Why do they hate us?

Re: Why do they hate us?

Will everyone agree this kind of act has nothing to do with muslims whatsoever??

No where it is defined as the ‘reaction’ to muslim invaders to the land.

I request…Please stop blaming muslims!!!

This is onlyone site..if anyone searches…will not able to incriminate muslims.

BTW: Muslims invaded a large part of the world…

Sati is only in India/hindustan in its form as described in hinduism books.

December 1987 Uproar Over Rajput ‘Sati’

Wife Emolates Herself On Husband’s Funeral Pyre
A pretty, young bride of eight months, Roop Kanwar gained universal fame September 4th at Rajasthan’s Deorala Village in northwest India. She became a sati - burning herself to death on her husband’s funeral pyre. The reaction in India was an unresolved mixture of shock, admiration, outrage, reverence and embarrassment over the young girl’s action.

Local police failed to stop the sati. The Indian press called the act “a pagan sacrifice” and “a barbaric incident which blackened India’s image in the world.” Women’s groups demonstrated against the sati all across India, prompting belated government action against Roop’s relatives.

Yet private opinions, even of prominent politicians, were ambivalent.

Roop’s people, the martial Rajputs (who have inspired fear in every invader of India from the Muslims to the British), claim **sati as their custom and religious right-**the free choice of the widow.

Groups of Rajput women marched last month in favor of sati and burned copies of the anti-sati ordinance.

The situation remains a stand-off, the Rajputs proceeding with plans to build a temple on the site (they have collected over $230,000), despite a government ban and demanding that those arrested be freed.

Many newspaper reports say the widow was forced into the deed; in a word, murdered. According to all available first-hand reports, however, it was Roop Kanwar’s personal decision to commit this form of ritual suicide. “Roop did not weep [upon seeing her husband’s body], but she kept saying, ‘I will not let you go alone, I am also coming,’” recalled eyewitness and neighbor, Meenakshi Khandelwal. When Roop’s relatives tried to talk her out of it, she threatened them with sati shraap-a curse put upon those who would oppose a sati and thought to bring ruin to not only the person but his entire village.

The last sati of Deorala-69 years ago-in fact cursed and ruined a man who sought to dissuade her.

Contrary to many press reports, her intentions were not only known before the funeral, but several village elders and holy men came to test her resolve, according to their tradition. Convinced that she had received the power to become a sati from the Goddess, the elders and her in-laws gave their blessings.

Meenakshi Khandelwal said, “I saw Roop dressed in bridal make-up walking along with her husband’s body with a coconut in hand. There were about 900 people when the body was taken to the cremation ground. Later, the crowd swelled. It took about an hour for the preparation of the pyre. The girl stood like a rock chanting the Gayatri. Once the pyre was ready, she entered it and sat holding her husband’s head in her lap. She ordered Pushpendra Singh, her brother-in-law, to light the pyre. As the fire engulfed her, Roop sat serenely talking to her relatives, not showing any sign of pain.”

Many newspapers discounted this as incredible, saying she must have been heavily sedated or pushed in. But courageous willingness is, in fact, a common aspect of satis.

A 17th century traveler, Francois Bernier, witnessed a sati where he “could not perceive the slightest indication of pain or even uneasiness in the victim.”

One witness to Roop’s sati, Tej Singh, is quoted in Indian Today as saying, “She is from a well-educated family. Could this kind of woman have been forced? And there are hundreds of widows here whose husbands died even before there were pension schemes. Why were they not forced?** She was a woman who believed her husband was a god and there could be no life for her without him.”**

Grief at the death of a loved one is one of the most common reasons for suicide in all societies. In America the suicide rate is very high, 1 in 2,000 for persons age 15 to 34 whose spouses die. Rejecting the concept that suicide is a sin, most westerners have accepted the idea, according to scholars, that man has a right to take his own life. In the last twenty years, nearly all countries have removed suicide from the law books; aiding a suicide remains a crime.

