Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
jack straw is trying to mischieve and antagonise the lives of veilled women. straw actually expects to go into the house of lords where he wont need to be voted in. needs booting out, alltogather.
hes made a problem, rather then one being there
the people his comments are popular with are extremist haters of islam and they hate to a lesser extent all non whites. the same people were appealled to, to create a support base for the war in iraq.
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
The veil does most definitely restrict interactions with other members in a marketing team or an accounting team, and many people would not feel confortable with it. A choice between a guy who's a whizz at marketing and someone who does an alright job in a veil, there's little doubt who they'd pick.
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
i expect a competitive, career minded veilled women will usually come out best. women just arnt pushovers in the workplace
You've missed the point, and I can see this is a waste of time, so if you don't have anything sensible to offer, I'll leave this thread. It's as simple as this. A boss will pick someone who works well with other people, if a woman opts for a head to toe veil, the boss will do what is in the company's interest to make a good strong team without her. That is how the system works, as anyone who has worked a single day in their lives will be able to inform you.
A competitive, career minded veiled woman from head to toe has no chance of getting any corporate job, and there's simply not enough "Islamic institutions" in the UK as it stands and certainly none of any repute, contrary to what you seem to claim. For you to be so superfical to the extent you're obsessed with veiled women makes me think it's more an act of beautification for you..
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
^no, its not an act of beutification. i simply believe in a womans right to veil. i think the questioning of this is wrong at best.
dont take this in an immature way, but do you actually talk to other apnay people? does my stance seem strange?
cos its not. the whole community is against jack straws comments.
you've actually missed my point. if a women chooses to veil then she obviously takes that into the workplace with her. 'a HR decision maker(s)' whos deciding on new recruits or for promotions will not be able to overlook a veilled women each time purely on the fact shes veilled. dont forget many veilled women are heavilly into education. even if they are overlooked its a choice they make.:)
for better community relations lets look at law and order, rascism etc. this is where the communities are being seperated, the street level thugery, drugs, gangs etc etc
its very hard to convince anyone on a forum. everyone leaves with same oppinion as they came in! you and me are no different.
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
1) To you it's an act of beautification, as you've demonstrated throughout this thread.
2) It is a woman's right to veil, where did Jack Straw say it wasnt? It seems that he said if a woman wants to see him, he doesnt want her veiled, that's his choice and it leads to social exclusion.
3) Trust me, you have your own set of friends, I have mine. We're not the same people, your ancestors just might have migrated into Pakistan from India during 1947 and lived there afterwards, but that is the only tenuous link between us. Plenty of Pakistanis do not think like you.
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you've actually missed my point. if a women chooses to veil then she obviously takes that into the workplace with her. 'a HR decision maker(s)' whos deciding on new recruits or for promotions will not be able to overlook a veilled women each time purely on the fact shes veilled. dont forget many veilled women are heavilly into education. even if they are overlooked its a choice they make.:)
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The word is spelt "heavily". On the subject of education, I don't believe there's been a study of veiling and education, but if you travel through a Muslim neighbourhood in the UK that is poor, you can see lots of veiled women. If you travel through a richer neighbourhood in the UK, you will hardly see any Muslim women wearing any form of veil.
Let's assume that lots of women veiled head to toe apply with high education (a complete fallacy, but let's humour you). You will find that there will be plenty of non veiled women (including Muslim women) willing and able to take their places. For the types of jobs we're discussing, there is no way that women that are veiled head to toe are going to be given preference if for only the reason than work colleagues would feel uncomfortable being around them if they cant see their facial expressions.
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for better community relations lets look at law and order, rascism etc. this is where the communities are being seperated, the street level thugery, drugs, gangs etc etc
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"Rascism" is pretty much illegal, and drugs, thuggery are common to all communities, not any specific one, so these are not causes of community seperation. Does the head to toe veil cause community seperation? Perhaps, perhaps not, does it socially exclude women, there's little doubts that it does.
