and is there any references anywhere quranic/hadith for one to do so, or from where is this tradition derived. Are there any shias who dont do this, and have reasons not to.
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
I think even the shias bro cannot answer this one
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
I have known many who are ehl e tasheeh but dont do matam and all that. To my knowledge, there are many groups in the Ahl e Tasheeh sect, with different practices and beliefs.
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
do a quick search and you will find plenty of threads on this question.
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
Some of them believe that the more love they show for Ahle Bait the closer they will be to salvation. Matam at the martyrdom of Hazrat Imam Husian is out of their love for Ahle Bait.
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
as mirch said
the way the shia work in terms of daleel is different to how sunnis derive.
sunnis use QuranPAK and the SAYINGS of Prophet Sallaallahu alaihi wasallam however in shia the person to be followed is imam, imam is everything, imam represents Allah and the the Prophet. the Quran they say can only be interpreted by imam but they have hadiths which come out of kufa iraq, which claim to be from imams. the massive difference in practice comes from the fact that most of these ‘hadiths’ are known fabrications so modern ijtehad is required to discern a correct path. this is done by a marja, the followers are encouraged to taqleed(exact following, without question) to a marja. marjas are standins for the 12th imam, who is ghaib.
the freedom given to marjas allows the marja to give simple answers. example here of sistani
*Question: *
*What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him? *
*Answer: *
*If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.
*
another marja, shirazi:
*Question: *
*Some individuals say that I do not see shedding my tears as enough to express my grief for Imam Hussain (AS), his household and his followers on the day of Ashura. So is hitting myself with sword and injuring myself is allowed? *
*Answer: *
*The Hussaini Sha’a’er, including TATBIR, are some of the RAAJIH issues. TATBIR is a MUSTAHAB deed, unless it leads to death, loss of limb, or loss of faculties. (RAAJIH means MUSTAHAB that could become WAJIB depending on the circumstances - translator.).
*wajib means compulsory
as we can see whatever the reasoning is, atleast some marjas deem it very neccessary.
however, it gets a little more complicated still. the ‘pious shias’ dont actually believe imam was killed, they say he will come back. theres atleast some narrations which say he will be ‘killed’ again.
as to why they do beating, 1. because imam was killed, (these imams are higher then prophets according to shia) 2. to show their shia-ness (SHIA of imam) 3. the events are told in exagerated form to shias (this type of deception is allowed to increase love for imams) 4. a cultural practice carried over from pre-shia times (see below)
on page 144 of Zoroastrianism: An Introduction ](Zoroastrianism: An Introduction - Jenny Rose - Google Books)
Zoroastrianism: An Introduction - Jenny Rose - Google Books
it clearly describes the practice of shias
inclusive of blood letting, killing of horses, laceration of faces, and weep (crying)
annual event for seven days in the seventh month
the most scary line is ''the chief divinity in the panjikant mourning scene is usually identified as the multi-armed Nana."
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
^rather than commenting on a topic u r poorly acquitted with....I wud suggest u to refrain from commenting and as a result sounding like a complete fool.....again!
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
@nadz , Aren’t you glad that they beat themselves not others.
You will not be questioned about their beating themselves on the day of judgement , will you be ?
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
dear nadz123…here is a link with many references…http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/azadari/en/chap9.php
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
I think even the shias bro cannot answer this one
Janaab if you're a mod, act like one.
Mirch & Nussairee nay thread jeet li.
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
mourning in shiaism is more then just ashura, or the ten days of muharram, it is full time. shiaism is mourning
shias might think im point scoring against them, but this is my honest assessment. its so clear that shiaism is mourning (eg wearing black) im sure less insecure shias will agree with me
even these can be said to be mourning (some celebration aspect to first one aswell)
edited
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
the reason behind this is our deep love for the Ahlul Bayt ..
it is human nature to feel sorrow at the death of your loved one.when a member of your family, or a beloved closed friend goes through any tragic difficlties of life .. our love for that person is basically demonstrated through our sharing of the sorrow ... the grief at the suffering of a beloved is even more intense than the grief of the sufferer ...
an example of that ... Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet Ismail agreedto sacrifice for the sake of Allah swt ...however, it was Prophet Ibrahim who went through more pain... the trial was basically greater on Propher Ibrahim than on Hazrat Ismail
so for shias Ahlul bayt are more beloved and dear ... thn their family/friends
its this great love for the Prophet' family that result into this intense grief at their suffering.
no personal loss for shia's is mourned so much as much as the suffering of the holy prophet's family ...
Secondly, they also give condolences to Hazrat Fatima ..