“Ritual suicide” is done in matters of injustice, honor and love. It is tied to belief in reincarnation and viewed as a sacrifice of the body, not a mortal sin against the soul. East or West, ritual suicide is regarded with respect and reverence. Will anyone forget the Buddhist priests who, in protest of the Vietnam war, burnt themselves to death in the Saigon town square? The Japanese samuri commits hari kari when his honor is lost.

Western reaction to sati-outside of missionary reports-has often been one of awe. The early Portugese traveler Pietro della Valle said, “If I knew [of a lady about to become a Sati], I will not fail to go and see her and honor by my presence her funeral with that compassionate affection, which such a great conjugal fidelity and love seem to deserve.”

From its first instances in India, sati has been a practice of the warrior class, or kshatriyas. Later, other castes picked it up. Similar practices are found in the history of other peoples, e.g., American Indian, African, Chinese, Egyptian and Greek.

The first historical mention of sati in India is in the Mahabharata, composed around 300 B.C.

There the wives of Lord Krishna-Rukumini, Gandhari, Sahya, Haimavati and Jambavati-ascended the funeral pyre upon his death.

Sati is not mentioned in Hindu scriptures until the 1st century A.D. when the minor scripture Vishnusmriti commends it. This scripture claims a sati will be freed from rebirth as a women. Other commentators reject this logic.

The hard life of a widow contributed to the occurrence of sati among those who did not feel they could live the required life of renunciation.

Sati was formally outlawed in India in 1829 as a result of numerous reports of coercion on the part of relatives who sought to steal the widow’s inheritance or avoid supporting her.

Without question, it is the duty of the police to make every effort to stop a sati from occurring. Yet it is doubtful whether such a determined person as Roop Kanwar could be thwarted. It may be impossible to dissuade fighting people such as the Rajputs from their ideals of self-sacrifice-either of their men in battle or their women in the love of their husbands. Western societies are embroiled in the ethical issues of terminal patients seeking “a conscious, dignified death.”** The customs of sati raise equally perplexing problems.**

Article copyright Himalayan Academy.

Re: Why do they hate us?

Well, yupe SOME ppl in India DO HATE/LOATHE Pakistan/is.
but MOST either feel INDIFFERENT or do actually feel NICE/POSITIVELY CURIOUS about their neighbour.

do not get flared up, but itz not just Indians, the terrorist have blacken the name of Muslims, especially Pakistanis, all over the world. for a long time, it has always been them blasting up places, and so, these has formed this mindset in people that every blast is because of the 'Muslim terrorists'(me personally think they have no faith).
and itz not only non-Muslims, even some Muslims always assume that all the blasts are by the Jehadis.

and being thankful to the 'ppl who brought light to this piece of dark land' ?? you serious!
gosh, India was always do kadam agey even before the Delhi Sultanate. they computer you are typing on, the stuffs you buy, all the machines and building..all these are possible cause ancient Indians invented zero while the rest of the people were still making cave paintings.

sure the Mughal did gifted Urdu to Indians(including your forefathers), build great structures, but all the structures were their personal expenditure. what else did they gift?

what about all the mujra and tawaif culture?? i think Heera Mandi is still a good example? most of the Nawabs and Mughal kings were ek number key aiyash. they kept harems, drank liquor, were fond of mujra and tawaif's gaana baana, played gamble, married kuffars...itnt all this Haram in Islam, and still they are Muslims?
and what about all those hundreds of taxes over non-Muslims? what anbout all those Hindu, Sikh, Jain and Buddhist temples,stupas, universities, places of worship and importance that they break for building more mahals and kothas?? yes, they did bring so much for the original jahil log.

and how do you think we should show our thankfulness to the late-Mughals? have Babar Day??? Akbar Jayanti?
dude, in India, the Mughals are more in popular culture than even the Rajputs, Ashoka, Chandragupta etc.

