Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

another one bites the dust....and u obviously have not read any of the previous 8 pages b4 typing away, did u.......
anyway, I will tell a story for u.....since u like to talk w/o any evidence and clearly r not much aware of the history either.........so it is appropriate one for u....

there was a hindu in Hindustan........and as u know that in India all the faiths... hindus, Muslims, Christians, u name it all live together........anyway, so a Muslim uncle with a mindset similar to urs knocks a door of a hindu........and the following conversation takes place.......

Uncle: hi...how r u.....I was actually knocking the door of ur neighbor and he is not answering......any idea where he is?

Hindu: oh himm.....he is gone somewhere.......

Uncle: do u know where he gone?

Hindu: it is Mohammra....he was saying tht he was to go to a majlis of Hussain sahab (thats what Hindus call Imam Hussain).......

Uncle: puts his wahabi cap on and mumbles with a smirk......they killed him and now they mourn him........
Hindu: who killed who?

Uncle: puts fwd exactly what u r saying above they killed the grandson of "our" Prophet and now they cry about him as to prove their innocence........

Hindu: hmmmm...and you dont cry for the grandson of "your" Prophet like them?

Uncle: No, of course we don't!

Hindu: hmm...what a status of Hussain sahab that the people who killed him mourn him and remember his sufferings with all this aqeedat after so many years.........but actually I am more surprised at you that u call him son of "your" Prophet yet you do not cry over him??

Uncle: sees the fallacy of his argument that a hindu could see runs away as u guys normally do............

and the hindu guy lives on tell the tale.........

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

They will call Shia's Qatilaan-e-Hussain but wont send lanat on Qatiliaan-e-Hussain....Becoz they know lanat comes back to their own door when they say... May ALLAH curse enemies of Ahleybait a.s.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^ well actually they actually have no problem narrating hadiths from the killers of Imam Hussain........and their lanat and woes r reserved for the likes of Mukhtar al saqafi who rose up to kill each and every killer of Imam Hussain.........their sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah leaves no words in condemnation of Mukhtar for killing the likes of Ibn Ziyad, Shimr ibn Zil joshan........notice the logic here.....if u will kill the grandson of the Prophet, the master of the youth of paradise then the fatwa for u will be that Allah is forgiving and merciful and he may forgive the mistake and so on (and this joke was repeated by the royal mufti of Saudi arabia on tele a few years back).......on the other hand if u happen to kill the killer of Hussain then u r straight to hell and Allah is not forgiving and merciful anymore!

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Ameen.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Ilahi Ameen
Lets see rest of muslim bros and sis join us in our prayer :)

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Below the trasnlation from Site u provided… i am not even sure if its a sunni or shia source !

Verily, those who took the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman have sworn allegiance to me. Now those who were present at the election have no right to go back against their oaths of allegiance and those who were not present on the occasion have no right to oppose me. And so far as Shura (limited franchise or selection) was concerned it was supposed to be limited to Muhajirs and Ansars and it was also supposed that whomsoever they selected, became caliph as per approval and pleasure of Allah. If somebody goes against such decision, then he should be persuaded to adopt the course followed by others, and if he refuses to fall in line with others, then war is the only course left open to be adopted against him and as he has refused to follow the course followed by the Muslims, Allah will let him wander in the wilderness of his ignorance and schism.
O Mu’awiya! I am sure that if you give up self-agg*****zement and self-interest, if you forsake the idea of being alive only to personal profits and pleasures, if you cease to be actuated solely by selfishness and if you ponder over the incident leading to the murder of Uthman, you will realize that I cannot at all be held responsible for the affair and I am the least concerned with the episode. But it is a different thing that you create all these false rumours and carry on this heinous propaganda to gain your ulterior motives. Well you may do whatever you like.*

I found this as the major difference in trasnlation ? is there any more i am missing ?
Also can u put a sunni source for the translation you quoted ?

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

one of my friends asked me to do it for him once. I flat out refused

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

You did right because doing/ accepting things without knowing philosophy behind it doesn't make any good, but why your friend wanted to do that for him?

