Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

nussairee what would you class as tamasha during matam? i saw you agreed with icono there, im just wondering what the agreement was on

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

"Allah say keray door tou taaleem bhi fitna
Imlaak bhi, aulaad bhi, jaageer bhi fitna
Na-haq k liye uthay tou shamsheer bhi fitna
Shamsheer he kia, nara-e-takbeer bhi fitna"

Can someone translate following words:
taaleem,
fitna,
Imlaak,
jaageer, Na-haq (no rights?),
shansheer,
nara-r-takbeer

Seems like some nice message is embedded here - would like to know what this is - thanks

Thanks you Muqawee (beow post) - sorry folks - please continue

Thanks Muqawee and Khaan - both of your translations helped

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Southie Ji... Let me PM you all this instead of derailing the thread.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram


Seems like some nice message is embedded here - would like to know what this is - thanks
[/QUOTE]
yes, there is indeed...Iqbal was a great philosopher/thinker and his poetry is often/mostly based on Islamic/Qur'aanic verses. i'll pm you later, iA

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

I never understood this fact, if Shia believes are true. How Allah SWT guarantees the protection of his final book and chooses an oppressor Umar R.A (who did so much harm to Ahle-Bait-Athaar) and his successor Uthman R.A to do this great job that will remain on Earth till Qiyamat in its original form.

Please, only Shia brothers answer this. I really want to know what they think of this fact and how they feel when reading Quran in the order that these two Sahaba compiled it (with consensus of ashaab-e-sufa and top notch Sahaba including Ali R.A). Why an alleged munafiq (who turned from Islam after Prophet SAW death and who beats her daughter etc etc) will do such a great job. When I am asking this question, I am assuming you don't believe in tahreef-e-Quran, or 10 para eaten by goat or real Quran being in the cave with 12th Imaam, you know what I mean. The things that you openly admit in public, that is that this Quran that we have in our houses (shia or sunni) is the complete Quran.

I would really appreciate if Sunni brothers don't reply to my post and let Shia brothers answer this one. Thanks. This question is bugging me for so long and every shia that I spoke to say that he believes this Quran is complete and there is no 'real sahifa' thingy in cave.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

I am assuming you don't believe in tahreef-e-Quran, or 10 para eaten by goat or real Quran being in the cave with 12th Imaam, you know what I mean.

I would really appreciate if Sunni brothers don't reply to my post and let Shia brothers answer this one. Thanks. This question is bugging me for so long and every shia that I spoke to say that he believes this Quran is complete and there is no 'real sahifa' thingy in cave.
[/QUOTE]

I have always wondered about this as well...anxiously awaiting a reply from our Shia brethren

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Brother I would suggest you to open a separate thread on this issue because in this thread we are discussing a different topic. I also want to know the answer from our Shia brothers / sisters on the issue you hilighted.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

thank god, they beat themselves and i get to enjoy haleem yummm

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

So their actions don't make you remember someone???

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

[mod]Please continue in civilize manner. :jazak: [/mod]

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Wasalam
I have only so much time to spend online so i will come back to more detailed topics (Sermon 91 and translation of letter 6.)

For brief Reply :

  1. YOU dont agree with authenticity of Nahjul Balagha.
  2. YOU find Hz. Ali a.s contradicting himself with Letter 6 and letter 28 in Nahjul Balagha
  3. hence YOU want me to beleive what you beleive ?

A non muslim can come to you and quote these two ayats from Quran
9:116 Lo! Allah! Unto Him belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. He quickeneth and He giveth death. And ye have, instead of Allah, no protecting friend (wali) nor helper.
5:55 Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).

In first ayya ALLAh says he alone is your wali and 2nd ayyat he says ALLAH his Prophet s.a.w and Mola Ali a.s is your wali.
You can explain to him thosand times that this isnt contradiction, Having Prophet s.a.w as a wali is same having ALLAH as wali… Prophet s.a.w be only your wali if ALLAH is your wali…but wud that help ?

I think others beside me have mentioned that Imam Ali a.s is using same logic that was once put on him and telling mahviyah he has no right on argue anymore.
You dont beleive in authenicity of nahjul blagha however you do read it to find contradictions and win arguments … With this apporach no one can convince you, If you read nahjul blagha for guiedence and read the whole book then you might have questions but your attitiude will change when u ask questions. So lets have your Xshia friend here for arguments so we can learn something from a irani scholar and give him piece of our mind.

Now back to contradicitions… If u dont beleive in shia books good for you but what about sunni books letter 28 can be found in sunni book well. letter # 28 is recorded by sunni scholars like Ahmad ibn Yahya Baladhur and Ibn jawzi in his tazkiratul khawas.