Welcome bro, surely Muslims DO NOT endrose multiple men marrying the same woman.
Muslims endorse multiple women marrying one man naa? cool, great!

i did tell you that sati prata started during the bad bad middle periods. Mughals didnt start it.
and guess what, then too, it was not practised by all the Hindus. thats a fact.
and itz a fact too that most women whose kingdoms were captured by Muslim invaders killed them self, quite like the sati style, minus any husbands, to protect their izzat.
heard about the hit French musical, Padmavati, directed by Sanjay Leela Bhansali for a big theater in Paris?? and that wasnt even written by an Indian. thats just one example,yaar.

and you especially quoted about some sati pratha done by a Rajputni cause i mentioned them? GOSH, you actually read hardliner Fundo Hindu websites! Fundo Hindus, like their Muslim Fundo brothers and sisters, suck BIG time. but you do think 99.99% of Hindus are like that naa?

yupe, you do get rare, read rare, cases of sati pratha, but thay only happen in the most remote part of the most backward portion of the country where the people perhaps dont even know that India has become independent 60 years ago. even then, the rate is very low.
compared to the honour killings still on in Pakistan. whats your say about it?

and your accusation that Indians dont go to Pakistani stores, then why should they?? is going to Pakistani stores mean the pople love you? you compare the no. of Indian footfalls in Pakistani stores with whether or not Indians hate Pakistanis?!
well, Indians have Indian owned stores, where they find all their stuffs, so they dont have to travel to Pakistani stores! simple!

now you do not have any idea how popular Pakistani singers and Bands are in India.
they throng to concerts of Pakistani musicians.
every Pakistani song relased there, well except Najam Shiraz i guess, becomes a hit.

well, you did some statics regarding whether Indians employ Pakistanis or vice-versa?

and whats a "made up culture" anyways? isnt Northern Indian and Pakistani culture almost the same?

well, Indian Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists dont eat beef, and beef is one of the most popular meants among Pakistani, so thats one reason why Indians dont visit Pakistani returants.
and if Indians have Indian restaurants, where they serve the same desi food in Pakistani restaurants, then why chose a Pakistani restaurants over an Indian one.
and as much as i know from my NRI friends, Indians do visit Pakistani restaurants.

and why should Indians have any idea about Lollywood? i mean, now almost everyone in India have at least heard, if not saw, which i did, Khuda Key Liye, and those who saw it, me included, appraised it a lot. but here it ends. people in the older times used to see classic Pakistani movies, when they are watchable. now they are just copies of Bollywood films, which are in turn copies of HOllywood. they are of the Bhojpuri film category, and when films streep down to Bhojpuri film category, only the pan walleh bhaiya see them. and Pakistani movies are not available in India too.

hey, even i had personal, online, 'experiences' too.
so as i said, there are ghatiya lafengey log in both side of the great border.
ad if any Muslim/Pakistani Bhai/Bhen got angy over what ever little i wrote about Muslims(read only the invaders, aiyash kings and fundu terrorists), then me sorry.

Re: Why do they hate us?

Oh, i forgot to comment on the article.
i dont have time, so lets keep it short.

first, all over India, there was outrage, anger blah blah balh.
second, Mahabharata was full of widows, no one committed sati.
and Ghandhari was not Krishna's wife. she was from Ghandara, now Afghanistan, and wa the mother of Kauravs, and it was her curse that killed Krishna.
so, i am not sure about the creditabilty of the wifes comitting sati.

and, as itz written, Vishnusmritti,never heard of it, was a minor script, and itz ideas were rejected.
the main scripts of Hindus are the Vedas. and it doesnt not have sati in it.

Re: Why do they hate us?

^In case you missed my first few sentences I must remind you that...

Whatever you say about who was who's wife or not....my point is that sati has nothing to do with muslims as some of you asserted...all along...and still blame us whenever its discussion comes up.

This act has been and still is being committed.

Until you get this point clear and stop thinking that the act was done because of muslims............I will continue to think you just want to blame muslims.

Few episides of sad and horrible acts of honor killing did happen in Pakistan....but no one blames any other religion or people from other religion for it in Pakistan.

Don't you think the history in India/Bharat is distorted to look muslims and their role in India appear bad?

Your earlier post has too many mis-informed comments about mughals or people before mughals and with time later I will try to answer that post.

I question your comment about zero number as well. Much is written all over to DISPUTE muslims inventing zero (arabic Sifar) but even west agrees that it was invented by arabs.
Romans used to write english letters as numericals and it was very difficult to write large numbers.

