Why oh why!

Re: Why oh why!

Great article!

Marriage in Islam: The reality of the dowry custom
By Sadaf Farooqi

It all starts with the birth of a girl.

"When news is brought to one of them, of (the birth of) a female (child), his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief."

[Quran - Surah Al-Nahl 16:58-59]

Preference for sons prevails mostly in India, China, Pakistan and the Gulf States. Deliberate abortion of female fetuses is not rare: every year, approximately a million female abortions are reported in India alone.
"When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned - For what crime was she killed?" [Quran - Surah Al-Takveer 81:8-9]

Its not just men who perceive births of girls this way: women - themselves daughters - are also perpetrators of the "sons-are-better" ideology. Reasons for this are several. One of them is the anticipation of a future financial burden on the father's shoulders. A girl has to be provided for by her guardian: she does not mature into a breadwinner; rather, she goes into another family. Thanks to the Hindu custom of jahaiz' or dowry, marrying a girl off after she has been raised can be an even bigger hurdle. The father starts stressing years in advance about how he will provide each of his daughters a proper' dowry.

Dowry is an amount of money, goods or possessions given to the bride by her family at the time of her marriage, in order to attract a good husband for her. In effect, it becomes the property of the husband or his family after marriage. The matter of fathers happily giving their daughters gifts of money or property, paying for an enormous wedding feast, or providing them a home, furniture and household belongings, should be left to their own discretion. However, girls are given dowry because they are deliberately left out of the family inheritance. Islam enjoins that each heir be given his share of inheritance; it also prohibits ostentation, extravagance and unlawful acquisition of wealth. The custom of dowry involves all three of these vices to some extent.

A "gift" is something someone happily and willingly gives to another, it is not "demanded". When jahaiz is demanded by the bridegroom's family, its a way of acquiring wealth by twisting another's arm: a base behavior to which an Allah-fearing Mu'min would never stoop. How can one expect a marriage to be blessed when the relationship between the two clans is initiated like a business transaction, with each party trying to maximize its own profit?

Even if the bridegroom's family wants to adhere to Islamic injunctions and renounces dowry, the bride's excited mother, aunts, and grandmothers insist on the custom. The absence of a grand trousseau and luscious banquet displayed to their entire social circle is a sign of disgrace for them, because "What will people think?"

Hearsay at weddings involves typical questions: "How many dresses have been made for her trousseau?", "How much did the crockery set cost?", "How many jewelry sets did she get?"

The bride is sometimes trained to treat everything provided by her in-laws with disdain. She starts her married life expecting only her parents to "proudly" provide her with everything she needs. Gifts given by the in-laws are usually discarded or not used.

In Islam, it is the husband who provides for his wife after marriage. He has to give her a gift of wealth known as dower or Mahr, which the Quran describes as a "fareedah" an obligatory due.

"And give women their dower as a free gift, but if they of themselves be pleased to give up to you a portion of it, then eat it with enjoyment and with wholesome result."
[An-Nisaa' 4:4]

"And lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage, not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowers as appointed;"
[An-Nisaa' 4:24]

Whenever a Companion would request to get married, Prophet Muhammad [SAW] would ask him what he had which could serve as Mahr. When Ali [RA] was marrying Fatimah [RA], the Prophet [SAW] went so far as to help him provide modest household items for her, as he was the latter's guardian. This proves that if a Muslim bridegroom needs help in setting up a home for marriage, he should be helped, especially by his own guardian.

Sometimes the bride's family demands an exorbitant Mahr for her, negating the spirit of ihsaan endorsed by Islam. This makes it difficult for younger men to marry, thus opening the door to evils such as dating and fornication.

Prevalence of the dowry custom not only jeopardizes the lives of future female infants and makes getting married difficult for girls in general, it also gets transferred as a menace to the lower-income groups. Despite the existence of laws that prohibit excessive dowry, it is not unusual to find every household maid under severe pressure to "honorably marry off" her daughters. She goes asking door-to-door for monetary help, incurring huge debts in order to throw lavish wedding feasts and to display the expected level of dowry.

What can we do to eradicate this custom? The Government of Pakistan passed a law the Dowry and Bridal Gifts Restriction Act in 1976, that prohibited dowry above a specific amount to little effect. Existence of laws can only be effective if people have taqwa. Only if Muslim families truly fear Allah when performing marriages, can a change come about. How?

  • By giving precedence to piety over materialism, Allah's pleasure over people's expectations, and fully trusting in Allah for girls' well-being after marriage.
  • Not asking questions about dowry when attending a wedding.
  • Remembering that girls are provided for and protected by the Best of Providers: Allah.

Even if a few marriages take place with an average Mahr and no dowry, the bridal couple accepting an initially mediocre standard of living, can a trend be set for others to follow suit.

Maybe then the birth of a daughter would bring genuine happiness.

I'd like to share just one more thought.

