Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

Disclaimer #1: I am a lurker. I have been a gupshup member for almost twelve years but reduced to being a passive reader over the last few years. I enjoy following the PA topics and appreciate the energy you all have for such lively discussions.

Disclaimer #2: I am a “pro-stability” Pakistani expatriate. I believe that no matter who’s running the government (even dictators), that if we avoid shocking the system every couple of years, there is enough potential in our country for it to make very rapid progress. The size of our domestic market alone makes for a huge and untapped growth potential. So when I see yet another movement that is destabilizing the system (regardless of the intentions of its leader) and distracting us from undertaking any long term projects, I feel saddened and feel compelled to offer the following thoughts which will likely anger the members sympathetic to PTI.

I’ll be the first to admit that our constitution and its implementation are far from perfect. But unlike Iraq and Syria, we are fortunate to have a largely non-controversial constitution that has the consensus of all political factions in the country. Remember that a constitution is primarily just a framework that gives us methods and bounds for balancing the interests of various constituencies in the country. Pakistan is a huge country with a population of 180 million and not a small homogenous group of people. There are huge differences in political, cultural, and religious leanings among people living in different parts of the country. In the absence of a framework followed by everybody, we’ll be reduced to an Iraq or Syria like situation where every faction thinks that they are more deserving or capable (or both) of running the country. So when I see demands for resignation of the PM and dissolution of assemblies by mob force, I am taken back to the 90s where this exact cycle went on for a number of years, and created the frustration in the political environment that Imran Khan had supposedly entered to change.

I have heard some of my PTI friends justify their demands as constitutional by claiming that the ‘act of resignation’ and the ‘advice to dissolve the assemblies’ are indeed methods described in the constitution so their dharna movement is constitutional. I find this comical. The “act of withdrawing money from an ATM” is legal on its own. But you wouldn’t call it a legal act if I held a gun to your head and made you withdraw money for me. It would rightly be called a robbery which is exactly what PTI is trying to pull off right now.

AT this point, I can expect some forum members to dismiss me as a PTI hater and a “noora](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NOORA) ,” so let me get to my next set of grievances.

I was a long time Imran Khan supporter. I killed myself raising money for his hospital, and I was a huge supporter when he founded PTI. I had hoped that his message was one of “change in politics” not “change in politicians,” and sadly he has thoroughly disappointed me (and countless others). The Jiyala culture was a product of our tendencies to become fanatic in our support for a leader and not having the honesty of separating from our leader or party’s positions when they were unreasonable. Imran was supposed to liberate us from it, not bring it back in an even worse form. I am deeply offended by this “Oye Nawaz Sharif” mannerism. I had hoped that he’d nurture a more civil political atmosphere, and teach our next generation a better way to conduct themselves politically, but little did I know that Sultan Rahi was such a huge inspiration for Imran Khan.

Now about this #NayaPakistan](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NayaPakistan) and #Inqilaab](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Inqilaab) business: We are a country of 180 million people, not a small company with only a few hundreds employees. In the latter case, you could bring in a new boss to run the company and the small scale would allow him to fix all that is wrong with that organization. But in a country of 180 million people, if you magically install the perfect leader overnight, the business of life must still go on the following day. The bureaucracy with honest and dishonest people will need to come to work the next day. The corrupt and non-corrupt policemen will need to show up at their jobs. No matter the intentions, you cannot find angelic policemen, clerks, bureaucrats, doctors, teachers, administrators overnight and replace the current lot with them. Similarly, there is no magic power plant that only Imran Khan knows to switch on the very next day of his becoming the PM. All improvements we are looking for, in people and in infrastructure are gradual and will come through the ‘filtration process’ that successive elections provide us. We could hope to accelerate this filtration process by finding better people to lead us, but when I see the politicians around Imran Khan and Qadri, the slogans of revolutionary leadership seem comical at best. I don’t begrudge Imran Khan for joining hands with Chaudhery brothers, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, etc. But let’s also not deceive ourselves that are not still following the typical politicians.

