Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
Punjabi is just a dialect of Urdu, not a seperate language.
Punjabi came before Urdu, Urdu dialect is actually descended from the dialects of NW Punjab..
To me Urdu is the refined, formal, urban dialect whilst Punjabi is the “let your hair down” dialect of the same languages.. Both dialects are beautiful..
I find more differences in the Peshawar Pashto and Quetta Pashto than in Punjabi and Urdu.
In our family we speak Urdu at home because it’s our national language but Pashto with paternal family and Punjabi with maternal grandparents.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
Punjabi is completely different from Urdu. Urdu script is based on Arabic while its grammar is based on Hindi.
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*Punjabi is also known as Gurmukhi i.e. spoken by Sikh Gurus. Its script is derived from Devnagari. *
** Punjabi spoken in Pakistan I guess uses Urdu/Arabic script.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
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We are talking about spoken language not script, yes in Pakistan we use "Urdu/Arabic" script or "Shah Mukhi" (spoken by Kings) to write the Punjabi dialect.
Braj, Punjabi, Pothwari, Urdu/Hindi, Hindko, Multani, Sindhi etc. are all mutually intelligible so they are dialects of the same language and they all have their roots in Pakistan and a bit of NW India. I know Rroma, Gujarati, Bengali etc. are also related and one can get a jist of the conversation but they're not mutually intelligible so I class them as seperate languages..
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
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We are talking about spoken language not script, yes in Pakistan we use "Urdu/Arabic" script or "Shah Mukhi" (spoken by Kings) to write the Punjabi dialect.
Can you tell me when was the term 'Shah Mukhi' coined ? I am hearing it for the first time.
Braj, Punjabi, Pothwari, Urdu/Hindi, Hindko, Multani, Sindhi etc. are all mutually intelligible so they are dialects of the same language and they all have their roots in Pakistan and a bit of NW India. I know Rroma, Gujarati, Bengali etc. are also related and one can get a jist of the conversation but they're not mutually intelligible so I class them as seperate languages..
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
I disagree with the basic premise of this thread. I don't think its a given that Punjabis do not speak Punjabi with their kids. May be in some cases thats true (especially amongst expatriates). However it is not true in a vast majority of Punjabis.
I am born and raised in Lahore, while a large part of my family lives in Karachi. The one big difference I notice is that Punjabis are very relaxed and secure about their culture. There is no overt attempt to force people to adopt. Kids in school are not forced to learn Punjabi (unlike Karachi where Sindhi is forcefed on all kids). However, practically every guy I know in Lahore, speaks Punjabi. Its something which is effortless. Kids pick it up in their homes. Many punjabi families I know make an effort to speak urdu and still their kids end up speaking fluent punjabi. In villages and other rural areas of Punjab, Punjabi is basically the only language people speak. Unless you go towards Multan where in the Siraiki belt, its Siraiki language all over the place.
Outside Pakistan (especially in UK) I know many Pakistani families where their kids speak either English or Punjabi. They really struggle with Urdu. At homes they always speak Punjabi.
On an over all basis, I think kids have a tremendous ability to learn languages at a young age. We should capitalize on that and not restrict them to one or two languages. Punjabi has a much wider audience on the world stage compared to Urdu so if kids have an opportunity to learn it, they should. I love urdu because its the national language of Pakistan and I believe all my kids should be very comfortable in speaking, reading and understading Urdu. This will also help them communicate better with family back in Pakistan. All my kids speak fluent english, since this is what they picked up at school; but I also want them to learn Arabic, Spanish and hopefully French while they are growing up. No pressure, of course. Lets see.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
No I am 100% Pakistani (Punjabi on mums side, Pashtun on dads).
However I am fascinated by the Rroma, they originated in Punjab/Sindh and looking at them they can easily be mistaken for a Pakistani or Sikh/East-Punjabi.
When we were kids a group of rather swarthy and handsome looking gypsies use to camp in a park near our neighbourhood, our mothers use to warn us to stay well away from them incase we get kidnapped, all our White friends heeded the warning but we being being daring little Paki kids would approach them (encouraged by their Apna/Desi looks) and talk to them and play with their kids, the elders were very kind and gave us free donkey rides and the grannies gave us toffee apples... I don't know for sure if they were Rroma or not or whether or not they still spoke Rromani but I'll assume they were because they had a Desi look and were friendly to us probably due to same roots and homeland (South-Asian Subcontinent) whilst most White people here say gypsies are evil, standoffish and unfriendly..
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
Interesting…These people originated in a region which is more or less equally divided between India and Pakistan. Roma has several words sounding similar to Punjabi/Marwari/Gujarati/Sindhi and host of other dialects of this region.
*They were forced to leave their kingdom after invasions in around 7th century AD. Persecution continued till WWII. Nazis were reluctant to harm them because they considered them to be Aryans, so how can one Aryan community harm another Aryan community, but a suitable excuse was found which was purity of race and many were killed during holocaust. Church in Europe did not accept them to be worthy of embracing Christianity. In Denmark, Finland gypsy hunting was common till late 19th century. *
*Sad part of the story is that wherever they went they were mistreated and harmed. Discrimination continues even today. *
You are right they are in Pakistan as well.