If you can afford to buy a $25,000 bridal dress and splurge $50,000 in jewelery, SPLENDID MASHALLAH. No body has any right to direct you on how to spend your hard-earned money. But, why do you think people, who disagree with this kind of expenditure, are trying to point finger at you. They are only stating their viewpoint that just happens to be opposite of your opinion.

However, regardless of the fact that I can afford to go that way, I would not do it and Chanda is trying to say the same, I think. I do not know about anyone else here on GS but I do know that there are quite a few people in my family in Pakistan, maids, servants, etc. who can put this kind of money into a way better use. Not every family in my relatives is multi-millionaire and there is a big possibility for girls of those families to experience inferiority complex and I don't blame them for that. It's just human nature.

Amen to that sister!

If you and I can break away from such traditions and put our foot down for what's fair and practical, anyone can! and I hope God gives everyone the will power to transcend this pettiness and rise above it all.

Well said!! :) I don't know why people think they are being attacked just because we happen to have a difference in opinion.

Re: Why oh why!

^Agree, and why make it just about clothes and jewelry- it should apply to everything including hotel/venue, decorations, stage, favors, etc etc. If moderation is the way, it should be done in every aspect. Why have a wedding at a hotel when you can easily do it at a smaller place, even masjid? That seems to be a norm too, booking the best hotels, spending thousands on decor, lighting, flowers, dj, etc etc. That's one of the traditions besides dowries that promote extensive spending and should be cut down on.

And the brides here who already had a wedding- how much did you spend on your dress, jewelry, venue, decor, etc etc? What did you do yourself to make sure things are done in a simple way without spending thousands, like this thread is addressing? Im sure any tips shared would be great and helpful for the rest here.

Re: Why oh why!

:) wishkamar
I would rather spend my life saying no to such people than giving in!! I swear..no lies!
and I would rather put aunties with their "haw hais" down than "impress" them with my never ending wardrobe or whatever! i dont know why educated girls of TODAY think they are worth it!!
i am referring to the posted article

Readers:
We are not discussing the wedding party! the venue or the decor!
we are discussing demands,expenditures,jahez, bari, gift giving rasams, gloating grooms, and brides gone wild....etc etc!
no one is talking about having their wedding at the masjid...(although its wonderful!! MA)
the discussion did however talk about multiday weddings that seem to be a bore after day3..same people..same same same...it gets redundant...

Re: Why oh why!

^ yup and more importantly we're talking about B-A-L-A-N-C-E

Have a nice, classy wedding with your loved ones, don't go overboard, don't lose sight of the more important things in life, don't make any demands from in-laws, don't burden your family and don't go wild with shopping. Trust me, the wedding is not the only opportunity when you'll get to buy stuff. There will be tons and tons of opportunities!

Re: Why oh why!

i know. a wedding isn't about pouring a bucket of glitter everywhere. it's about a union a love and that should be the one shining point of the wedding. not the demands.

of course!! planning is the key, we did most of the work ourselves...I researched ALOT, and talked to A LOT of vendors, getting prices matched, bargaining, wholesale flowers, and friends!!
We did our mehndi at home..it was beautiful!!! i saved tons of money..and got to spend it on flowers...because i always wanted lots of them! plus we had desi/italian appetizers for mehndi night with kashmiri chai...and lots of desserts :)

I worked on my reception flowers so much that mom had to rub bengay on my back to straighten it...no sleep, lots of work.....trips to flower wholesalers....the rented truck was a great idea!!
did my own makeup
my dress was discounted since i got all my other outfits from the same lady!! not different designers...(good tip to save money)
had my brothers and cousins set up the ballroom with the help of the hotel staff.
food --menu was wonderful..within our budget...
my invites were by an amature business woman...who had just started her letterpress business...got a great deal!!

Alhamdulilah everything was within our budget!! and I only made 10 suits..repeated a few twice!! NO one said anything about them..even though i saw 3-4 families..over again..at each get-together!
basically I saved close to $10,000 by planning and working around my options.

Re: Why oh why!

me and my husband paid for our own weddings, we didn't have fantastic venues, OTT decor etc etc because we knew we had to stay within our limits. We told our families from day one we wanted no help financially - they do so much for us and work all there lives and have educated us to be able for us to stand on our own two feet - they should save that money for there future - i mean anything can happen such as ill health etc etc when money is needed. what i wanted to splash out on...I did....but I had to compromise by spending less in other areas which I understood. ppl have to look at there own pockets and haisiyet. my mum to this day tells me off that 'she never gave me anything' and I say u have given me everything and I just need her duas - whats money at the end of the day. it doesnt buy happiness.

Re: Why oh why!

Forgive me but isn't it a bit hypcoritical when we criticize those for wanting designer dresses, a lavish wedding etc, when we ourselves already had nice weddings and functions?
I think if you take the pains and make the effort to throw a great wedding, even if you can afford it, someone who can't afford the same will want it just as much as you do. And why shouldn't they? If you have something nice, people are bound to want to copy you, so why not at least set an example then and go for something simple?

