Alright basically Im interested to know why people will follow what is mentioned in the Quran, but discard Sunnah.
I myself go along with both - or try to - God knows. But so many people say that Quran is the aunthenic source for Muslims, whereas Sunnah and Hadiths can not be trusted.
Why is this so ?
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
These people are Ahle Quran. like Perveez; Khalifa Rasheed, somehow Israr too..
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Could it be becauase the Quran presents itself as God's word and to be complete, perfect and fully detailed, while hadith are not God's word?
*"We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book." 6:38
"The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 6:115
"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." 6:114
"Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?" 7:185 *
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
to those who follow the Guidance.
Seminole don’t take verses out of context.
There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered. (Al-An’am 6:38)
And the Word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can change His Words. And He is the AllHearer, the AllKnower. (Al-An’am 6:115)
Indeed none can abrogate/change His words, the Sunnah does not contradict the Qur’aan.
[Say (O Muhammad SAW)] “Shall I seek a judge other than Allâh while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Qur’ân), explained in detail.” Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt. (Al-An’am 6:114)
The source of the Sunnah is also Allah :swt:, Mustafa’s :saw: life was divinenly guided.
Do they not look in the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all things that Allâh has created, and that it may be that the end of their lives is near. In what message after this will they then believe? (Al-A’raf 7:185)
Hadith simply means message, what makes you think it’s referring solely to the Qur’aan?
Even if it is referring to the Qur’aan, it would still mean we hav to follow the Sunnah, Allah :swt: Himself orders us in the Qur’aan to follow Muhammad :saw:, not any Imam’s, Saint’s or 21st Century “scholar’s” intrepretation but Muhammad’s :saw: intrepretation.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Indeed none can abrogate/change His words, the Sunnah does not contradict the Qur’aan.
Which version of Sunnah? I have read many hadith which contradict Quranic verses.
The source of the Sunnah is also Allah :swt:, Mustafa’s :saw: life was divinenly guided.
Many people’s and prophet’s lives have been divinely guided.
Hadith simply means message, what makes you think it’s referring solely to the Qur’aan?
Because the Quran is supposedly the words of God. Hadith are not. You are equating the reported words of Muhammed to those of God.
Even if it is referring to the Qur’aan, it would still mean we hav to follow the Sunnah, Allah :swt: Himself orders us in the Qur’aan to follow Muhammad :saw:, not any Imam’s, Saint’s or 21st Century “scholar’s” intrepretation but Muhammad’s :saw: intrepretation.
But hadith are a collection of sayings that were NOT protected by God as the Quran was. Why would God force man to rely on the interpretation of scholars (mere men) and wade through thousands of hadith, never 100% sure of what was valid, when he sent a book that he promised would be protected?
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
Referring to the Preserved Tablet (Lawh al Mahfuz)… if you are going to cite the Qur’an at least try and understand it first… don’t be like a “donkey carrying books” (Qur’an 62:5)
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
And its interpretation is not protected?.. a little pointless protecting a book if its meaning and explanation is not preserved…
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
The interpretation has obviously not been protected as evidenced by the many different sects and thousands of hadiths one has to pour through to determine their validity. As much as some Muslims want to believe that 1.2 billion disparate believers have been assimilated into a Borg-like existence with one singular belief, every scholar out there has a donkey carrying a different set of books.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
^ and there ends your earlier disingenuous comments in favour of the Qur'an - i know how hard it must have been to suppress your usual xenophobic tendencies... communities differed and split even when their prophets were among them... divergent opinions of course does not equate to the explanation not being preserved... the Prophet Muhammad (saw) was the Qur'an's "explainer"... if the Qur'an is preserved as you so want it to be then his explanation must also be preserved... a Book without meaning... pull the other one...
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
The other two 'western' religions have the New and the Old Testaments all nicely sorted out into books and even they both Judaism and Christianity have numerous sects, when people don’t want to submit to the intended meaning and start interpreting in absurd ways that’s what you get.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
I don't think people automatically discard sunnah, as you put it MQ. The facts are:
1 - Quran is the only 100% authentic guide for muslims, protected by God from corruption.
2 - Hadith are collection of reported anectedotes about the Prophet's life, narrated and collected by people well into couple of decades if not centuries after the Prophet's demise. Hadith collections do contain inaccuracies of various sorts, thats the huge margin of human error.