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

this is a lie, the most the liars(shiites) could say is x scholar said x person was ‘thiqah’ but when we read actual page the scholar says something totally different

typical shiite tactics


the first caption of this video may be of interest to muqawee who is learning history (tahrikh, not to be confused with deen, islam)

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^shardmany, I don't read ur posts to tell u the truth and reserve reading them for the purpose of humor only..........but this time it is compelling to notice it since it is link to a video most likely presented by somebody else........but I will not answer it unless u make some sort of point of using ur own mind....... referencing a video is ok and I have no problem with it as long as it is related to ur ideas........but just posting videos won't get us anywhere b/c I can just as well post 10 videos in reply........and then what wud u do with the narrations narrated by Shimar Laeen in your books?........and btw u continued ur traditional comics when u tried to "advice" Muwawee..........lets just say tht it is not the most advisable position for u.........and that is my brotherly, rafidi advice to u :)

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Typical Nasibi stubbornness!! You are advised not to touch (at least) this topic since all the fairy tales told to you by your Nasibi mullash gonna fall flat and nothing will remain in the end with you but embarrassment. The easy approach of your pioneer Imams in accepting the killers of Imam Hussain while raising suspicions over the verasity of Ahlulbayt (as) not gonna leave you anywhere, sopleaee lay off.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Thank you Shardmanny for providing the video links. I knew about disloyalty of Kufis and which is also accepted by our Shia brothers. The new point I picked from these videos that three major persons(i.e. Ibn e Ziyad, Shamar & Sinnan) who were responsible for Shahadat of Hazrat Hussain were from Shian Ali and fought from Hazrat Ali’s side in battle of Siffin, but its also not something that could take me with surprise, because we all knew the circumstances in which Hazrat Ali (RA) was appointed as Khalifa and involvement of Kharjis in state affairs. But my question from you is how will you prove that the Azadaari was not started by Ahl e Bait (RA), but used as propaganda by Yazeed /kufis, etc, because if this is the fact then why our Shia brothers curse these for their acts.

Nussairee, what is the history of that Shamar Laeen, Ibn e Ziad & Sinan?

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^since Quran commands adherence to the Ulul Amr and Prophet SAWW too had emphasized greatly on adhering to the Imam and in addition Arab custom from the old age led to a belief that the khalifa was the successor of the Prophet SAWW whom must be obeyed under any circumstances no matter what he does or commands to do...........thus many ppl who fought under Imam Ali against Muawiya fought under him because he was a khalifa of the time......not everybody who fought under Imam Ali's leadership was his Shia.... as 'SHIA OF ALI' is a very distinct group within the passage of history with distinct ideas from the rest (one that believes that all forms of authority, political and spiritual, belongs to the family of the Prophet).........during the time of Imam Ali/Hasan/Hussain u will c in history theree groups being mentioned namely 1.Shia of Ali, 2. Shia of Muwayvia, 3. Shia of Uthman.............

Shimr fought in battles not because he considered Imam Ali a divine chosen successor of the Prophet.... but rather b/c Imam Ali was the caliph of the time and Kufa being the capital and army center was ordered by Imam Ali to join fight against Muawiya.......only a blind nasibi who shardmanny is taking his disinformation from wud say such an ignorant thing.........anyway, I have read that Shimr was religious to an extent tht he prayed but he was completely devoid of any form of light and guidance......he seemed to consider the word of the man in power the last word and either he had little to no understanding of the commands of God or he chose to ignore them..........he was the one who cut the head of Imam Hussain off his body.....may he get a deserving punishment......

Ibn Ziyad.......son of Ziyad ibn Abih.......literally meaning "Ziyad son of his mother" because his father was unknown........one of the hideous crimes of Muawiya was that for political gains he declared Ziyad ibn Abih to be his brother and declared Abu Sufyan as his father!!!!..........this act made mockery of the Shariah and is criticized by almost all the Sunni and obviously Shia scholars in their books...........So Ziyad Ibn Abih becomes Ziyad ibn Abu Sufyan overnight.........Ibn Ziyad was son of this character..........Ibn Ziyad himself was a very cruel man who took the word 'deceit' and 'torture' to a new level........

Sinan ibn Anas was the man who went ahead, after many had refused, and pierced a spear in the chest of Imam Hussain.......may he get a deserving chastisement........