It's so easy to talk about these righteous things once your wedding is done and over with, but the real test comes for the brides-to-be, who can actually keep their heads on. And hey while we may not agree iwth them, at least more power to the ones who are honest about what htey want.

Re: Why oh why!

Sara the issue is about looking at your own personal limits, and what u can realistically do......copying others when u cannot afford too is irresponsible.

Re: Why oh why!

Paying for the whole wedding by yourselves (bride and groom) is not necessarily the first step towards independence and neither does it mean that just because you two are paying, you will not be pressured into spending on things you think are unnecessary and only to conform to tradition.

From my side, my parents paid for everything which was natural since I pretty much never had a real job. When I got married I was still in college so there was no way I could pay for it. Still, my parents paid for everything because they felt it was their responsibility. Same way when kids go to college, even though the kids may take out loans, if the parents can, they usually do pay for as much as they can. My parents wanted to pretty much pay for everything including furniture, china, pretty much everything that is included in jahez.

My husband however, didn't like that idea at all and thought it was ridiculous for my parents to be paying for anything in our home. At the end, there was a balance. However, from the groom's side, he paid for practically everything and still his dad pressured him into paying thousands more on tickets and hotel rooms for their relatives in pakistan.

My husband and I are independent, financially of our parents, now but just because you are paying for the wedding yourself doesn't mean you will not be pressured into such customs.

In addition, there was a lot of money spent on the wedding as usually is the case. I 'persuaded' my husband to increase his budget for the engagement ring more than 4 fold. Not only because the engagement ring was possibly the most imp thing to me but the ring I liked was definitely not near his budget. I wasn't putting any undue pressure on him, I knew he could afford it and in the end he did and he loved the ring as well.

So as far as spending money is concerned, I say go out and spend whatever you want to as long as you don't go into debt. If the parents of the bride want to give gifts (jahez) out of happiness (and not duty or saving face) to the inlaws, go ahead and give them. However, as far as DEMANDING gifts for inlaws or furniture, house cars, etc. is concerned, that has to stop.

Re: Why oh why!

and there in lies the responsibility of setting a good example. Several people have mentioned this before, trying to set an example in their own family and circle of not spending wastefully...even if they can afford it.

If you (generally) don't think it's your responsibility to set an example, fine.....but then why rant about others going out of their way to have what you had?

Re: Why oh why!

thats true sumo.....in my experience.....what I have found doing my wedding business in the UK is that couples who are paying for the weddings themselves have a totally different budget in mind for the wedding than those who parents are paying for it. for e.g they want a nicer honeymoon, not bothered about having a gold set, etc etc. when i have visited famlies whose parents are paying....when it comes to discussing prices for wedding cakes/favours/djs etc etc they are in shock at the prices - where as a couple doing it themselves are more realistic of the costs involved. However, every family and bride/groom are different!

so true! i've noticed this too here in the us (though i don't own a business ;) congrats girl)

Re: Why oh why!

I dont think the issue here is the wedding day....people please dont read over the issues and points that is being discussed and looked over.

sara, the purpose of this thread is far beyond the wedding day!
its not about getting things you can afford...but the attitude the principles and the habits, involved while planning for a wedding, of the parents, inlaws, the brides and the grooms!

No one is criticizing anyone's wedding day...or putting limits on the venue, the decor, the food. Its not fair to assume that this thread is putting down someone's dreams of having a great wedding day!

Sara I don't think any of the people who responded and supported the abolition of these practices have had lavish weddings and spent thousands on 30 designer outfits. I think all these people have a clear conscience. They've had nice weddings, sure but not weddings where they've gone buck wild and spent every penny on five functions and given gifts even to the in-laws' pet dog.

Everyone wants different things...I love HSY bridals but I am never ever getting a 6000 bridal even if I have a million dollars stashed in my account. Others are very particular about their bridal outfit and would rather splurge on that than say the wedding decor. I love wedding decor and want a really nice ambiance so I am honestly looking for a cheap wedding dress that still looks nice so that I can spend on my decor.

It's ALL about what makes you AND your husband happy. The wedding is about YOU and your husband, no one else, not even your parents. They had their day when they got married. Giving gifts and jewelry to relatives, wanting countless outfits for your jahez, complaining about how the bari outfits are sub-par and criticizing the jewelry the in-laws have given is what's disturbing and totally missing the POINT of WHY you're getting married. You are NOT getting married to flaunt your outfits and show how 'generous' you are by giving gifts to your in-laws and their pet dog! I am only engaged but there is noo gift-exchanging going on at my wedding and fortunately both my family and my in-laws support this. The wedding is about me and my husband only!

And we never ever criticized people who want to spend away and buy countless outfits. You're free to do whatever you want but people get soooo obsessed with measuring every ton of gold and assessing the quality of every outfit and making sure they have a new outfit for every dawat that they forget the importance of stepping into the most important phase of their life. And that DOES create a lot of 'bud mazgi' even before you start your married life. And that is what irks me.

Re: Why oh why!

^ :k: great post!

aah. not worth it.