Why oh why!

[bride2be]

@sumorani

So as far as spending money is concerned, I say go out and spend whatever you want to as long as you don't go into debt. If the parents of the bride want to give gifts (jahez) out of happiness (and not duty or saving face) to the inlaws, go ahead and give them. However, as far as DEMANDING gifts for inlaws or furniture, house cars, etc. is concerned, that has to stop.

exactly. the show-sha gift giving/rcving demands/drama needs to just stop. dil karey tau de do, but to save face or feeling obligated to do it, is plain ridiculous.

what i wanted to splash out on...I did....but I had to compromise by spending less in other areas which I understood. ppl have to look at there own pockets and haisiyet.

exactly...

to be honest, my parents spoke to ppl (friends, families) regarding wedding costs and some seriously high numbers seemed to be a very "normal" and expected amount. they were very kind mashaAllah mashaAllah because they were willing to spend since the high numbers seemed obligatory. i was finding it absurd, so i set myself a very very reasonable budget on my own-- cut there budget significantly, down to a little more than one-fourth of it, and decided i was going to stick to it, come what may. i did a lot lot lot of research, bargained (i was in pakistan) and got alhamdulillah everything in a little bit less than even my own budget. this ofcourse saved myself and my parents hard-earned money. i did my mehendi at home and it was sooooo much fun. i had a full setup, with dhol walas, a dj, decor, yummy food. i got hugeeee discounts on my wedding reception venue, dinner, my dress, my jewelry, invites, the decor. in fact, in my own budget, i even got all the rooms in the house up to code-- any maintenance that had to be done, beddings for the guests, making arrangements for the ridiculous bijli situation that was (and still is) going on.
alhamdulillah, after lots of rough waters, a lot of running around like a crazy person, everything came together and mashaAllah we all had a good time.
all this was possible, and still is, because i shopped around for good deals, didnt invite 1500 people, not buy more clothes than i needed for jahez nor do any crazy lena-dena customs whatsoever. my husband wanted to give thank u gifts to my immediate family and so he did. i gave farewell gifts to my immediate in-laws because i wanted to when they were leaving and that was it. no demands. no lambi lists. why put the pressure on anyone!

[Sara516]

@chanda_kh

sara, the purpose of this thread is far beyond the wedding day!
its not about getting things you can afford…but the attitude the principles and the habits, involved while planning for a wedding, of the parents, inlaws, the brides and the grooms!

No one is criticizing anyone’s wedding day…or putting limits on the venue, the decor, the food. Its not fair to assume that this thread is putting down someone’s dreams of having a great wedding day!

Listen, I don’t disagree with anyone, I think eVryone brought up great points, from all sides and there are some great examples of working your wedding in your budget…but Im just trying to look at things from a different angle.

IMO…the real test is for the brides to be who have to battle not only outside pressure but their OWN wants/desires. I’ve seen that alot of the posts generally assume the pressure for overspending comes from outsiders…but sometimes it can come from within as well…Battling your own self is harder than battling outsiders i think. What girl truly doesnt want the designer stuff, beautiful decor, great makeup, jewelery etc? It just happens that some girls have an easier time controlling and limiting themselves than others.

When you see everyone talking about what they have, be it material things such as designer joras or gold, or intangible things such as nice in laws and happy married lives…it’s natural to want the same for yourself. It may be that wanting better material goods than what’s in your reach is immature or irresponsible and mateiralstic…but that’s the reality. Not every bride who gets married is financially independent and/or has parents willing to pay for everything.

I just think it has to go both ways. If everyone should be smart enough to spend within their means and a reasonable amount, than others should be understanding enough that hey, this si why so and so is copying you…cz what u had is good enough to be emulated.

For those who stood up to pressure and had their weddings the way they wanted them to, and found ways to cut corners, all the power to them. :k:

Good day :k:

[naqsa]

Re: Why oh why!

Bride-2-be- ^ Good job! What an excellent example to follow and keep in mind!

[somegroovychick]

Re: Why oh why!

sara, good post!

