answer be then found in the Quran?**
correct, and then if quran says one thing and hadeeth says something else, do you still follow the hadeeth. My answer is no..then most likely the hadees is not correct.
I dont think one is to doubt Hadith, I think one should be unsure .And ofcourse Islam is all about learning, so most definately people should go out and try to find some answers.
semantics... whether I am doubtful or I am unsure, its all the same thing. Why give a negative connotation to "doubt"
Allah SWT told us about him protecting quran, not hadeeth.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Even those who deny the ahaadeeth, peform things that are only available through sunnah (and ahaadeeth) and are not in Quran…
Few examples:
Exact time of prayers and how to pray
The Two Eids
The sacrifice of animals on second eid (10th zilhajj)
I think this is a topic beaten to death and no one will be able to satisfy other.
I, for one, follow the meaning of Quran where it is commanded to follow the prophet :saw: along with the commands of ALLAH :swt:
There is a hadith, which people can easily disregard by labeling it un-authentic even if it isn’t.. kindda circular argument but I TRUELY believe in it:
‘There will be a man with full stomach, reclining on his pillow, who will hear a command from me and say, ‘Let the judge between us (in this matter) be Allah’s Book: we obey whatever we find in it.’ [Know that] indeed, I have been given the Book and, with it, that which is similar to it (the Sunnah).’ [Ahmad, Aboo Daawood, Saheeh ul-Jaami`]
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
but i have read Quranic explanation of Prayer time somewhere on web from those people. They do all what they found in Quran; they could not find 2 Eids and sacrifice of animals they is why they deny it. they don’t do it.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Ibn Sadique bhai jaan the discussion is deeper than custom titles .. maybe u should sit this one out.
can u see the irony.. a Messenger is not a post man? why didn’t Allah call him the Instructor? or the Demonstrator? why did He tell the prophet to tell the people he was ONLY a messenger? Do u guys even read the Qur’an or u just jump to justify the other books?
bhai jaan where do u make that leap of Wisdom = Sunnah = Books of Bukhari and Muslim et al ?
free for all? in what sense? Suppose a non-muslim observed the Muslims doing all these rituals and jotted down the precise motion and chants he heard. Compiled them in a book. Centuries later Muslims had nothing with them except the Qur’an and his detailed accounts. Would other writings from him become part of the Shariah?
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
very simple, we do what we like and discard what we dont, what ever come in that way is not acceptable to us
Sad indeed
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
The difference being that this is the life of the Prophet (SAW) we’re talking about.
Ibn Sadique-- very well put.
shoiab— true in many cases.Sad indeed.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
guys
just do a yes know here
1) do you accept all hadeeth Y/N
2) do you reject all hadeeth Y/N
I doubt that many people will be a Y on either of those 2. but that is how this discussion is going.
fact is that most of us are saying the same thing but from 2 diff points..
1) I dont accept hadeeth unless I am fairly certain that it is true
vs
2) I accept hadeeth unles I am fairly certain that its not true
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
The trend that I see, is that most people seem to be confused. I mean it all comes down to interpretations. I dont know what to make of that.
Then theres the whole - it was different then - and it cant be applied now.I guess we'll need another thread on that.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Do I accept hadith?. YES.. as a source of History.. not Shariah... which means they are open to scrutiny and criticism and re-evalution by theologians, historians, arachelogists and/or other experts.
Qur'an to me is the ultimate critierion.. We do NOT need parallel books to explain it's laws.. when Allah tells us it's complete.. we should submit and try to get the most out of it by seeking knowledge. Making excuses that we don't find this or that in the Qur'an is just like Bani Israel asking Moses to ask Allah repeatedly to make clear what He had already made clear concerning The Cow.
The more you fish for details, the more hardships you'll invent for yourself in religion.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Alright. Then why do you think the Prophet (SAW) was sent down to us as an example? I mean that is if you're saying we need only Quran and can do without the Hadiths.
But if you're saying that the Quran had all we need in it, then how come you say we shouldnt make excuses for whats NOT in it.