LOL.. I was just thinking about it the other day. All other dictator and other such Pakistani politicians have been mysteriously finished off. Musharaf was really lucky or smart to step off with such grace.
check your facts. "all" other dictators and other such Pakistani politicians have not been mysteriously finished off.
ayub khan for one
yahya khan for another
and how can we forget the self declared "ameer ul momineen" nawaz shareef who is still around.
Shaitaan ki umer lambi hondee ai....
which is proven by looking at the leadership of JI and JUI.
Re: Why is musharraf alive?
^^ and on Sufi Muhammad too.. he is not dying soon,.. and this mean.. more trouble in future !
There is nothing wrong with wishing someone, who has taken over your country through wrongful means and used it for his own benefit, dead. (Machiavelli talks about it in Prince I believe. I can't provide the exact reference.)
Musharaf's crimes are obviously more than just taking over the country. What about the war atrocities in the North, sanctioning the killing of untried, innocent people (families/ civilians) and turning more into extremists?
The only problem is that the punishment would be after the fact but it would still be a lesson against his legacy.
As for prosecution, first let's safeguard our courts from these politicians.
Or turn the other cheek??
I am not advocating any vigilante stuff. Just bringing up a not-so-nice side of the argument.
hmm i am not fond of michavelli, the guy was radical and advocated almsot draconian rights of govt. However i am mistaken for wishing death for exalted musharraf. perhaps sarcasm is not a good place for such topics. i disliked him and opposed his reign wholeheartedly , however, i am thinking ,more about the fact that this guy provoked an almost crazed opposition with i think most assissination attempts directed at him.therefore i wonder now that he is in the same country and evidently safe and sound, does make me wonder about the authenticity of those attempts . also these unknown perpetrators were so fanatical that they offed baynazeer way before she even got hold of govt (bear in mind she has ruled us for fair bit of time) but they are fine with zardari so far? i mean surely zardari should be unacceptable to them as musharraf was? just curious what regular people think about this.
There is nothing wrong with wishing someone, **who has taken over your country through wrongful means and used it for his own benefit, **dead. (Machiavelli talks about it in Prince I believe. I can't provide the exact reference.)
Musharaf's crimes are obviously more than just taking over the country. What about the war atrocities in the North, sanctioning the killing of untried, innocent people (families/ civilians) and turning more into extremists?
The only problem is that the punishment would be after the fact but it would still be a lesson against his legacy.
As for prosecution, first let's safeguard our courts from these politicians.
Or turn the other cheek??
I am not advocating any vigilante stuff. Just bringing up a not-so-nice side of the argument.
Both sentences in bold are absolutely contradictory. How much more vigilante could someone be if that person wishes someone to be dead or killed without proper method of prosecution! That's pathetic, sinister and inhumane.
Proper prosecution and justice should be advocated, not merely death of anyone by a nutjob or hateful person. Its a crime and a crime should not be wished or advocated.
If there is no confidence on justice system then that need to be discussed and corrected.
Any so called 'public opinion' of someone being 'bad' should never be taken to extreme.
No need for any reference here by the way.
Its not a political thread, or not strictly any way. I wonder with so many attacks at his delicate self why is he now roaming free and happy? arent there nut jobs around hwo want to finish what they started? or more importantly why hasnt there been an attack on zardari zil e ilahi? surely if musharraf deserved one bullet this one deserves 10 :P
why ask such an easy death for him?
why dont u ask that he face the same agony the ones he gave to us Pakistanis.
why ask such an easy death for him? why dont u ask that he face the same agony the ones he gave to us Pakistanis.
What kind a ?
What kind a ?
you really dont know, or you just wana hear from me?
Both sentences in bold are absolutely contradictory. How much more vigilante could someone be if that person wishes someone to be dead or killed without proper method of prosecution! That's pathetic, sinister and inhumane.
Proper prosecution and justice should be advocated, not merely death of anyone by a nutjob or hateful person. Its a crime and a crime should not be wished or advocated.
If there is no confidence on justice system then that need to be discussed and corrected.
Any so called 'public opinion' of someone being 'bad' should never be taken to extreme.
No need for any reference here by the way.
If you had read my last sentence properly, you would have understood that I am not **advocating **any vigilante behaviour. As for wishing that someone was dead, there is no vigilantism or crime. It becomes a conspiracy when you actually give an indication of meeting such a wish and plan such a thing, etc.
It seems that your problem is not with wishing someone's death but wishing it through criminal means.
I just want to point out that legal does not necessarily equal just. That is why you have something called jury nullification (giving a non-guilty verdict on the basis of justice of the jury thinks that a crime has been committed but is not contrary to justice or the law under question is faulty.)
Moreover, judges' decisions are often influenced by public opinion through media, etc.
Are you saying that his sanctioning a war in which innocents have died and has resulted in new sects of Talibans is merely public opinion?
Vigilantism is a grey area sometimes dubbed as freedom fighting, sometimes as te***ism.