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

[mod]Stick to the topic of the thread rather than insulting/pointing on each others[/mod]

Thread un-locked.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

The point I have made in red goes to the root of the case. This is the point via which the present day Nawasib and anti-Shia fanatics teach their adheretns that it was Shias themseves who killed Imam Hussain and by saying that they intend to relate those Shias with the presetn day Shias who are 'Shia Athna Ashari'. But in this whole deceitful act, these cunning people forget or they do not intentionally tell their adherents is the fact that:

  1. Mere participating in battle of Sifeen along side Ali bin abi Talib (as) ddid not make one the Shia (Athna Ashari or Imami Shia) because great Sahaba such as Ammar Yasir (ra) also faught along side Ali (as), are these anti-Shia people trying to suggest that the great Sahaba such as Ammar Yasir (ra) were 'Shia Atha Ashari'? Of course these Sahaba worshippers (who at the same time bear hatred for Shias) would never agree to that.

  2. All those people who participated in the battle of Sifeen were given the title of "Shia" irrespective of their individual faith i.e. Some of them believed in the caliphate of Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman and were participating alongside Ali (as) regarding him as their foruth caliph. Still they were called "Shia" in that battle. (this segment later on evolved as Sunnis). While there were some who beleived in the caliphate of Abu Bakar and Umar but deemed Ali superior to Uthman. Still they were caled "Shia" in that battle.

So how on earth can these hatred mongers pick an individual from the battle of Sifeen and acuse the present day Shias (who are Shia Athna Ashari or Imami Shia) for an involvement with those individuals!!!!

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

may peace be with you

brother, the first thing i’d like to say is that this is a terrible accusation, to the extent that it would be less of a sin to kill ahlebait then to say they introduced these pagan rituals. it is important to use the word pagan or jahiliya because the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam forbade the practice

Umar Radiallahu anhu beheaded a man who sought another opinion after the Prophet SAW had already decided a matter

please note some important points

1.the Prophet said, “He who slaps his cheeks, tears his clothes and follows the ways and traditions of the Days of Ignorance is not one of us.”

Prophet (saw) said:
“If one of you is afflicted with a calamity, then let him remember his calamity by me (i.e., by my death); for indeed, it is the greatest of calamities.”

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said:“O people, let any person – or any believer – who has been afflicted with a calamity remember his calamity by me and hence find solace in his calamity by any other person [or occurrence], for no one from my Nation will be afflicted by a calamity after me that is more severe upon him than my calamity.”

shia source - confirmation from imam about Prophet SAW forbidding-(najhul blag)
If you had not ordered endurance and prevented us from bewailing, we would have produced a store of tears and even then the pain would not have subsided, and this grief would not have ended, and they would have been too little of our grief for you. But this (death) is a matter that cannot be reversed nor is it possible to repulse it. May my father and my mother die for you; do remember us with Allah and take care of us.”

there is no need in our creation to wail except for some to advertise jahiliya and offer the people the chance of belonging to the fire, to clearly act against the teachings of islam. this is one of the reasons many including myself believe shiaism is the religion supported by the devil. you have already seen atleast several contradictions in shiaism from najhul blag above (matamdari,knowledge of unseen of imams,and teachings of imams) it should be noted here that if shias have some allegation(lie) on later imams they follow these due to many problems they face in extracting the religion they want from earlier imams.

these rituals and other shia beliefs were already part of the religion of the people who went on to become the shia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=475nVO0ql3w

this video explains some of the shia beliefs and pratices, away from sunnis they barely try to hide the origins of their ways. there is fatwas in there regarding matamdari issues firewalking, firejumping for imam Husayn Radiallahu anhu!

however, coming back to your original question regarding ahulbayt there is no serious allegation on them by the shia
some say zainab ra hit her head (by accident or not) and it bled so that justifies bloodletting
others say medinite imams (very secretively) told pious shias of kufa (after going all day teaching sunnis) to do these things. they themselves couldnt due to fear.

will continue with this later

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

oh well.......

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

thanks for showing your true colours, its good to lose the mask

i dont see why you mind me highlighting the sunni view with regards to your religion.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^don't flatter urself.....no sensible Sunni wud want to have ur association with their faith.........

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Nussariee _ please provide the proof of your accusation about one of the khulfa having a majoo Boyfriend