[pakifairy]

Re: Why oh why!

sara- i totally agree. i think the bride needs to contain her own greed and battles from within so she doesn't become a demanding bridezilla

[chanda_kh]

Re: Why oh why!

sara i totally get the part concerning the importance of battling greed!
Ok, granted the bride is spending on 100 outfits and 100 tolas of gold due to outside pressure or miscellaneous "haw hais" as well as because of some sort of compulsive spending disorder...
how is this attitude different from overly demanding inlaws to be, who are finding the wedding an excuse to acquire gifts for the same purpose as the bride and her family?? same agenda, different people! greed has blinded both parties...
Battling greed is very hard! how can a bride look into her inlaws eyes and say no to their demands for car, furniture, expensive china, appliances..and expensive gifts for the groom's entire family..when she HERSELF has shown no self restraint?
i dont remember the saying...but it had something to do with "bhookay people gobble, and fuller ones nibble" :)

*Again, this is not directed towards the wedding day, but to the unfortunate expenditures that families/brides/grooms allow themselves to commit, either by "outside pressure," or at the hands of their own misjudgments and poor planning.

[chanda_kh]

Re: Why oh why!

also, the question certainly is not.... "why not let future brides have what we had...for the wedding day..'
the question is how can we let them know we DIDNT conform to pressures!! and give in to some stupid aunties at parties, or the demands of our inlaws, or expectations of everyone around us! it is way too easy to get carried away when all eyes are on you.....but your inlaws are carrying around the same mentality..and demanding because of pressures and expectations in their social circle....
to break away from one circle means, breaking away from it altogether for the rest of your life!!! like i said earlier, one no is better than giving in a hundred times!!

[chanda_kh]

Re: Why oh why!

Tales of Ordinary Madness **
**on jahez & joras
By Sarah S.

i think i have finally figured it out: it isn't marriage itself that i have a problem with, it's the desi way of doing it that pisses me off. in most cases, there are numerous dholkis, a mehndi, a mayoun, the main shaadi reception, the valima...all these are functions which are hosted by the bride's family (with the exception of the valima). close friends and relatives are expected to attend each one, wearing new clothes every day, while the bride's family has to provide the food and entertainment.

and then, there's the dowry (jahez, in urdu).

now no one in pakiland ever ACTUALLY uses that word and almost every guy's family graciously points out right in the beginning "we just want your daughter, please don't worry about the dowry". but OF COURSE the bloody pakis worry about it...they have to, because "what would the society say if they didn't give their daughter anything??".

i have been laughing all of this year at my bestfriend, whose wedding date was set for a year from the day the families said yes to each other (it's not an arranged marriage but the parents always have to approve). her mom, who had probably been hoarding things from the day M. was born, went berserk and started to buy joras upon joras (desi dresses). once that was done, she moved on to buying stuff for M's apartment. in fact, M was even sent to foreign land to purchase dinner sets, gold, duvets, pots & pans and every goddamn thing you can think of. and now, they're even insisting on buying the couple a house because a 3 bedroom apartment is just not good enough for their daughter.

on one hand, this is absolutely fantastic, because the young couple gets to save a ton of money. on the other, the reasons for this are very suspect...its still all about show, society and 'my gifts for my daughter are better than yours'.

honestly, to me, the desi system is disgusting and repulsive.

my parents consider themselves pretty modern and liberal. they don't like the idea of dowry. yet, my sister got at least 30 joras made for her wedding and my parents bought tons of **** for her house. they spent an insane amount on these gifts, the gold jewellery and the celebrations.

her marriage lasted 6 weeks while fighting over the stuff they gave her lasted 6 months.

again, disgusting and completely, utterly repulsive.

and the reason why i am so exhausted and irritated by my own marriage is because i had to fight so much to do it in a non-desi way. there isn't a single function aside from the dinner/reception (which is also against my wishes). there is no dowry, there are no joras (aside from the wedding dress and one for the day before) or jewellery (i am going to wear what we have at home). there is not going to be a valima. and my parents are allowed to give me one single gift (just like every other guest at the wedding will).

