Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

tsk tsk. These childish hateful arguments reminded me of a shayr:

Musa o Firoun, Shabbir or Yazid
een do quwwat az hayaat aamad padeed

Imam Hussein does not just belong to shias but to sunnis as well. Your mocking him is equivalent to mocking all Islam.

I know some people are what Quran calls summum bukmun umyun. So following is for those who want to learn:
Imam ZainulAbedin gave his own sermons in the court of Yazid, alongside Zainab bint Imam Ali. He did that even though he was very sick at that time.

Imam Zainul Abideen’s sermon in Syria
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/383298-imam-zainul-abideens-sermon-in-syria.html

Yazid asked one of his employed preachersto go on the ‘Mimber’ (pulpit) of the Mosque and abused Imam Ali(a.s.) and his family. When the preacher finished his lecture, Imam Sajjad(a.s.) turned to him and said, “Be ashamed of yourself, you evil speaker. With your words you have displeased Allah so as to please people”. Then the Imam(a.s.) asked Yazid to let him talk to the people. Yazid refused to do so. The people of Syria, however, forced Yazid to allow the Imam to go on the Mimber.

Once on the Mimber, Imam Zain al-Abideen(a.s.) first praised Allah(swt) and His Messenger(pbuh&hf). After that the Imam gave along and very powerful speech letting the Syrians know the great position of Imam Husain(a.s.) to Allah(swt), and how evil Yazid and his family were. Part of the speech is summarised below:

"O listeners Allah has given us (Ahle Bart) six things which no one else has. He has given us special Wisdom, Patience, Dignity, Power of speech, Courage and Respect. He gave us special benefit of belonging to the family of his Prophet. To us belong Hamza and Jafar. To us belong Asadullah (The lion of Allah, Imam Ali(a.s.)). To us belong the leader of the youths of paradise (Imam Hassan(a.s.) and Imam Hussain(a.s.)).

"Those who know me, know me. Those who do not, then know that **I am the son of Mecca and Mina. I am the son of Zamzam and Safa. I am the son of he who gave Zakat to the poor. I am the son of the best of those who have ever put on Ihram and performed ceremonies of Hajj. I am the son of he who was taken on the night journey from house of Allah to the Mosque of Aqsa and then to Miraj. I am the son of he who was taken around by Gibrael to the Lote-tree of the boundary (Sidratul Muntaha).

“I am the son of Muhammad Mustafa(pbuh&hf). I am the son of Ali Al-Murtaza(a.s.) who fought the polytheists in the battle till they submitted to Islam and fought in the presence of the Prophet until his sword was broken and to whom Zulfikar was given. I am the son of he who had the honour to migrate twice in Islam. I am the son of Fatima the best women of the world…”.**

The effect of the speech was so powerful that everybody in the Mosque began to weep and to blame Yazid. Yazid was afraid that if the Imam continued his speech, there would be a revolution and revolt. At the same time Yazid could not stop the Imam and get him down from the Mimber. He therefore ordered a “Muazzin” to give Azan, knowing that this would automatically cut the Imam’s speech. But he underestimated the Imam’s bravery and intelligence. The Imam stopped his speech but did not get down from the Mimber. When the Muazzin said " Allahu Akber" the Imam testified Allah’s greatness. When the Muazzin said, “Ash hadu anna Muhammaddan Rasulullah”, the Imam stopped the Muazzin from going any further. He then turned to Yezid and asked him. "Tell me o Yazid, was Muhammad(pbuh&hf) your grandfather or mine? If you say he was your grandfather it will be an open lie and if you say he was my grandfather then why have you killed his son and imprisoned his family? Why have you killed my father and brought his women and children to this city as prisoners?"

Yazid had no reply to give.