On this dhandhli business: The local irregularities will never be completely eliminated from our electoral process, but we can certainly learn from each election cycle and incrementally enhance our system to maintain a high degree of confidence and transparency in the process. But let’s be honest, aside from local irregularities and a few big problem constituencies (Karachi anyone?), all local and foreign observers thought there was no industrial rigging of the results and the OVERALL outcome at the national and provincial levels seemed fair (i.e., the overall control of national and provincial assemblies, not individual seats here and there). With that said, Imran Khan’s dhandhali claims just seem delusional or dishonest. And even if he’s completely correct about this industrial scale rigging, that part of his demand to investigate via Supreme Court has already been accepted by the government. After that, holding the country hostage with demands of resignation simply seem an overplaying of his hand and eroding trust in his political maturity. He has certainly lost the support of our family

KPK had provided him an opportunity to both learn and showcase some governance skills, but unfortunately he’s eroding the trust of voters and establishment simultaneously! I was never pro- anybody, but I am certainly anti-Imran now. We need someone better and more mature to lead the country.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

  • You are right ... It should be important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

That is the problem (and demand of TUQ as well as Imran Khan).

When allowing candidates to contest election, Pakistan election commission did not followed the constitution (article 62) and thus those who do not even qualify to contest election got permission to contest election and got elected too ... but since they do not qualify to contest election constitutionally, their getting elected is illegal. Most unfortunate thing is that, most parliamentarians illegally contested election and their sitting in assembly is illegal. In this category, we have Prime Minister Nawaz Shareef, most Chief Ministers, most federal and provincial ministers ... even opposition leader and speaker.

Now lets go forward. Even if one ignores these illegal parliamentarians occupying assembly seats, most parliamentarians again become illegal after getting elected if constitutional clause 63 is applied on them.

As for running the government, again, government is not following the constitution related to providing facilities, amenities and opportunities to civilians as mentioned in constitution as civilians rights.

It seems that most parliamentarians (including Thug Nawaz) want is that, they do not follow the constitution and do not even qualify to contest election, still assume that whatever way they got into assembly, they should be considered as constitutionally holding their parliamentarian seats and government posts ... and thus they should not be kicked out of parliament (what they deserve) or even do not want to get questioned on the issue in any way.

Just imagine ... it is constitutionally given basic right of all Pakistanis that if they believe they got victimized, they can report and register crime to police with names of suspects in their opinion, and this is called FIR (First information report). This and many other basic rights of citizen is such that no amendment in constitution can change it.

It is also unconstitutional that government influence state institutions and use state institutions to victimize opponents or who they do not like ... but in case of attack on residence of TUQ at night of 17 June, trying to demolish without any court orders security safeguard constructions that were there on permission of Punjab high court, and even killed many innocent people there ... including women, old men, and children ... still, Punjab government is not allowing victims to register FIR (not only unconstitutional, but crime itself) ...

Still, Punjab government and Federal government are trying to portray that they are constitutional governments, what they are not on several counts, including the reason that most parliamentarians (including Chief Minister) were ineligible to contest election (article 62), once elected they violated clause 63 and thus disqualify to hold membership of parliament ... and now are guilty of not allowing right of Pakistani citizen to register FIR (an unconstitutional act).

So ... now what do you say?

Shouldn't these criminals who are occupying Parliamentarian seats illegally be kicked out of parliament and whatever government posts they are holding?

Wouldn't kicking these Thugs out of parliament is following the constitution, however perfect or imperfect the constitution maybe?

So you can say that, TUQ and Imran Khan is not only trying to follow the constitution, but wants that constitution is followed throughout Pakistan, and government that is constitutionally illegal should resign.

Unfortunately, government (that is constitutionally illegal) is trying to throw sand in the eyes of people and instead of following the constitution, doing everything to violate the constitution ... and they cannot do anything anyhow other than violate the constitution, because their own existence is unconstitutional.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

...

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

dig a lot.

nahhh

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

I am sorry…you are talking way too sensibly…not acceptable. GO AWAY!

Soon you will be attacked by PTI trolls and will be called a noora and patwari and what not. You will be presented with a logic that will shock you…

when you will point out that assembling few thousand people in the capital and shutting down down it to take resignation of an elected PM cannot be justified in a democratic country and is against any constitutional measure and will set a very wrong precedent.… you will be yelled at and will be presented with a logic that will simplify shock you and you will be left dumbfounded…you will be told that we are getting rid of a rigged government. When pointed out that even international observers did not find any evidence of massive rigging you will be given a shut up call that imran and PTI have all proofs and we saw it on TV!