The term Gypsy was coined because dim witted Europeans thought they are from Egypt.
My first encounter with a Roma took place in Frankfurt. I was buying souvenirs from a shop when the shop owner told me to be careful about my passport/wallet etc. because there are many gypsy girls in this area who engage people in conversation like’ do you have change for 100$? and will snatch your wallet and run away. I came out of the shop and was accosted by a girl looking for change, but I politely refused. She had very desi features. Wheatish complexion and dark hair.
There are many people who are trying to establish Roma-India kinship these days..you probably know that Govt. of India has been giving Person of Indian origin (PIO) status to many NRI’s but only after looking at their wealth, many Romas are trying for recognition as Indian diaspora.
Check following links for inspiration..I got these from my Roma friends.
*After their kingdom was destroyed they adopted nomadic lifestyle. They are spread almost allover the word. *
Within India, they can be seen even in South Central regions. Many people accuse them of kidnapping children or even elderly people. But that’s not right. Because of nomadic lifestyle these people have a very strong sense of sharing & caring and if they find a homeless person or abandoned person they simply adopt him such is the magnanimity of these people inspite of hardships they have been facing for so many centuries.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
You do not know the real Punjabi, hence this misconception. Its like me listening to Peshawar TV channel and think thta Pushto is like Urdu. The other day i was watching PTV Peshawar and the dude was using all urdu words interpersed with Pushto verbs. Like, “Da Shairaana ahsasaat di wa shairaana mahsoosaat di”
Punjabi is an ancient language. Urdu is just 500 years old and originated in Mughal courts while, Baba Farid was writing Punjabi poetry, nearly a thousand years ago.
So its Urdu that has taken its roots from Punjabi and not the other way round.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
You do not know the real Punjabi, hence this misconception. Its like me listening to Peshawar TV channel and think thta Pushto is like Urdu. The other day i was watching PTV Peshawar and the dude was using all urdu words interpersed with Pushto verbs. Like, "Da Shairaana ahsasaat di wa shairaana mahsoosaat di"
Punjabi is an ancient language. Urdu is just 500 years old and originated in Mughal courts while, Baba Farid was writing Punjabi poetry, nearly a thousand years ago.
So its Urdu that has taken its roots from Punjabi and not the other way round.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
Punjabi is a central Asian language and Urdu is a Bharati language- zameen-aasman ka farq hai. Punjabi was the language many people thought during independence shud have been made the national language.. but it never happened
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
Braj, Punjabi, Pothwari, Urdu/Hindi, Hindko, Multani, Sindhi etc. are all mutually intelligible so they are dialects of the same language and they all have their roots in Pakistan and a bit of NW India.
No they arent. What kind of Urdu/Punjabi have you been hearing?
The Urdu that people speak in Punjab itself is full of Punjabi words and gramatical constructs....I think a lot of Punjabi speakers have a tendency to blend the two languages together, especially if theyre from an urban area. Karachi Urdu, however, is largely unintelligible from Punjabi...and definitely has very little in common with Sindhi.
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
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Punjabi is an ancient language. Urdu is just 500 years old and originated in Mughal courts while, Baba Farid was writing Punjabi poetry, nearly a thousand years ago.
So its Urdu that has taken its roots from Punjabi and not the other way round.
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Several generations of Punjabi speakers shrieked with pain in their graves (qabar mein taDap gayein) after you posted this. My God!!!
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No they arent. What kind of Urdu/Punjabi have you been hearing?
The Urdu that people speak in Punjab itself is full of Punjabi words and gramatical constructs....I think a lot of Punjabi speakers have a tendency to blend the two languages together, especially if theyre from an urban area. Karachi Urdu, however, is largely unintelligible from Punjabi...and definitely has very little in common with Sindhi.
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Sorry I phrased my sentence wrong, I didn't mean to say Punjabi is a sub-dialect of Urdu or anything, rather Punjabi and Urdu are dialects of the same language...
I'm well aware that Urdu/Hindi is a very recent dialect, whereas Punjabi is the ancienter dialect and Urdu/Hindi has its roots in Punjabi.
Punjabi came before Urdu/Hindi just as Pothwari/Hindko came before Punjabi but they are all mutually intelligible so they're the same language..
I've met some Urdu speaking people who like to claim Urdu is Iranian because it has so many Persian words in it, they just make me laughhh...
Re: Why Punjabis Do Not Speak Punjabi With Their Kids
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You do not know the real Punjabi, hence this misconception. Its like me listening to Peshawar TV channel and think thta Pushto is like Urdu. The other day i was watching PTV Peshawar and the dude was using all urdu words interpersed with Pushto verbs. Like, *"Da Shairaana ahsasaat di wa shairaana mahsoosaat di"
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Pashto has a very rich vocabulory of its own and doesn't need to borrow from anyone, unlike the artficial dialects such as Urdu but if it does then they become shared vocbulory, they're not just Urdu's property because Urdu borrow its vocabulory from all over the world anyway, the common words are all Persian/Arabic origin anyway..
but Pashto with paternal family and Punjabi with maternal grandparents.