As for the courts, I am not talking about a trust in their honesty but in their being operative (they were not completely operative up until just now after Zardari reinstated the Punjab judicial system.)
As for Croquet's response, Machiavelli may have been too pragmatic or cut-throat but a lot of the modern Western politics is based on his ideas.
In all seriousness, looking back at Musharaf would be a waste of time. As for Zardari, he hasn't had enough time to seriously tick off the public in his term at least.
The biggest issue at hand is the perforation of Taliban into Pak.
hmm i am not fond of michavelli, the guy was radical and advocated almsot draconian rights of govt. However i am mistaken for wishing death for exalted musharraf. perhaps sarcasm is not a good place for such topics. i disliked him and opposed his reign wholeheartedly , however, i am thinking ,more about the fact that this guy provoked an almost crazed opposition with i think most assissination attempts directed at him.therefore i wonder now that he is in the same country and evidently safe and sound, does make me wonder about the authenticity of those attempts . also these unknown perpetrators were so fanatical that they offed baynazeer way before she even got hold of govt (bear in mind she has ruled us for fair bit of time) but they are fine with zardari so far? i mean surely zardari should be unacceptable to them as musharraf was? just curious what regular people think about this.
Hmm, it would better to start a movement for Zardari's impeachment if such a thing exists in Pak's constitution (since some of us are quite optimistic about legal procedure).
Hmm, it would better to start a movement for Zardari's impeachment if such a thing exists in Pak's constitution (since some of us are quite optimistic about legal procedure).
i agree western politics has been influenced by machivelli hugely, for me all the more reason to dislike the guy . that doesnot mean i disagree with every thing he said just the fact that he allows the leader a greater leaverage than i think any leader is going to resist exploiting. however thats more of a personal stance. as for the legal procedures in pakistan regarding past presidents ,that'd be a day, altough one can always hope.
i agree western politics has been influenced by machivelli hugely, for me all the more reason to dislike the guy . that doesnot mean i disagree with every thing he said just the fact that he allows the leader a greater leaverage than i think any leader is going to resist exploiting. however thats more of a personal stance. as for the legal procedures in pakistan regarding past presidents ,that'd be a day, altough one can always hope.
I completely agree with you and yet that is exactly what makes his permitting the finishing off an unfit leader is so striking.
A question was asked to him by a reporter last week on the Lal Mosque operation:
He laughed at it, and said all the orders/actions he passed/did it as a Chief of Army staff or President of Pakistan. These actions are carried out by the state on the orders of the head of state.
It’s like Khoda Pahaar..Nikla Choha..
Can you punish Bush Sr/Jr. for their actions, Guantanamo Bay, Torture..etc.. you can’t Madam, they are immune. That’s the way it works,…
now tell me your list 
ps. i reply because croquet was laughing 
^ uh uh u r talkin of a legal scenario (which can be taken apart i am sure given a fair chance, a tribunal can be set lets say by internation regimes). however zobia isnt making a legal claim rather an emotive one. i still laugh for her reply was quite excellent for the sort of question u asked.
^ uh uh u r talkin of a legal scenario (which can be taken apart i am sure given a fair chance, a tribunal can be set lets say by internation regimes). however zobia isnt making a legal claim rather an emotive one. i still laugh for her reply was quite excellent for the sort of question u asked.
You want a person dead, .. and the reason is difference of opinion on his actions. But Bhai jaan.. when you are sitting on the head of state seat. Things look different,..... people were crying for the lal mosque operation ..when he took the decision .. they were crying again.
People were crying for Bughti stuff.. when he take him down.. they cry again..
;)
You want a person dead, .. and the reason is difference of opinion on his actions. But Bhai jaan.. when you are sitting on the head of state seat. Things look different,..... people were crying for the lal mosque operation ..when he took the decision .. they were crying again.
People were crying for Bughti stuff.. when he take him down.. they cry again..
;)
i amnot going to get into waht he did or didnt do, already my thread is off the rails, i merely said he could be legally porsecuted, if not nationally, internationally, so i think it is a legally possible. once again i donot want him dead for what he did in lal masjid or any other case i doubt that would do any good to us. i wanted him out ceratinly . i just wonder where are the crazed killers he was chased by so often while in power.
i amnot going to get into waht he did or didnt do, already my thread is off the rails, i merely said he could be legally porsecuted, if not nationally, internationally, so i think it is a legally possible. once again i donot want him dead for what he did in lal masjid or any other case i doubt that would do any good to us. i wanted him out ceratinly . i just wonder where are the crazed killers he was chased by so often while in power.
it's your opinion naa.. k he should be prosecuted legally...
but i said.. no we should not,.. let the greatest leader Quaid-e-Azam.. a peaceful life ;)
Re: Why is musharraf alive?
^correction: i havent given an opinion on whether he should be prosecuted or not rather on whether he could be or not. where as you said he shouldnt along with he couldnt.
Re: Why is musharraf alive?
^^ he can be prosecuted but only government of Pakistan can file case not an individual !