**when you will point out that imran uses extremely vulgar and offensive language starting every sentence with oyaee this and oyaee that and even threatened to kill IG Islamabad today **…you will be told “so what”…nooras and his chamchas do not understand any other language and they deserve this…

when you will point out that Imran’s electroal reforms demands are just and when govt finally crumbled under pressure and accepted all of his demands he should also give in and focus on getting those reforms implemenetd…PTI trolls will start shivering with anger and will slap you on your face asking you how dare you to ask this question…they will tell you that noora was too late in accepting our leader demands…so now no talk…and oyaee nooray resign karo!

and oh yes…when you will bring the topic of setting up a wrong precedent...you will be told hey no one else has the street power to collect so many people for so many days..only PTI can do it. So no problem it wont become an issue in future and even if it does, who cares!

hell PTI could not even win the poll at gupshup…but yet they are claiming to represent majority in its demands…lakh dee lanat!!!

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

:D ok I read a bit more.

sir dig, are you talat husain in real life ?

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

Peace Sir Dig A Lot

Yes, stability is important ... There was however a great instability in Pakistan before the march. There was the instability on the economics of the country, the basic imbalance of wealth distribution, joblessness, fraud, gambling and other despotic societal issues that have been developing and not getting less. This is because Pakistanis in general have tolerated the power hungry leaders so long as they get some saunf supari and as long as they get left alone. The type of stability that will set in if certain governments continue their actions is not improvement but a further maturation of the corruption ... To an extent that it becomes part of the ethos ... Grid-locked society will not be able to move without bribes or threats.

If this is the sort of stability you desire in Pakistan rather if this the sort of stability Pakistanis wish ... Then continue as before ... You will alienate many Pakistanis who can see what is going wrong ... As with TUQ and IK ... I agree with their incentive ... And to be honest I am surprised and delighted that all efforts so far have been violence free from the protestors ... But not violence free from the government ... None of this would have reached this stage if the constitution was followed ... Such as no rigging, such as if an accusation of rigging is levelled have an independent inquiry ... The government brought this about because they misjudged these parties for doing what others have done in the past ... Accepted the status quo for the sake of stability.

The stability is apparent only ... It is made to appear stable on a sinking ship when then media whose pockets are lined by the ultra rich sing happy tunes to the doom of the country ... IK is simply saying wake up we are sinking ... And the opposition is saying leave us alone to sleep in peace ... And we will drown in that sleep state ... Auzdubillah if we do not wake up.

I would have done things slightly differently ... But it appears there are sympathisers of his cause ... They have not yet attacked him ... despite the wishes of the government ... The police and army ranking officers may also be waking up ...

I would have have set up an anti-threat and bribery charitable investigations committee. Charity funded they report to no one, but use a deep probing method to root out threats and bribes by allowing anonymous tips and providing cameras and audio devices to people who are coming these tools of corruption. Utilisation of social media to name and shame people trying to bribe and/or threat and use of courts to convict people. I would do several other things too ... But I don't care to mention them ...

IK is perceived to be immature and impatient ... But how have the Pakistanis helped by voting in a known usurper back in to office? And if they have not voted him in ... Then what is he doing there on the kursi?

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

@Sa1eem

I'll respond to the two main points you raised.

(1) You claim that most of the elected members should have been disqualified from running based on article 62

My answer:

  • Article 62 (and 63) are poorly conceived and written. But even then, such qualification tests were indeed applied and as you may remember were the butt of many jokes.
  • The results of these judgments were inconsistent and sometimes ludicrous, but the process was followed. The inconsistency did arise from the fact that the qualification criteria wasn't just limited to "proven" disqualifications, such as prior felonies or convictions from a court, rather had some subjective criteria built in that was applied differently by different officers. How do you judge "good moral character" in a matter of days. Who issues such certificates? If you run for office, and I claim that you are of poor moral character because you write long posts on gupshup, should the authorities disqualify you?
  • In the end, your judgement that most of the assembly members shouldn't have qualified is YOUR subjective judgement. Disqualification through subjective judgement is a very convenient tool to get engineered result and is used most often in Iran.
  • I think as part of future reforms, the qualification should be made objective and not subjective so we don't have the comedy of candidates being asked to recite Quranic versus in courts. Last I checked the judgement of who is a "good" muslim was supposed to rest with God himself. But until these changes are made, these are the rules everybody AGREED to play under.

