This is simply stupid, how can a slight difference in praying our azan constitute someone being a non-muslim.
Good Muslims come in all kinds!
Sunni Shia Ismailli
PJ, i hope you are familiar with the term BIDDAT!!!
and thats all i gotz to say.
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
** Allah took the security of Kaba 100%!
BUT before and during the time of Prophet Mohammed there used to be Idols in kaba so does that make Idol worrship right?(astagfirrullah)
There used to be Nudity in kaba does that make it right?
Allah to protection of kaba not what goes on Inside!
**
[/quote]
shah jahan i guess u didn't know dat or i may be wrong but as far my knowledge(btw which is very less) goes Allah made this promise in Quran n tell when idols had been placed in Kaba after it was won by muslims n became the Kibala.
hmmmmmmmmmm ........... think think think
Fi Aman Allah
one who beleives in oneness of Allah n Prophet Muhammad Pbuh being the last prophet of Allah we cannot call them non muslim
the compilation of Quran was a innovation it really helped
then the introduction of zar n zabar Arbic ( i don't know wat to call them) was a innovation too to help non Arabic ppl read Quran
n then Azan itself was a innovation although it was durin Prophet Muhammad pbuh time.
u say Ameen when u say Duwa n if u look in Sura Fatiha its a Duwa
[quote]
Originally posted by nick:
**one who beleives in oneness of Allah n Prophet Muhammad Pbuh being the last prophet of Allah we cannot call them non muslim
the compilation of Quran was a innovation it really helped
then the introduction of zar n zabar Arbic ( i don't know wat to call them) was a innovation too to help non Arabic ppl read Quran
n then Azan itself was a innovation although it was durin Prophet Muhammad pbuh time.
u say Ameen when u say Duwa n if u look in Sura Fatiha its a Duwa **
[/quote]
:biggthumb
Also, the zer and zabar were introduced to help ensure the proper pronounciation. I don't think that the effort was not for the non-arabic speakers. The Islamic world at that time was confined to the arab-speaking world. ?
.....off course, shias has created lot of things by their own mind, evey they said Quran is not complete, the lamb of Hazrat Usman(radi al llah ho anh) had eated 10 juz(paras)...
so if anyone who doesnt believe in quran how do htey are muslim...
What!!!! how can you say that shia believe that "usman's lamb ate 10 sipara". I think you have never read your history. let me teach you some. sunni's one of the most authentic book called IBN e MAJA on page 141 it quotes Aysha as saying that "ayat rehm and razaet" was written on her sahifa, and that sahifa was under her bed, and then when Holly Prophet(pbuh)was dying she became busy with that and her lamb entered the house and ate it. Incidently the Ayat e rahm is not in Quran. another place in sahi bukhari page 743 Abdullah bin Abbas is making a reference to an ayat of Quran. But surprise!! last part of this Ayat is not in Quran..
also In sahi bukhari volume 2 page 746 and volume 2 page 667 it says that you "Buzurkan e Deen" ordered to burn copies of Quran.
Boy o Boy or is it Maxxim boy? I can quote more if you are intrested.
Wassalam.
[This message has been edited by pizza (edited November 18, 2000).]
I am sure you have heard many Hadees e Rasool(PBUH) regarding AhlulBait(family of prophet) such as Fatima(AS) is a part of my body and anybody who hurts her will hurt me and whoever hurts me will hurt Allah and whoever hurts Allah will go to hell (come on don't say you haven't heard this Hadees, I read it in grade 5 in karachi)...also there are many many more hadees with refrence to the AhlulBait which are recognised by both sects of Islam.
Please tell me about the fate of the person who tried to burn Bibi Fatima's(A.s) house while Imam Hasan(A.s) and Imam Husain(A.S) and Bibi Fatima (a.s)were inside the house or when that person broke the door of her house and as a result Martyred Bibi Fatima (A.S) and her unborn child.(You remember Rasool(PBUH) used to love his grandsons so much,don't you?). or tell me about the fate of the person who ordered to martyer Rasool's Grandson along with his family and friends in Karbala.
well!!! One of them became second Khalifah of Islam and the other person Became Sixth Khlifa of Islam. You must be very proud of these Khalifas.
Don't believe that Khalifas were involved in this?? no Problem. Atleast you can not deny the Importance of Ahlulbait( Because I can quote it from all your books and Quran.)
Then please join me in cursing all the enemies and murderers of AhlulBait.