The effect of this was to turn Syrians against Yazid. Everyone of them now found out about Yazid’s crimes that he had committed against the Prophet (pbuh&hf) and his family. They began to blame him and ask for the release of Imam Zain al-Abidin(a.s.) and the womenfolk of the house of the Prophet. Yazid was now afraid that if he did not act fast his rulership would be lost. He therefore freed Imam Zain al-Abidin(a.s.) and let. him return to Medina with full honour and respect.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

http://www.dorar.net/enc/hadith?skeys=سفهى+وحداثة

the link above is for those who can see…dont u worry shardmanny…I dont expect u to see an elephant standing infront of ur nose either…but I do promise tht if u continue to insult the same progeny of Mohammad whom u send blessings in each of ur prayers…provided u pray that is…then I will show u a glimpse of ur kings and malooks from ur own books…the same kings who killed the family of the Prophet and took the remaining ones as prisoners…killed and exiled the noble companions of the Prophet and raped their womenfolk…2 of ur kings attacked and burnt the Kaaba and killed the ppl including companions within it…thats some curriculum vitae…

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^Correction; actually I won't bother with Shardmanny.....

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Shias cry and show their sorrow to remind people like shardmanny of what happened. Truth hurts.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Shardmanny's disrespect of Ahlulbaits is only indicating one thing and that is that He has not forgotten the humiliating defeat of Badr, Khayber, Khandaq.

Shardmanny just remember that revenge of khayber , Badr etc was already taken in Karbala so take a chill pill now and move on with your life.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

im trying to build up a full picture here of the timeline

a shia poster earlier told us:

  1. released after almost one year
  2. they were not even allowed to cry, after Imam Hussain and his companions were matryed
  3. their hijabs were snatched
  4. then he brought those heads infornt of Imam Hussain family

an ayatollah tells us:
**5. Head of Imam Hussain alayhis-salam **

One of the miracles that Allah Almighty gave to Imam Hussain alayhis-salam was that his sacred head spoke as it was being carried from Karbala– in Iraq– to Shaam – modern Syria–
6. and back to Karbala where it was buried in the grave where his sacred body had been buried.
7. In the course of the entire passage of the women and children captives, with which the heads of the martyrs of Karbala were also carried from Karbala to Shaam and back, 8
8. the sacred head of Imam Hussain alayhis-salam used to recite the holy Qur’an, and this phenomenon proved instrumental in guiding the people to Truth.
9.The sacred head of Imam Hussain alayhis-salam also spoke in the court of the evil Yazid. When the sacred head of Imam Hussain alayhis-salam arrived at the court of Yazid, amongst others, the Roman envoy of the emperor of Rome was also present.

where would some of these go in the version you posted? in order to create a timeline

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

i intend you no harm, sister the ghulat rule current shiaism. be-aware that they call to the fire

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Are you not late for your next mosque bombing?

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

loji karlo gal, her not giving salam is same as you doing matam. both on the same path.

and I say to my arab friend, ya muhammad lets go out. we go out and have a good time. what is this nonsense of “ya”. a Prophet asking for help from his companion?:smack: Ya Allah madad kar…

my personal take on all this crying and hitting oneself, it’s extremely silly. one can only laugh at those who hit themselves. i know i do. :slight_smile:

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

I am just speechless at the insensitivity and- frankly speaking- ignorance of some of the people here.

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Exactly that's what Yazeed's army did when Imam's head was on spear and his family was crying.

Go on tell us more as to what else you do to celebrate when you see somebody crying at Karbala's tragedy.

Do you also sometime feel angry at Ahlulbait for saving Islam? just wondering....

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

cry me a river please. bringing up names to insult me and associating yourselves with the family of the prophet to look like higher than thou... cry me a bloody river!

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^Janjua...if u r Muslim and have interest in knowledge of Islam then pls tell me....during the final pilgrimage on at least four different spots what 2 sources did the Prophet SAWW tell us to stay associated with till the day of judgement?.........
Secondly......what is the only wage asked by Allah against Prophet's messengership, in the Quran, from the believers till the day of judgement?

Interestingly u say that u don't care yet ur comments show a bit of enthusiasm....

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Peace All

A martyrs death is a noble one ... grief should be brief ... then we should console with the idea that "what belongs to Allah (SWT) is for Him to take" and we don't say "martyrs are dead, they are alive" - so the initial loss may hurt but ongoing lamenting is not justified ... even with the initial loss we should not move to a state of despair - for despair is a state of distrust with the Will of Allah (SWT).

A stern shaykh who seldom smiled and known for his strictness had a pious son. His son passed away and where people would expect him to cry, the Shaykh smiled after consoling himself. He was asked about his odd reaction and his reply was that:

"Allah has loved for Himself what I loved for myself" - what beautiful insight - When Allah (SWT) takes a soul He does so out of Love and brings it to Himself and what pleased the Shaykh was that his direction of love was in the same person giving him comfort.