I have sunni friends and their beleive is that all 4 are same… Abu bakar umar usman ali… khuch farq nahi in charoon main. Or they believe that Khilafat isnt based on taqwah or knowledge, Abu bakar being 1st caliph doesnt mean he was better than others.

Now if per your believe Abu bakar is better than rest and then umar and then usman and then Ali… then how could maviya or Hazrat ayesha ever challege ALI a.s and delcare war on him ? obviuosslly out of all ALI a.s was better Muslim…

[200] – And we affirm the khilaafah (caliphate), after the Messenger of Allaah sall Allaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam firstly for: Aboo Bakr as-Siddeeq (radi Allaahu anhu) – affirming his excellence and precedence over the whole of the Ummah; then, for ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (radi Allaahu anhu); then for ‘Uthmaan (radi Allaahu anhu), then for ‘Alee ibn Abee Taalib (radi Allaahu anhu), and they are the rightly guided khulafaa (caliphs) and the rightly guided Imaams.

Now if above is sunni beleive then Maviya or Hz. Aisha werent sunni because they didnt find Hazrat Ali a.s a** rightly guided caliph **nor did they affirm his excellence over the whole ummah (among people who were alive).

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

i was hoping a shia would confirm what they feel as tamasha, since i dont know of anything which is not sanctioned. even what you could call 'baind baja' is sanctioned (afaik)

however i want to come back to topic title

shias hit themselves either by zanjir zani implements, or by seeni zani hand
this doesnt strike me as a matam but a guilty concience. i mean you wouldnt hit your ownself for a matam but when we see even shia hadiths cursing the killers of Husein RA it makes a little bit of sense

for example
"O people, I ask you by Allah do you know that you wrote to my father and tricked him? you gave him the oath and promised him allegiance then you fought him and let him down so Damn you and your choice! How dare you look at the prophet SAWS when he says "you killed my progeny and violated my sanctity, you are not of my nation!"

enacting the event would be different but we see chains and stuff being used on the back. hands beating down on the chest in sync with the crowd. this is definately self beating, not a way of feeling the pain of imam but self beating as a community

**you are not of my nation
**this is further emphasised by rituals not being found in the teachings of the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Lets just say May ALLAH Curse enemies of Ahleybait a.s :), May ALLAH curse each individual who hurt Ahleybait a.s in anyway. May ALLAH curse those who dont send Curse on enimies of Ahleybait a.s and try to protect enimies of ahleybait a.s.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

we believe in Allah Ta'ala and his justice, justice is already in progress for the killers of Husein RA and others of his creation

i believe the shias should stop hitting themselves and remove themselves from the fickleness of shiaism, this way they will become clear of the killing of Husein RA

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

[Yusufali 12:85] They said: "By Allah! (never) wilt thou cease to remember Joseph until thou reach the last extremity of illness, or until thou die!"

".. Imam Jaffer Sadiq ke ladke ka intiqaal hogya to kisy ny poocha ky jab ap ka ladka zinda tha or beemar tha to app ghamgeen they lekin on ky mout per ap khoosh hen to Imam jafer ny kaha Hum ahly beat bemari men ghamzada hoty hen pr jab hamary Ahly beat ka koi shakhes marta hy to Hum Razai Illahi per khush hoty "

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Salaamz brothers and sisters,

Remember us in your duas. Wasalam.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Aameen....

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Because it is the bad dua of sayyida zainab.

easy to understand example is ... a chor does chori ... but he himself comes and says to the people lets look for the chor .. same way .mardood yazeed committed this act of tyranny and then trying to be te innocent one .. organized and ordered maatam and history is a witness to this...

all in all.. this is an act of yazeediyat.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Which history told us that Yazeed did maatam for Shuhda e Karbala. Please come up with some authetic references instead of just relying on propaganda.

In Tareekh e Tabri there are some incidents mentioned that when Ahl e bayt reached in Yazeed's darbar, how arrognatly he spoke to them. He quoted Quranic verses to show that he was honored by Allah and (Na'ooz Billah) Al e Muhammad was insulted. He even said to them that stories told by your forefathers proved wrong (meaning he denied the truthfullness of Quran). In some books it is written that he also said that now we have revenged for Badr.

As far as Azaadari beginning is concerned, our Shia brothers will told us about the history of this and Taziya and Zuljinah, etc, because it will clear things in a better way.

As per Tabri, in Shaam (Syria), women from Yazeed's family when heard about Kabala and met Ahle Bait they mourned and did Noha khwani.

It is mentioned in Tabri that when news of Imam Hussain (RA) shahadat reached in Makkah / Medina women of Banu Hashim did mourned and expressed their emotions through Nohas. Seeing this Umro bin Saeed (Governor of Medina appointed by Yazeed) said that our women were also mourned like that when our men were killed.