Watch 'Islam in Europe' ....I know the discussion will go beyond the thread title if we continue along this line but your post clearly shows why you meaning people in India might hate muslims/Pakistani.

You SELECTIVELY attributed bad things to earlier rulers is another proof.

All I can say for now that very few bad guys from middle eastern areas doing the evil acts in many parts of world should not be made an excuse to blame Pakistani for anything goes wrong in India or wipe off the good things I already mentioned.

**Hello Deedawar,The muslim kings had a great impact in India but mostly of a negative kind. They managed to run what was one of the most advanced and rich civilizations into a third world country. The muslim citizenry I don't know but there were only a handful of muslim 'greats' that contributed in the fields of poetry, music etc.

I don't know where you get the idea that muslims had anything to do with this - as quoted below, arabs were responsible for taking the concept of zero to the Europeans from India, that's all.

Regards
Pundit Vikram
The nr. zero was invented independently in India and
by the Maya. In India a decimal system was used, like
ours, but they used an empty space for zero up to 3rd
Century BC. This was confusing for an empty space was
also used to separate numbers, and so they invented
the dot for a zero. The first evidence for the use of
the symbol that we now know as zero stems from the 7th
century AD. The Maya invented the number zero for
their calendars in the 3rd century AD.
The number zero reached European civilisation through
the Arabs after 800 AD. The Greek and Roman did not
need the number zero for they did their calculations
on an abacus. The name 'zero' comes from the arabic
'sifr'.
(Data from the book "the calender" by D. E. Duncan).

Dr. Wassenaar

is this a bloody joke
:hayaa:

Re: Why do they hate us?

Hello Lafanter,

rather, the muslim rule was a bloody tragedy and a joke.

Regards
Pundit Vikram

Re: Why do they hate us?

Did I say muslims rulers caused sati pratha?
I said when foreign Muslim invaders used to invade Indian kingdoms, the women folks used to collectively jump into the fire to protect themselves from ‘dis-honor’.
This fact cannot be questioned.

Yes, you go about in Indian remote villages to see if the practice is still being done or not.

And I never said the act’s done because of Muslims.

FEW episodes of honor killing in Pakistan?! Dude, you know nothing of whats goin’ on in your country!
And nor do anyone blame sati pratha on any other religion.

No, I don’t think so. Have you read any of the school history books?
The only Muslims to be ever shown in bad light are Ghori, Mir Zaffar, Mir Quasim, Ghazni, Auranzeb and Nadir Shah. And they did works that would give them bad name.

Yes, I would love you to ‘clear my misconceptions’ about the pre/Mughal rulers.

And everyone knows that ancient Indians discovered zero.
Even the modern numerical system have evolved from the ancient Indian numericals.
The Arabs, being the most efficient traders of the times, carried the Indian numericals and zero to the west, and so the numerical came to be known as the ‘Hindu Arab Numerical System’.
The Indian numericals and positional number system was introduced to the Muslim world by the mathematician, Al-Khwarizmi.
Aryabhatta was the first one to use zero, the modern numerical system and the negative integers.
And your IQ level is quite low.
Romans didn’t use ‘English letters’ to write numbers.
They used the Roman script, which was adopted by the English.

I selectively mentioned the negatives of the rulers to balance the reputation of them that you have in your mind. You really think that all the muslim rulers were some beacon of light to wipe out all the evils of the Indians? And my selectively chosing the negatives have nothing to do with my feelings for Muslims.

Not to anger you, but does Pakistan too comes under middle-east, cause there are MANY terrorist training camps there. But you didn’t know, right?
And no bhai, there are not ‘few’ in anyway. And the magnitude of destruction they cause is too high.
But if you want to live in you dream world, then aapko mubaraq, I am outta this place. You may post as much ill you want to about India.
[FONT=&quot]We still would be the second fastest growing economy in the world.

and Vikram, stop it yaar.

Problem is pallav, that some (most)Pakistanis believe that India is one homogeneous country with a brutal Hindu majority trying to eliminate everything Muslim.