Prophets family lost so many members of their family .. there was no one who showed any sympathy or compassion towards their family after the tragedy of karbala ... they were not even allowed to cry, after Imam Hussain and his companions were matryed
... the kafila of karbala(including Imam Hussain beloved sister, Bibi Zainub, his 4 yr old daughter bibI Sakina and and many more close relatives wass held in prison under Yazeed rule in Kufa for almost an yr! ... they went through immense difficulties during this one yr!!
their hijabs were snatched and Imam Hussain and his Companions bodies were beheaded by yazid army and then he brought those heads infornt of Imam Hussain family ... just imagine the grief and pain they went through!! after losing everything! ... Infact, Imam hussain 4 yr old daughter died of grief in prison. Bibi ZainuB(Imam Hussain sister) gave a sermon in the court of Yazid! ...
here is a quote from it .. its a must listen! ... she was pointing towards those coward who stayed quiet during or after tragedy of Karbala in fear of Yazid rule mainly ...
**
"The praise is exclusively attributed to Allah. And greetings to my father (grand father), Muhammad, and to his pure and benevolent family. And then, Oh people of Kufa! Oh deceitful and reneger people! Do you weep? So let tears not be dried and let groans not be finished. ... Beware, such a bad preparation you have made for yourself that Allah became furious of you and you will be at punishment forever. Do you weep and cry? Yeah, by Allah, do weep numerously and do laugh less! Since you brought its shame and fault on yourself and you will not be able to cleanse it forever. ..."
**
hence, those who love prophet's family take this oppurtunity to express the sympathy. Hazrat Fatima was very sadded whn on the birth of Imam Hussain she found out ... tht her son would be killed in Karbala ... and that there would be no one to weep for the sufferings of their family ...The Holy Prophet saw promised his daughter that there would be rise of of such community who would mourn for her family every year.
Most Importantly, the Tragedy of Karabala is not abt mourning only! its way beyond that! ...
every muslim should remember the principles tht Imam Hussain died for ...
we should gain inspiration from his scarifices ...his determination to keep Islam alive ...
quote from Imam Hussain
"Don't you see that the truth is not followed and the falsehood is not discouraged? (The situation is so severe) that a Believer wishes to meet Allah. And today I don't see death but prosperity, and living with tyrants is nothing but disgust and disgrace."
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
^thats some serious stick youve been smoking
you know them zakirs who feed you these frenzies are not be taken seriously dont you?
**
Oh people of Kufa! Oh deceitful and reneger people! Do you weep? So let tears not be dried and let groans not be finished. ... Beware, such a bad preparation you have made for yourself that Allah became furious of you and you will be at punishment forever. Do you weep and cry? Yeah, by Allah, do weep numerously and do laugh less! Since you brought its shame and fault on yourself and you will not be able to cleanse it forever. ..."**
well we can agree on this
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
I had a Wahhabi Islamaiat teacher who wouldn’t reply to my salam in muharam because she would think I do matam during that month only.
.
I clarified that if she would prefer not to give jawab for this reason to refrain all year because matam isn’t limited to just Moharam.
Rasul (s) said “Ya Ali” in the battle of kheyber which is a famous ahadith narrated and accepted by all schools of faith; now how many Muslims you know who follow this Sunnah ?
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
im sure most people would have been called by 'ya' it just means 'oh'
if you say it to invoke dead imam (who couldnt help themselves) then thats shirk
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
shias ascribe superpowers to the imams
but here we see:
[QUOTE]
their hijabs were snatched
[/QUOTE]
is this what the imam knew would happen, is this what imam intended?
also the other imam was present and he allowed this? as some form of showcase theology!
[QUOTE]
Bibi Zainub, his 4 yr old daughter bibI Sakina and and many more close relatives wass held in prison under Yazeed rule in Kufa for almost an yr! ... they went through immense difficulties during this one yr!!
their hijabs were snatched and Imam Hussain and his Companions bodies were beheaded by yazid
[/QUOTE]
held them for one year then let them go? new imam escaped the killing spree ?
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
and is there any references anywhere quranic/hadith for one to do so, or from where is this tradition derived. Are there any shias who dont do this, and have reasons not to.
As long as they are not beating anyone else, others shouldn't bother. Everyone has his/her own beleif.
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
Rasul (s) said "Ya Ali" in the battle of kheyber which is a famous ahadith narrated and accepted by all schools of faith; now how many Muslims you know who follow this Sunnah ?
To be fair, Rasul pbuh, would have called lots and lots of people in this manner like Ya Omar, Ya Hudhaifa, Ya Zaid etc. This does not mean it is a Sunnah.
Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram
shias ascribe superpowers to the imams
but here we see:
is this what the imam knew would happen, is this what imam intended? also the other imam was present and he allowed this? as some form of showcase theology!
held them for one year then let them go? new imam escaped the killing spree ?
may Allah guide your fingers away from your keyboard and towards some real books..... and if the darkness in ur heart and poision in ur mind gives way to some light then u may realise the stature of the personalities u r talking about in such despicable manner........the stature the enjoyed not only in our Shia "rafidhi" books but books of every single sect of Islam.....and the esteem they were held in all the greatest Islamic jurists that ever lived (including the extremist like Ibn Taymiyah)..........