i am so tempted to allow them to sponsor my entire furniture. and refusing the diamond set or the armani suit was no fun. it IS difficult for a young couple with virtually zero savings to get an apartment and set it up, but i personally think it is pathetic that we allow our parents to drain their bank accounts by doing it all for us. we can't pick and choose when we want to be independent. it is no ****ing wonder that daughters are still such a burden in desiland because none of us ever make an effort to put a stop to this madness. for the parents, their daughters lives lead up to this moment, when they get married and leave home (in style). and to have them prepare and worry about it literally since our birth is horrible.

i know i sound like a self-righteous ***** but seriously, if the educated lot continues all these vile traditions that should have died off a long time ago, is it really a shock that even in this day and age, a daughters birth is often mourned, merely because it is synonymous with dowry & wedding expenses?

i know my parents are disappointed right now, but i am really glad i fought to do things my way because i would have felt like such a hypocrite if i had gone ahead and done it desi style, just cause it's so much easier. you can not decry bride-burning, dowry-deaths, killing of newborn baby girls, and all these extremely real problems in our part of the world, and then go on to give your own parents a heart attack over how much they have to spend on a day that should have nothing to do with money.

[naqsa]

Re: Why oh why!

^ Very good post. I'm glad that there are more people out there who think this way. I'm relazing more than ever that part of the blame rests on the bride and groom's shoulders. We should refuse to indulge in these customs. But of course, it's much easier said than done.

[chanda_kh]

Re: Why oh why!

Very true naqsa!
so...i made my husband read this thread and he was ecstatic that desis are making an effort to reduce the manic and obsessive habits that I agree are very hard to let go......yes we are trying!

We discussed abuse by the inlaws, the brides or the grooms...in the name of weddings..or for whatever reason.
It is not about what you do with your money, but how you abuse it to promote cultural (voluntary or involuntary) stupidity!

I totally agree with this girl!! I wouldnt call such people educated but the nouveau riche, aka "bhookay" prove to be the most hypocritical...
They tend to follow the same jahil traditions, with added glitter and pomp....making it an issue of "we can afford this, thus its ok" and arguing that they do it because they have the money to support such idiotic practices!

[naqsa]

Re: Why oh why!

^ Right. And what's worse is taht it becoem a cycle that continues...wheer does it stop? Where does one draw the line at what is enough? It's so much hassle and stress that WE put ourselves in. BTW...I loved your idea of having 4 parties instead of visiting each home individually. Saves time, hassle, and money that could be spend else where. And it creates less burden on the hosts.

[Reha]

Re: Why oh why!

I think it should be a joint effort every girl should feel responsible for.

I didnt take jehez or tons of gold with me even though my mom wanted me to. She thought I would embarass her but if inlaws cant accept me how I am...then what is the point? I left most of it for my sister and took a few small things that were given to my mom from my grandfather...I loved him and wanted a part of him and a jhoomer/tika my grandmother made for me...wouldnt leave that behind for the world. Basically, things that were of sentimental value to me and I want to pass on to my kids someday. I took clothes because I needed them after the wedding. And thats it.

Because some of us CAN spend...others end up HAVING to spend. You cant change things overnight...its an effort all of us make one at a time. No need for jehez...this goes for the DILs and MILs. If you want to take presents with you, no need to display them for the world to see.

The reason I am SO anti-jehez is because I saw something once I will never forget.

I went to a wedding years ago...the nikah was in the mosque and the reception was held in the basement of the mosque. There was no separate banquet hall. The bride's mother did not have a lot of gold for the girl to wear...her jhoomer and tika was made by hand by her best friend out of old necklaces...there was no beauty parlor or professional make up (she was still a STUNNING bride)...no professional award winning photographer...no manicure/pedicure...no designer bridal or jehez clothes from her parents and she didnt ask. She didnt even have an engagement/wedding ring. Her wedding was the simplest affair Ive ever seen.

