Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

You're indeed right.

102

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

and youve just been duped by taqiyah (deception)

the shias consider themselves as shias of Ali, therefore takfeer on the companions who ruled or those who gave them bayat is automatic to the extent that they do not believe in the God that allows others to become rulers

obviously joe shia on the street can have more moderate views but its no good talking about joe, who is far from shiaism or observing taqiyah ready for another day.

shiaism is about equality of love and hate, for as much love they proclaim for Ali is only matched by the hate they have for anyone who was not his shia. at this stage of shiism there is no ayat or hadith or scholarly opinion which can come in their way

103

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

this coming from a shiite

104

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

thats wishful thinking
watch the last seconds of this for some advice

105

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Keep in mind ALLAH has called Ibrahim a.s a shia of Nuh a.s.

106

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Given the IQ level u have been exhibiting publicly....it was always going to be a big ask of u to read a word with its right pronunciation.....

107

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

there is no prohibition of keeping a name 'Yazeed' as u mention the literal meaning of the word is ok........but as u wud agree there is strong stigma attached to the name therefore it is avoided by everyone..........such as if a father in Pakistan names a child Ronaldo.....obviously the kid will grow under the shade of that name and its obvious, popular affiliation with football........there have been good personalities with the name Yazid in the history......we also hate the name Muawiya (which literally means a barking animal) but Muawiya ibn Yazid who was grandson of Muawiya and shared his name is a figure seriously revered and respected by Shias for his rightful, brave stance........ but the name 'Yazeed' has become a sign of tyranny, injustice, oppression and so on.......a bit like no father will ever name their child Firaoun for he is also a symbol of taaghot I do not know anybody who wud want to name their child 'Yazid'.....so there is no prohibition but their is dislike for the name 'Yazid'....

that teacher of urs must b very short sighted indeed......and if u remember what Josh wrote then pls PM me......

108

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

keep in mind Allah has told us not be shiites, and told us your clan has nothing to do with the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam

and we can clearly see from your carnival that you are follow zorastarians, jews, christians but not the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

approved by the imams but not by shias. shias hate the names

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

He also has warned us from the evil creatures who have created divisions. We will see in your and my lifetime insha'allah if the alleged false Prophet has led me and the people who believe in that so called false Prophet to Abyss. Till yet he has not, but how will a blind see, locked up with his fellows in the past and waiting for Isa (as) to come to handle his and the case of his fellows.

Tell me when Allah has put his heavenly light back into your eyes. Now focus on this Thread and don't tell me anything till you have not read the books of the so called false Prophet, when your Scholars became blind and the false Prophet was the only one who defended Islam against the heavy attacks by the Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and others.

111

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^ there you go again heaping praise on the imposter.

Your applauding was pitching for your cult. Now we can stick to the topic.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Salaam Brother Nussairee I am so glad that you are pleased by me referencing to the gem of a book that is called nahjul balagha.

Let’s refer to Letter 8 from Nahjul Balagha which Imam Ali (ra) wrote to Hz. Muawiyah (ra) qualifying his election on par with that Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar and Hz. Uthman (May Allah be pleased with them all).

Following is in Arabic and note that Hz. Ali (ra) has used the word Imam - highlighted in red.

إِنَّهُ بَايَعَنِي الْقَوْمُ الَّذِينَ بَايَعُوا أَبَا بَكْر وَعُمَرَ وَعُثْمانَ عَلَى مَا بَايَعُوهُمْ عَلَيْهِ، فَلَمْ يَكُنْ لِلشَّاهِدِ أَنْ يَخْتَارَ، وَلاَ لِلغَائِبِ أَنْ يَرُدَّ، وَإنَّمَا الشُّورَى لِلْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالاَْنْصَارِ، فَإِنِ اجْتَمَعُوا عَلَى رَجُل وَسَمَّوْهُ إِمَاماً كَانَ ذلِكَ لله رِضىً، فَإِنْ خَرَجَ عَنْ أَمْرِهِمْ خَارِجٌ بِطَعْن أَوْبِدْعَة رَدُّوهُ إِلَى مَاخَرَجَ منه، فَإِنْ أَبَى قَاتَلُوهُ عَلَى اتِّبَاعِهِ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ، وَوَلاَّهُ اللهُ مَا تَوَلَّى.
وَلَعَمْرِي، يَا مُعَاوِيَةُ، لَئِنْ نَظَرْتَ بِعَقْلِكَ دُونَ هَوَاكَ لَتَجِدَنِّي أَبْرَأَ النَّاسِ مِنْ دَمِ عُثْمانَ، وَلَتَعْلَمَنَّ أَنِّي كُنْتُ فِي عُزْلَة عَنْهُ، إِلاَّ أَنْ تَتَجَنَّى(1) ; فَتَجَنَّ مَا بَدَا لَكَ! وَالسَّلاَمُ.