3 - The Prophet (saw) commits no wrong, everything he did was in accordance with the Quran (this is stated in the Quran)
Now take these facts into account and we can come up with the following conclusion:
1- We should follow the Quran
2 - We should follow and put into practise the teachings of the Quran as perfectly expemplified by the life of Prophet Muhammed (saw). This is the sunnah.
So we have no issues with either the Quran or the Sunnah of the Prophet. So whats the problem then?
The trouble begins when you realise that the life of the Prophet (Sunnah) is mostly reproted through hadith collections. Combine that fact with numbers of weak hadith, false hadith, hadith with incomplete chains of narration, hadith from untrustworthy narrators etc etc...and well you can imagine the dilemma of the average joe. To a modern day scholar Hadith are basically books of reference and research. Quran is the only criteria of whats right and whats not. And of course your god -given abilities, your brain.
To sum up, rejecting hadith does not equate to rejecting Sunnah. I would say living your life according to the Quran would in fact be Sunnah itself.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
but i suppose thats what seminole has said too. nice to know he's picked up a couple of things from his time here.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
^ How do you know exactly how the Prophet (saw) "put into practise" a particular verse/command in the Qur'an?
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
i was talking in general
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
I’m not saying the explainer’s exlpanation should not be preserved. But does it make sense to put it on par with the word of God? Particlularly since no one is 100% sure what are his words and which aren’t.
My comments are neither disingenuous nor xenophobic. Xenophobia is not part of my religion or practices. IMO, there is nothing wrong with different ‘sects’, that was not a dig. I myself don’t belong to a monolithic belief. As far as my comments regarding the Quran, I only said it to be complete, perfect and fully detailed in the context of Islamic belief, not mine.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
God (in the Qur’an) asks us to take the Prophet (saw) as an example, obey him and accept his judgements… we are not worshipping the Prophet (saw)… we are referring to him to the extent that God has ordered us to…
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
So when it comes to specifics your whole argument just breaks down?
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
discard is a strong word.. doubt is more like it.
It’s a matter of faith. No scientific proof exists in favor of the Qur’an. It has to be my faith that leads me to believe in a book in Arabic to be from God. Similary one’s faith need be really really strong to consider the extra-Qur’anic literature in it’s present form as a part of one’s religion.
I did believe it to be true once, but the more I studied the Qur’an, the harder it became to justify the diametrically opposite message i got from hadith and years of indoctrination by parents and “Islamic” society.
I was shown the way and Allah rescued me.
I’m “hadith-free”…three years and counting.
Has been debunked numerous times. The “example to follow” is of monotheism. The Prophet’s judgement in his times were Qur’anic judgements. The people of his time followed a different law, hence they were commanded to come to the judgements as revealed to the Prophet.. Many times in the Qur’an the Messenger is interchangeable with the message.. Only when the Qur’an uses Nabi or it’s variant is when Allah is directly addressing Prophet Muhammad as himself.
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
^ maybe when your faith's stronger.... ;-)
Re: Why Quran and NOT Sunnah
I suppose that Hadiths are not God’s words directly. However, Sunnah did orginate from the Quran. Ofcourse God could have just sent down the Quran and ordered His people to follow it, yet I personally think that Sunnah was indeed a way to set an example, a way as to how we may interpret the Quran.
I have no issues with what people follow , I just wonder why one would reject the actions of the Prophet (SAW) , when he did what was commanded by Allah. I mean certain ayahs and verses, we would be completely lost, if the Prophet (SAW) had not shown to us how we were meant to do certain things.
humhain— yes you have a point. A hadith may be weak , however if one believes in the Quran, isnt it then not too difficult to tell the difference between a weak hadith and a strong hadith? After all the Prophet was doing what was in the Quran ,so he was following God’s word was he not? The Prophet (SAW) was a living example of the sublime morality of Allah’s last revelation.
And when it is even mentioned in the Quran that the Prophet was sent down as an example for mnkind…why then the doubts? I mean how can one follow the Quran yet discard Sunnah? Is that not a contradiction?
So that you might all believe in Allah and His Messenger and honor Him and respect Him and glorify Him in the morning and the evening. (Surat al-Fath: 9)