She is Mashallah one of the happiest girls Ive ever seen. Her husband treats her like a princess...she only has to point at something and its hers. She has her own home, does what she wants, husband that dotes on her, family that loves her, etc...all the blessings in life are hers...Mashallah. Its like Allah swt rewarded her for having sabr in such a way even Im speechless. She has beautiful children that are even MY pride and joy Mashallah...lol. Ladies, none of the stuff we insist on for the wedding day will stay with us or help us through our marriages so let it go.

Even if you have enough to have a lavish wedding...be brave enough NOT to...for your own sake and for every other girl out there.

[augustsunshine]

sara- i totally agree. i think the bride needs to contain her own greed and battles from within so she doesn't become a demanding bridezilla

Completely agree pakifairy! Girls need to step back and actually THINK at how ridiculous their obsessions and demands can seem. They become too obsessed with the SHOW that they forget the significance of the wedding day!

They tend to follow the same jahil traditions, with added glitter and pomp....making it an issue of "we can afford this, thus its ok" and arguing that they do it because they have the money to support such idiotic practices!

Yeah I am also annoyed at how people justify degrading practices like jahez by saying that we can afford it, so why shouldn't we? You shouldn't because it's WRONG! Why do you want to DEGRADE yourself? Why do you want to spoon feed your husband with your parents money?? Your husband should be capable of providing for you and you both can work and set up your place once married! And you must be kidding yourself if you claim that the 'exchange of gifts' is there to show love between the families and welcome the bride and groom to the family. I often see the guy's family giving NO gifts and the bride's family burdened with this gift-giving responsiblity. And if gift giving did create 'warm feelings', then the countless problems regarding in-laws would have never come up! People give sooo much to the in-laws only to have the in-laws compare, complain and criticize! it's all about SHOW! The gold, the countless outfits, the gifts to all the in-laws....

White people have extravagant weddings too. Most spend a LOT on their wedings and often their expenses are much much more than our weddings coz of their expensive vendors. But see they celebrate their wedding day, enjoy it and call it a day regardless of whether the parents or the couple pays for it. They aren't engaged in these pathetic customs of show and giving gifts and gold to their in-laws. The wedding is about the couple and the parents, families and in-laws join in their celebration. I am not saying their weddings or marriages are perfect but it's just an example of what we all are trying to say. It's not the wedding day that's bothersome to us.......it's the pathetic practices of showing off and outdoing others that leads to bitterness, competition, jealousy and never ending DRAMA. And then people actually go and defend themselves saying hey if we have the money, we can engage in these practices, thus continuing the vicious cycle once again!

[chanda_kh]

Re: Why oh why!

^primitive i say!!! such a shame!! why dont they understand you cant "buy" respect...whether its the parents or the brides....its like they are trying to buy future...which is virtually impossible...
manic spending is NOT proportional to gaining respect...rather its the other way around!

Girls who are afraid of circumstances of saying no, I know you keep thinking "its better said than done" but I thought that too! I would never have married into a family who has no shame in asking for jahez and caused problems by threatening to break rishta! so what!!! i have no shame in telling everyone WHY I broke the rishta!! they didnt break it because of me...or MY faults! infact i would proudly get myself out of the situation.
*It happened to my cousin, she was engaged to someone, arranged and all...the guys's mother came by with a list(included everything from rebuilding a hardwood floor of her ENTIRE home to constructing an "annex" next to the existing house...car etc)...and my uncle told them off, and broke the engagement right there and then! saying "if your can son drive the car he already has, my daughter has absolutely no problem riding with him in that car." Now she is married, and her MIL, is Alhamdulilah the nicest lady you will ever meet. She made my aunt promise that she will not give anything to anyone, except her daughter! Both parties are very well off MA....and that fact has had no effect on their behavior or their attitudes.

[candy_apple]

Re: Why oh why!