http://www.islamology.com/Resources/Nahj_Imam/Letters/book/06.htm

Below is the correct and accurate translation of the above.

Verily, the people who paid allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, have paid allegiance to me based on the same principles as the allegiance to them. So anyone who was present has no right to go against his pledge of allegiance, and anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it. And verily shura (consultation) is only the right of the Muhajirs and the Ansar.** So if they decide upon a man and declare him their imam**, then it is with the pleasure of Allah. If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people. If he persists, then fight with him for leaving that which has been accepted by the believers. And Allah shall let him wander misguided and not guide him.

Points worth noting:

  1. Hz. Ali’s (ra) appointment to Khilafate me based on the same principles as that of Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar and Hz. Uthman (May Allah be pleased with them all).
  2. anyone who was present has no right to go against his pledge of allegiance
  3. anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it
  4. shura (consultation) is only the right of the Muhajirs and the Ansar
  5. if they decide upon a man and declare him their IMAM, then it is with the pleasure of Allah.
  6. If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people
  7. If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people.
  8. If he persists, then fight with him for leaving that which has been accepted by the believers
  9. And Allah shall let him wander misguided and not guide him

Note that Hz. Ali (ra) has used the word IMAM in point No. 5.

He has taken Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar and Hz. Uthman (May Allah be pleased with them all) as rightful IMAMS of the Believers and this was with the pleasure of Allah.

Now do you agree with Imam Ali (ra). Remember you take him to be your First infallible Imam!!!

Now look at the tricks the Shia play:

They shamelessly and without any fear of Allah (swt) interpolate words into the translation of letter 8 of Nahjul Balagha which were never uttered by Hz. Ali.

This is pathetic and shows the Shias have to rely on devious tricks to advance their Beliefs! This is getting pathetically low.
Interpolate: To change or falsify (a text) by introducing new or incorrect material.

Don’t believe me? Check the translation of letter 8 of Nahjul Balagha

Verily, those who took the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman have sworn allegiance to me. Now those who were present at the election have no right to go back against their oaths of allegiance and those who were not present on the occasion have no right to oppose me. And so far as Shura (limited franchise or selection) was concerned it was supposed to be limited to Muhajirs and Ansars and it was also supposed that whomsoever they selected became caliph as per approval and pleasure of Allah. If somebody goes against such decision, then he should be persuaded to adopt the course followed by others, and if he refuses to fall in line with others, then war is the only course left open to be adopted against him and as he has refused to follow the course followed by the Muslims, Allah will let him wander in the wilderness of his ignorance and schism.

See it at the following link - http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/letters/letter6.htm#letter6

Following are interpolate words

it was supposed to be
also supposed to be

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^bro, u r a learned man.....r u seriously trying to prove successorship of the khulafa and tht too using Nahjul Balagha?......r u sure u r not quoting the letter of Imam Ali out of context once again?........a large portion of Nahjul Balagha is compilation of letters exchanged between Ameerul Momineen and Muawiya.....and if u r genuine abt it then u wud have already studied the prior and later correspondence along with the historical context........and I think that u already know what Ameerul Momineen is saying to the corrupt king of Syria in this letter but u just want to have a debate.......Imam AS is throwing his logic back to him.........but anyway if it pleases u then I too am happy to discuss the correspondence in terms of language and background......

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Salaam brother Nussairee No I am not trying to prove anything to you - my respone was to you quoting ‘sermon of Shaqshaqiah’.

Letter 6 of Nahjul Balgha says wonderful things - only if one reads them without tainted glasses. There is a lot of good stuff in the book. And quite a lot where Imam Ali (ra) is rebuking his own followers. My apologies I wish I had the time for endless debates.

I didn’t see you disapproving the action of Shias erroneously mistranslating with intent the letter 6 of Nahjul Balagha. Where is the fear of Allah (swt)?