Re: Why do they hate us?

Hello!

I will be frank and tell you why I think those Indians that hate Pakistanis do so:

1) Pakistanis used keep attacking us in Kashmir and killing innocent people including women and children

2) Pakistani army tried take territory away from us in Kargil etc

3) Whenever we accost Pakistan about this kind of misbehavior they pull th emuslim card and cry that India is mistreating muslims!

4) Pakistan government agencies like ISI run terror camps and send terrorists into India - these ba&***!ds have caused attacks in many cities in India in past few years.

5) When Pakistan govt asks for evidence and we give them evidence immediately they step back and lie that the terrorist kingpin is not there! Yet the ba%#$@@@d attends grand weddings with famous people

Regards
Pundit Vikram

Re: Why do they hate us?

Thank you for the colorful language Pundit.

RAW is no less dangerous to Pakistan as ISI maybe to India. Lets not forget one side of the dark world and overemphasize the other.

I know some (not all) Indians love to jump the bandwagon and boast about the economical success of India, which is undoubtably a good sign for the entire region because a stable and prosperous neighbor is in Pakistan's interest as well. But, at the same time we have to remember that India still faces the same demons as any other developing nation. There are still hungry and poor who go to sleep without any shelter or eating. There are several if not many human rights violations that take place, some under the veil of political system, some outside of it (unknown till exposed). Gujrat incident is still a fresh atrocity.

Pakistan and India both are glass houses as far as the world is concerned. One is burning hotter than the other right now (Extremism in Pakistan at the moment), but lets not throw stones at each other because we're both going to expose ourselves. Neither of us are perfect.

What the two nations CAN and SHOULD do is to cooperate and learn/teach each other the trades of counter-terrorism. Help each other grow economically, and work on differences that are present with a clear and open heart.

is that the best u can do
full of lies

Make your mind up.

The above is your personal opinion.

In regards to attacks within India, Even if the ISI are responsible, although I have not seen any concrete evidence, just finger pointing. What they (ISI) supposedly do, do not represent me or any Pakistani I've ever met, besides A stable and prosperous India is in Pakistans interest.

Prove me otherwise slimo mo. I would be happy if you do so. Explain to me why Pakistan was created if not for this general feeling among Pakistanis.

[quote="sTaLkEr"]

And talking about forced conversions, who forcefully converted the ENTIRE INDIAN POPULATION from Buddhism to Hinduism? Buddhism which Asoka had instroduced and spread peacefully in his reign? Muslims again?
quote]

Hold on mate. Ashoka was born as a Vedic Kshatriya and then adopted buddha teachings after Kalinga war where his army massacred a million or so. Secondly during those time Hinduism and Buddhism wasnt known, it was only Vedicism and Buddha teachings which then were the forms of Vedic philosophy. After ashoka adopted buddha teachings he spread those teachings to his empire and I blive the buddhism in SE Asia was a result of his effort along with the latest Taliban demolished Buddha statues of Afghanistan.

The funny thing about this thread is that the title should be changed to:

"Why do we hate each other."

Looks like the feelings are mutual brothers and sisters! Itni sharam ki baat hai. Small countries with hardly any resources have moved on, but we Indians and Pakistanis will die trying to figure out who is better.

:BiB:

indians are very confused ppl..ajeeb baat hai we even donated our countries original name indus and still they desire us to see them as 1 of us when we never wre 1 to begin with...why cant they just leave us alone...why is it soo hard ...i know tum indians ko jalan hoti hai pakistan ko dekh kar mager is main hummari kiya ghalti hai ...choro baba pakistan ki pheet hummaishaan 'india' ki taraf thi aur nazar west ki taraf...ur insignificant :p ...

Re: Why do they hate us?

btw did i said indian galz are polite aka hass mukhri unlike indian male spicie :chai:

hussain baba aapne sahi farmaya..hum log ekdam jalte hain aapse. kahan bangalore sala ghatiya jagah aur kahan rawalpindi.App west ko hi dekho aur unhe ke jhande jalao..

:biggthumb