^ I'm bewildered that people are actually so greedy and screwed in the head that they would ask for things like that

I honestly NEVER knew that bari/jehez consisted of anything other than clothing. I thought the whole purpose of it was so the bride has stuff to wear to functions after marriage. I even asked my mom to get me 11-13 suits from Pakistan (which I paid for), because I have very few desi clothes and will definetly need these after the wedding as my fiance has a huge family. But furniture, cars, and fixing houses is just OTP.

[chanda_kh]

Re: Why oh why!

whats more bewildering candy_apple, is the attitude of people! I personally know of some who voluntarily project image of being this way. Parading around shamelessly thinking money makes them privileged, and spending=respect. ( I also know people that are the complete opposite...MashAllah)

[midnighteyes]

[QUOTE]

but i personally think it is pathetic that we allow our parents to drain their bank accounts by doing it all for us. we can't pick and choose when we want to be independent. it is no ****ing wonder that daughters are still such a burden in desiland because none of us ever make an effort to put a stop to this madness. for the parents, their daughters lives lead up to this moment, when they get married and leave home (in style). and to have them prepare and worry about it literally since our birth is horrible.

i know i sound like a self-righteous ***** but seriously, if the educated lot continues all these vile traditions that should have died off a long time ago, is it really a shock that even in this day and age, a daughters birth is often mourned, merely because it is synonymous with dowry & wedding expenses?

i know my parents are disappointed right now, but i am really glad i fought to do things my way because i would have felt like such a hypocrite if i had gone ahead and done it desi style, just cause it's so much easier. you can not decry bride-burning, dowry-deaths, killing of newborn baby girls, and all these extremely real problems in our part of the world, and then go on to give your own parents a heart attack over how much they have to spend on a day that should have nothing to do with money.
[/QUOTE]

SO TRUE!!
She should submit this as an op-ed to every paper in Pakistan!!!!!!!!

[Reha]

Re: Why oh why!

I cant believe how greedy people are...sick sick sick.

[pulchritudinous]

Having just started viewing these threads I have noticed that we love to comment on the choices people make when it comes to not buying the "authentic" designer dress or the poor choice in jewelry. We need to change ourselves and appreciate the choices that others have made in choosing to bypass the expensive boutiques and choosing dresses/jewelry that are not price tagged in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. We are the ones that stimulate the minds of other members on these forums and elsewhere by stating why is the fabric of that dress cheap? That's all the jewelry your parents gave you for your wedding? I mean come on!! There are brides out there who wear simple items and have simple weddings yet they are content. Why say on these threads and elsewhere demeaning things?

I am not married yet but my parents are already stressing over the financial burden of my wedding. I am not saying that I want my wedding to be plain and simple. I desire the same things that others desire for but I know that I am limited in resources. This is the reason why I don't want to get married in Pakistan. Why? Because everyone there is obsessed over the idea of competition. Competition not in intellect, not in knowledge, not in deen but in FINANCIAL wealth! My dad is in politics and a few family members from one of the former prime ministers of Pakistan came to our house. The daughter was talking about the extravagant way families spend money on weddings. She was stating how you must have a wedding in a tent otherwise you will look cheap. You must have hoards of flowers otherwise the venue is plain. You must have a minimum of 4 to 5 major venues planned for the wedding festivities.

One must afford what one can and not over spend on items that are worthless and useless. However even in the US the fashion of extravagance has arrived. There was an article done by a celebrity wedding planner who planned a wedding on a budget. He stated that if you are on a tight budget heed the advice of choosing a venue where very little needs to be done. Don't choose venues of prime ministers, president's, celebrities because you as well as majority of the world cannot afford what they can.

Overall, we cannot change everyone nor can we choose the qualities we want in our in laws. We can pray but we must also use our brains and understand that we are not going to get everything we want. Have the wedding of your dreams the way you want and forget all opposition/opinions of your choices! :)

[candy_apple]

Re: Why oh why!

Curious to know what you guys think of the "jhoota chopai" tradition?

I personally think we can do without. Why try to get money out of the groom (especially if he paid for his side of the events himself)? Weddings are expensive as is...and then people try to get free money based on these sorts of traditions...I don't know, I just don't think it is right. Your thoughts?