Wassalam
Well i agree with most of the stuff you said pizza bhai, Muslimanoon ki history bohat dark hay.
Hazoor (pbuh) was not even burried and there was a fight over the matter of the khalifa to be?
sher-e-Khuda was being threatened by these so called musalmaans and khatoon-e-jannat’s house was being set on fire. Kya pursa deya hay muslmanoun nay bibi Fatima (as) ko onkay walid ki wafaat ka.
Allah ki lanat ho dushmanan-e-Muhammed o Aal-e-Muhammad
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[This message has been edited by Surdar Asif (edited November 18, 2000).]
Ameen ..see this is such a big part of our history but our sunni brothers dont want to talk bout this..i bet they dont know how Bibi Fatima died and how old she was when she died..who were the people who burnt her house..wake up..this is the difference between shia and sunni
Bismillah
All musalmans believe in Rasool's(PBUH)hadees that after Rasool's(PBUH) death the musalmans will divide into 73 sects, and out of 73 sects only one sect will go to heaven.
now lets look at the sects of Islam. wahabi, shafai, humbali, maliki, deobandi, hanafi...
oh! oh! I named 6 sects only in sunnism. so even if you say sunnism is the correct path of islam than my friend atleast 5 of your sects are definetly going to Hell.I wonder which 5, can you decide???
By the way Shiaism has no sect. Just Shia...
Hmmm....
Allah o Akbar.
wassalam
ok haven't got answer to my question yet i guess u guys cann't ans it can u
pizza there were four khalifa not sixth
If Prophet pbuh didn't trusted his companions then He pbuh would never had married His daughters to them
will n e one of u will marry his or her daughter to a person u don't trust.
If Hazrat rz accepted other khalifas n took bayeet on their hand n fought under their command how can u who don't even know themselves can say they were ...............
Its a known fact that we can never reach the level of Eman of the muslims in the early stage of islam
we take everything for granted but those muslims accepted Islam knowin that they will face repression Slaves accepted islam knowin dat they will have to face the consequences n we know wat happened i'm not gona go in details.
i have a question dat how many ppl really know wat happened exactly one yr ago none can u give me min by min detail. noo u cann't can u
its a fact that history has been change there is only book in the whole world which never had been change n never will thats Quran
why cann't we just respect all the khalifas n sahaba just for the fact they Prophet's pbuh companion
i have mentioned this Hadith earlier
Respecting your parent's friends is like respecting your ur parents
if n e one would like exact wordin i will be more then happy to provide it
in the light of this hadith i think we should respect all sahaba just for being companions of Prophet pbuh.
Bhai Nick, I wished you had asked me a more sensible question. But I have a very short answer to your question "If Prophet pbuh didn't trusted his companions then He pbuh would never had married His daughters to them". do you know Abu Sufyan was one of the biggest enemy of islam and Rasool(PBUH) had married his daughter also. does that make abusufyan a very trusted person??? may be for you.
now to answer sixth KHALIFA QUESTION, What term do you use for mawia or yazid. Now please don't say what you think, tell me what does the history says. These two persons are always refered as Khalifatul Muslameen, even abdullah ibn e umar(2nd Khalifa's son) did Bayat on yazid's hand. I once heard shah baleeg ud deen's speech on TV in karachi and he refered yazid as hazrat yazid (Astugfirallah.)
Wassalam
Islam forbades us from mournin on the death of some one n says that it hurts the dead.
so wat shias do surin muharram is rite or wrong?
wats the thinking behind havin the a horse which has nothin to do with Hazrat Hussain n touchin it thinkin one will be blessed i think Islam forbades us from doin this toooo
the structure of shia sect is laid on hatred against others (esp sahaba) disrespectin them
n as far as the incompletion of Quran is concern i think u forgot that durin the earlier period of Islam Quran was in the hearts of muslims not on paper so even if its true i think it could had been easily retrieve
** pizaa ** can u tell me where u got the hadees regardin the sects in islam. which book
can n e one else tell me the difference between the sects pizza mention above the so called sunni sects
coz i beleive in Allah is one Prophet pbuh is his last messenger.