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its very hard to convince anyone on a forum. everyone leaves with same oppinion as they came in! you and me are no different.
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So? I'm pointing out the poor reasons your giving for what you say. Nothing more.
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
As well as a sign of bravery(in this modern day and age) may I add.
if a woman wants to see him, he doesnt want her veiled.
He is not being true to his title.
The word is spelt "heavily". On the subject of education, I don't believe there's been a study of veiling and education
" I don't believe there's been a study of veiling and education"
There was never a need. Women in veils are more diciplined, polite and achieve better grades.
...there is no way that women that are veiled head to toe are going to be given preference if for only the reason than work colleagues would feel uncomfortable being around them if they cant see their facial expressions.
Women that choose to wear full veil know this perfectly well.
They are not the ones who are complaining about the attitudes of kuffar. Nor do they mind being excluded.
So? I'm pointing out the poor reasons your giving for what you say. Nothing more.
You fail to grasp simple principles and this makes your reasoning poor.
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
Then wearing a Bhindi is brave, looking Chinese is brave, looking black is brave, not wearing Niqab in Saudi Arabia is brave etc etc. If this is the definition of bravery, then we can all claim to be brave. Also there are places in the world where full face covering is the norm in modern day and age, but it's not in the UK.
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He is not being true to his title.
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He has every right to express his feelings to people. If a man from the Association for Nudists turns up, does he have to interview him if it makes him uncomfortable?
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" I don't believe there's been a study of veiling and education"
There was never a need. Women in veils are more diciplined, polite and achieve better grades.
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So no study has been done, but according to you veiled women achieve better grades. Statements without proof, and most people would laugh at it. Gitmo officials would be proud of such poor reasoning and lack of evidence. I doubt even most schools permit veiling for school uniform.
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Women that choose to wear full veil know this perfectly well.
They are not the ones who are complaining about the attitudes of kuffar. Nor do they mind being excluded.
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Let's say you are their spokesman. Let's say also they don't mind being excluded from society. Fine then. How can anyone claim they're being discriminated against when they exclude themselves from society?
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You fail to grasp simple principles and this makes your reasoning poor.
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Such as? Other people's right to express an opinion?
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
Roadrunner you're running away with you imagination.......... You're saying wealthier muslim women don't wear the veil... thats bull ****! My family knows many wealthy families and there are women in these families that observe the hijab. Your going on the pretext as in Rich white society yes women seem to wear less clothes, but it is not the same in muslim families. You need to look at this again!!!
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
Its ironic that people are arguing over someone that wants to be modest and decent! If a woman was to see Mr Straw with half her blouse undone, that doesn't matter, and a short skirt...is that fine? but a woman comes in modest and decent, this is wrong. Sorry this doesn't go anywhere! These are predudices. Its just Muslim bashing!!
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
Daniyal, by veil we're talking about Niqab, not Hijab. But I can guarantee you if you go for a walk in a poor Muslim neighbourhood (not an Arab one as all the Arabs in the UK tend to be related to oil rich people in Arab countries), almost all the women are wearing Hijab or Niqab. If you go for a walk through a richer Muslim neighbourhood, there will hardly even be a single Hijabi in view.
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
You havent got the point of anything expressed. It was more to do with not being able to see facial expressions in a visual open society, security issues, and if Jack Straw feels comfortable in seeing women in short skirts, and the women don't mind, I dont see what the problem with that is.
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
he also thinks
its extreme
stifles integration, community relations
gives false impressions of high morals
making the reasons up as he goes along
Full face cover is extreme.
It does stifle integration and community relationships.
It may or may not give false impressions of high morals depending on who wears it.
Walking around with no clothes is the exact opposite extreme to walking dressed from head to toe. You can't be denying that surely.
Re: Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil
i/we dont agree.
the veil is not extreme
its asking for privacy rather then being a threatening sign. anybody who is bothered by it, probably already has prejudices they need to address.
its not the opposite of wearing no clothes in an ethical sense