I think the blood - letting mataam gives Shias a not so good image. I think a lot of Shias scholars feel the same.

the following link shows that.

http://www.abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=281076

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

you r lying and that too on what ALLAH said ! can u put source where ALLAH said that ?

My point was simple, Shia is the word ALLAH j.j has used for Ibrahim a.s and if u call shia ****tes applys to every shia inclduing Hazrat Ibrahim a.s.... but u r too blind to see this. Dont insult the Prophet a.s while u show ur hate for shia's.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

A person who beleives Abu Bakar is better than Ali a.s coz Abu bakar is first Caliph and Ali is fourth... Knowing that the decision was made by humans can not be a learned person.

Based on this After Prophet s.a.w list of best people muslims goes like this.
1. Abu Bakar
2. Umar
3. Usman
4. Ali a.s
5. Hassan
6. Muaviya
7. Yazeed

117

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

well argued.

118

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

there is nothing wrong with the word. since Allah has banned being shiaism for us, it is detestable to be one. to permenently be be one is kufr, and proof you are a shiite is that you have nothing to do with the Prophet SAW (amongst other proofs)

you were the guy that didnt acknowledge the blank you got from shiaism regarding etikaf so i doubt your sincerety in any case

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Brother Aqeel don't be that upset - I ain't a learned person.

Refer to the following hadith:

Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal extracted that Huthayfah (RA) has said that the Prophet (SAW) said: "The Prophecy will remain amongst you as long as Allah wills, then when Allah will he will take it away. Then it will be Khilafah Rashidah for as long as Allah wishes. Then when he wishes he will take it away. Then there will be hereditary leadership for as long as Allah wills. Then when Allah wills he will take it away. And then there will be tyrannical rule for as long as Allah wills. Then when he wills he will take it away. Then there will be a Khilafah on the method of the Prophet. And then the Prophet (SAW) remained silent." [Musnad Imam Ahmed 4/273]

It clearly states that after Prophet’s (saw) passing away there will be Khilafah Rashidah.

First 5 in your list qualify for Khilafah Rashidah. Hz. Ali (ra) clearly states the selection of Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar and Hz. Uthman (May Allah be pleased with them) was with the pleasure of Allah.

Now read the sermon 6 of Nahjul Balagha – before that remove your sectarian tainted glasses.

Verily, the people who paid allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, have paid allegiance to me based on the same principles as the allegiance to them. So anyone who was present has no right to go against his pledge of allegiance, and anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it. And verily shura (consultation) is only the right of the Muhajirs and the Ansar. So if they decide upon a man and declare him their imam, then it is with the pleasure of Allah. If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people. If he persists, then fight with him for leaving that which has been accepted by the believers. And Allah shall let him wander misguided and not guide him.

Points worth noting:

1) Hz. Ali’s (ra) appointment to Khilafate me based on the same principles as that of Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar and Hz. Uthman (May Allah be pleased with them all).
2) anyone who was present has no right to go against his pledge of allegiance
3) anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it
4) shura (consultation) is only the right of the Muhajirs and the Ansar
5) if they decide upon a man and declare him their IMAM, then it is with the pleasure of Allah.
6) If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people
7) If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people.
8) If he persists, then fight with him for leaving that which has been accepted by the believers
9) And Allah shall let him wander misguided and not guide him

Note that Hz. Ali (ra) has used the word IMAM in point No. 5.
He has taken Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar and Hz. Uthman (May Allah be pleased with them all) as rightful IMAMS of the Believers and this was with the pleasure of Allah.

Now do you agree with Imam Ali (ra). Remember you take him to be your First infallible Imam!!!!

Imam Ali (ra) has got the sequence right in spite you feeling otherwise.

You must heed your first Imam rather than ayatullahs and zakirs

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

if first 5 claiphs r appointed with the pleasure of ALLAH then it was also ALLAHS will to appoint next 2. Ferro cudnt have been king without ALLAHS will. u get the point.

I didnt bother reading ur post since i read ur logic of rating Abu Bakar better than ALI a.s on basis of being 1st caliph.

However u need to read ur posts while u post em. You copied same sermon twice. Point #6 and #7 are same in both posts.

Also lecture # 6 in Nahjul blagha isnt what u posted.
http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/6.htm