Those who were close to Hazrat Muhammad pbuh r dear to me
Please tell me about the fate of the person who tried to burn Bibi Fatima's(A.s) house while Imam Hasan(A.s) and Imam Husain(A.S) and Bibi Fatima (a.s)were inside the house or when that person broke the door of her house and as a result Martyred Bibi Fatima (A.S) and her unborn child.(You remember Rasool(PBUH) used to love his grandsons so much,don't you?). or tell me about the fate of the person who ordered to martyer Rasool's Grandson along with his family and friends in Karbala.
can u give me some refrence some proof
ok if i say some one close to u tried to kill me u'll say noo coz i have no proof but then u don't have any proof for innocense either rite so where we end nowhere
n other ques how many of us here have read Quran with its meanin i haven't
so how can i call some one non muslim when i don't fit to be a true muslim
same for u guys toooooooo
so why don't we just stop here n start tryin to be a better muslims shia sunni which ever
posted by nick..... Islam forbades us from mournin on the death of some one n says that it hurts the dead.
so wat shias do surin muharram is rite or wrong?
Bhai Nick problem with you is that you haven,t read Quran and you are arguing about islam. anyway in quran it says that when Hazrat Yaqub heard about the death of his son Hazrat Yousuf he cried so much that he became blind. I guess what you are telling me is that Hazrat Yaqub did something unislamic (mazallah). crying is natural and good for the health when you are sad. you are objecting to it because it reveals bad deeds of Yazid and somehow you people don't want the world to know about this.
re your second question about the proof of umar burning the door of Bibi Fatima's(A.S) house. well if I give you the proof will you curse the offender??? no you won't. but I am going to give you proof anyway all from sunnis authentic books AL FAROOQ volume 1 and page 79, another book TAREEQ e TUBREE volume 3 page 198, quiratul ain vol2 page 88, izalatal khulfa (urdu translation)vol2 page 226. is that enough or you want more?
Wassalam
[This message has been edited by pizza (edited November 18, 2000).]
pizza bhai mashallah u know alot bout Islam..problem is that everyone here thinks they are right and they dont want to admit the faults in their history books..everyone knows after the death of our Prophet, there became so many sects..only one could be right..shia are the people who were with Imam Ali..so who was closer to Prophet them Imam Ali?
Anyone who says Kalima that: THere is only one god Allah and Mohammad is his messenger - Is a Muslim. I think, shias do say that, so saying that they are not muslims is really stupid idea and one should be careful when declaring something islamic and non-islam. Even though they have some extreme ideas and different rituals which may not be acceptable and may not be compatitible with Quran and Sunnah.
Anything which is NOT part of QURAN and SUNNAH and is NOT part of teachings of Islam is NOT ISLAM wether you find that in shias or in sunnis. If a sunni is doing someething which is not part of quran and sunnah, he is doing a great sin, and same goes for other sects in Islam.
Thank you, hope you understand.
Take it easy…
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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----
hi watcher..i like u to check out this site also www.najaf.org
ask any of ur question here…and u might really like the answer..takcare
here is an abstract from "The Lawful and prohibited in Islam" by Yusuf Al Qaradawi. its a really nice book telling about some of the basics laws of islam which affect our daily life.
*Mourning for the Dead *
Among the customs of jahiliysh which were denounced by Islam was the practice of wailing, lamenting, and showing excessive grief for the dead.
Islam's teaching concerning death is that it is not the annihilation of an individual, causing him to become non-existent, but that it is a journey from one world to another and that no amount of mourning will bring the dead back to life or change the decree of Allah Taa'la. The beleiver should receive death, as he receives any other calamity which may befall him, with patience and dignity, repeating the ayah, To Allah we belong and to Him do we return. (2:156)
The pre Islamic manner of mourning for the dead is strictly forbidden to the Muslim. The Prophet(pbuh) declared
"He who slaps his cheek, tears his
clothes, and cries out in the manner
of jahiliyah is not one of us." Al Bukhari
The muslim is not permitted to wear a mourning band, or change his usual attire to express his sorrow and grief.
The wearing of black as a sign
of mourning is prohibited is Islam(Trans)
Then the writer talks about wat a widow has to do.
n pizza as far as wat hazrat Yaqub did was before pre Islamic days. it might had been forbidden just as alcohol was forbidden only in Islam.
does it satisfy u. N ur other ques
u r rite i will not curse the Khalifa one reason cursing is not allowed in Islam so i guess u guys r disobeying another law of Islam
Hazrat Muhammad pbuh guaranteed ten muslims of Janat n Hazrat Abu Bakr, Omer, Usman and Ali (rz) were included in them . So how i can disrespect some one whom Prophet pbuh had given so much respect.
n i really don't dat Yazid was at fault. wat prove u have dat it was not due to a misunderstandin n the leader of the laskar might have done it.
u know who killed zia who killed Jfk noo no one doo how many theories we hav about them so how u can be sure that it Yazid . think
ok here is a million dollar ques again n no one had been able to reply to as yet
** why the way u (shia) say prayers n give adhan is different from the way its said n given in Khana Kaba of which protection Allah promised to do Himself.**
[quote]
Originally posted by pizza:
** posted by nick..... Islam forbades us from mournin on the death of some one n says that it hurts the dead.
so wat shias do surin muharram is rite or wrong?