(2) Your complaints about the FIR (or lack thereof ) about the Model town incident

My answer:

  1. Let's be intellectually honest. That's not why Qadri and Imran are protesting, they had planned their protests prior to this mishandling by the Punjab government.
  2. If the FIR is not being handled in a just manner, the legal recourse is to appeal to the court, which just made a decision favorable to Qadri's stance, and the government has x number of days to either accept or appeal the judgement. So the process seems to be working, and both sides have the ability to future appeals as well.
  3. If the process described above is not to the satisfaction of Qadri and company, the entity to protest against would be Punjab government. Though I won't agree with it, it will be somewhat justifiable for them to stage a dharna in front of Punjab assembly and ask for resignation of the CM on the basis of 'moral responsibility." But staging a mob in Islamabad and asking for the dissolution of all assemblies, National and provincial has no justification.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

@Phonexdesi

I think my initial post was kind of long, so while it served the purpose of letting me vent, it might deter most people from reading it and I might escape their wrath. In any case those I'd remind my PTI friends, and as I said earlier, we had hoped that PTI would change the politics and not just politicians. And name calling, and the very troubling Sultan Rahi mannerism is not what we had hoped for.

"Oye , mein tumhein choroon ga naheen..." --- I don't want a person with such mannerism to hold the highest office in the country. (true for Shahbaz Shareef too).

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

@psyah

Imran khan is not “simply saying wake up,” he’s exploiting the perpetually anti incumbent tendencies of Pakistani voters to create an opportunity for himself. The plan you presented to curb corruption sounds fine, we all have ideas. But the system calls for the elected party to get 5 years to have the ability to implement the ideas and THEN be judged by the voters. PPP got 5 years, and failed to control the power crisis, and were thrown out because of it.

Becoming impatient because psyah, or Sir Dig or S@1eem has ideas about how to do things better, and throwing out whoever is incharge will only make the situation worse. There are plenty of people with idea complex in Pakistan and we’ll keep making the situation worse if we don’t allow anyone to undertake any long term project.

By the way, the current power crises is a consequence of the political distractions we were fighting in the 90s. The 10 and 15 year plans being discussed at that time would have prevented the current crisis had we not kept changing governments.

As far as your comments about Model town incident are concerned, please see my response to s@1eem above.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

I am not Talat Husain. If i were, I'd have the courage to say in my live program what I say in writing in my articles and twitter feed.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

"opportunity for him self"

So when he gets this opportunity, what you think he going to do?
Why is he so keen ?

Cars ? factories ? women ? life in london ? Respect ?

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

Having the desire to do good is not a justification to say wrap up the system and "let me show you how i can fix things." Convince people with 'plans' (not slogans), demonstrate where you have finally been given the opportunity (KPK). Impress the obviously yearning people and they'll hand you ever bigger victories next time around.

Look up Messiah Complex on Google.

There are plenty of people who can claim to have 'honest intentions of improving the country'. There is only country though, so unless you have a better system in mind, convincing the voters and getting elected is the only way to decide who among all these saviors gets to try his scheme first.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

NS is Gorbachev of Pakistan. He will trippled Pakistan's deficit in 5 years the way things are going in the first 8 months.
Sometimes you have to put everything on stake, this is IK's decision that his time is now or never. You and I may differ from his method and timing.

This stability bullsT is suitable for IMF and WB, other than that the way rulers are looting and making fortunes is just a volcano in making.
The Argentinian inflation could be the result of all this borrowing and spendings without any real investment and exports.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

you did not say one word why he is keen for "opportunity for him self"

[quote]

There are plenty of people who can claim to have 'honest intentions of improving the country'

[/quote]

please have respect for your intellect, dont use such arguments.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

Agar Inqlab aa chuka hai to Umpire ki ungli ka kyon intezaar kia ja raha hai

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

like I said this is stage were PTI is trying to sustain inqalab.
Like if flood water sustain it ruins stuff. Like that.

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

Acha

( samajh nahin aaya)

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

come on!!!

Re: Why it is important to follow the constitution, despite its imperfections

You are very clever. Trying to tire me out by making me type the same thing multiple times until I eventually give up?

I did say “Messiah Complex.” (Link to Wikipedia). I’ll make an advance payment on the one word that will describe why his current attempt will fail.

**Hubris **(Link to Wikipedia).