Bhai Nick problem with you is that you haven,t read Quran and you are arguing about islam. anyway in quran it says that when Hazrat Yaqub heard about the death of his son Hazrat Yousuf he cried so much that he became blind. I guess what you are telling me is that Hazrat Yaqub did something unislamic (mazallah). crying is natural and good for the health when you are sad. you are objecting to it because it reveals bad deeds of Yazid and somehow you people don't want the world to know about this.
re your second question about the proof of umar burning the door of Bibi Fatima's(A.S) house. well if I give you the proof will you curse the offender??? no you won't. but I am going to give you proof anyway all from sunnis authentic books AL FAROOQ volume 1 and page 79, another book TAREEQ e TUBREE volume 3 page 198, quiratul ain vol2 page 88, izalatal khulfa (urdu translation)vol2 page 226. is that enough or you want more?
Wassalam
[This message has been edited by pizza (edited November 18, 2000).]**
[/quote]
Fi Aman Allah
Bhai Nick I like your persistance....
I knew you will give me some reference from YOUR OWN book about crying being forbidden in islam. well Bhai Nick I will keep MY tradition and give you reference from YOUR books. There is a book a very reliable book in your sect called musnad Ahmed Bin Humble on page 274 and vol 2 it says that aysha cried and beat her cheeks on Huzoors(PBUH) death. Are you still going to say that it was haram. If you are still not sure look in another one of your book called Fateh albari in vol 9 about Huzoors(PBUH) crying on a very dear relative's death. still not sure? Denounce those two books and I will give you more references Inshallah.
Now being Yazid(lanut-ullah) not responsible for Imam Husain's(A.S) death. I don't think I am going to waste too much of your time on this.Instead of proving that yazid(L.U)was responsible why not I invite you to CURSE MURDERERS and ANY ONE WHO CONSPIRED THE murder of IMAM HUSAIN AND HIS FAMILY. Bhai Nick if you did not curse Maloons In your next posting I will Assume that you BELIEVE that Yazid was the main culprit behind the whole Karbala and you don't want to admit it. If you truly believe that Yazid was not responsible then you should not have any problem cursing.
Now re your list of ten people who were guaranteed Jannat by Rasool(pbuh). so I assume that these people were on the right path. correct? And Somehow name of Imam Ali(A.S) is on that list too. please tell me about the Charecter of the person who fought two wars in the name of islam with Imam Ali(A.S), and killed 25000 of his supporters. will you join me again cursing those who fought Imam Ali(A.S) because Imam Ali(A.S) was on the right path.
I am not done yet just two more minutes Bhai Nick. I want two talk about two more names you mentioned in that list. but first in Sura Alhijrat god says "Momin are those who Believe in Allah and his Rasool(PBUH) and they did not doubt." now Bhai Nick look in your books Dur e munsoor vol6 page 77 and look Tufseer e Khazan vol 6 page 173 they both quote Umar on the day of Hudabia Truce Between Mushrik and Huzoor(PBUH) saying that I never doubted Hozoor(PBUH)except today. also look in your book Fateh Al Mulhim Sharah Sahi muslim vol 2 page 361 it says HUzoor(PBUH) hit umar's chest with his hand and said "Umar get rid of the Shaitan from your chest".
Now look in Dur e Manssor Vol 2 Page 54 which is again YOUR Mustanad Book. it says "Oh Abbu Bakar By God You have Shirk in your heart".
Now you be the judge Bhai Nick, compare shirk and doubt about Risalat with Allah's saying in Quran.Please tell me what do you think about anybody with any doubt in their heart about Risalat or shirk (doesn't matter how small)
Wassalam
Bhai Nick re your claim that cursing a zalim is forbidden in islam. I did not know that you have invented another Islam. Calling a zalim a ZALIM is a duty and right that islam has given to all musalmans. Please prove it that it is not true.
Wassalam