Love is not remorse - remorse is guilt and despair

Today I believe Sayyiduna Hussein (RA) is amongst those green birds in paradise - the souls of those who were martyred - alive not dead. For sure Allah (SWT) will give due to all those people who tried to double-cross members of the Ahl-al-Bait ... He will give due to any who didn't pull their socks up to defend and He will give due to any who oppressed and fought without honour.

For sure people become proud that their children become martyrs - but here I see no such sentiment ... I wonder why?

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Psyah, wht u have said abt martyrdom and the lofty status that come with it is completely shared by us..........that is why u do not see us mourning the 54 of our ppl lost in Kabul........nor the 19 lost in Baghdad.......we r happy for them and it is our belief that they r in a better place.......and Insha Allah their sacrifice will be accepted and rewarded for........I have personally lost 2 members of my family in Pakistan for their faith......and at that occasion too I remember very well my family mourning not the family members but Imam Hussein AS and other sacrifices of the family of the Prophet SAWW........and tht is because what Imam Hussein AS sacrificed in the way of religion in one day is the grandest sacrifice ever.........u being well aware with the uloom related to theology do not need me going over the many narration I am sure........

And why Karbala is not celebrated but commemorated is because that is what we r commanded and shown to do by the Prophet and Imams of Ahlul Bayt.......the narrations r documented in both Shia and Sunni books...........Imam Sadiq famously during the hajj held majlis of Imam Hussein where hajjis were told of the event of Karbala........just to highlight the philosophy behind the 'sadness' that surrounds the tradgedy was explained by Imam Zainul Abideen when a companion of his asked him that why he continues to cry for Imam Hussein after so many years specially given when many ppl in his family including his father, uncle, grandfather, great uncle all were martyred in the way of Islam....and thus martyrdom was the hallmark of his family.........so why reserve special mourning for his father imams Hussein only?

Imam replied......u have done injustice.......indeed martyrdom is the hallmark of our family......but the womenfolk of out household being taken prisoner and paraded through markets and the cities and the courtyard is not what we deserved..........he said that his father was slaughtered like a sheep while hungry and thirsty.....

Therefore as long as the rememberence of Karbala is alive.....the fight against the oppressors and injustice and for the principles of Islam will carry on.......thus the great thinker Iqbal says.....

Qatl-E Hussain Asl Men Marg-E Yazid Hai
Islam Zinda Hota Hai Har Karbala Ke Ba’d

there’s not much left to say.......

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

bro I won’t say much but request u to watch this short video…http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ReTowqWbeIM

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Peace Nussairee

I feel the only reason to cry is because we as an ummah failed to protect Imam Hussein ... the crying should be a result of a guilty conscience and nothing else.

Surely we cannot cry over the fact that Imam Hussein refused to fight ... this was his jihad ... in a time when everyone was fighting his sacrifice was undertaken to end the conflict. It is a shame that we didn't stop fighting when we were told to stop fighting ... when we were shown by Imam Hussein that fighting is not the solution.

Why do people cry over his great sacrifice I don't think I'll ever understand it ... I agree it is not something to celebrate, it may indeed be something to observe - but the better way to observe it is to understand that:

a) Sacrifice is the wholemark of nobility - hence we should sacrifice
b) Avoid conflict because that was the lesson we were being taught by Imam Hussein

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

^it is strange that u restrict the possible reason behind crying to "guilt" only......crying is done for many different reasons and the it is not limited to an outcome of 'guilt'..........crying can be done out of love such as when Yaqoob AS cried in grief of losing his son.......

"And he turned away from them, and said: O my sorrow for Yusuf! and his eyes became white on account of the grief, and he was a repressor (of grief)."

...........crying is also done out of humility and is a sign of faith as Quran says.....

"Those were some of the Prophets whom Allah favored... When verses of the Most Merciful were recited to them, they fell down prostrate, crring."

........besides the Sunnat of the Prophet SAWW in regards to the tragedy of Karbala is to weep and lament and not otherwise.........I keep on giving references frm reliable Sunni texts but it seems it all goes invisible.......anyway.....in Mushkawat Sharif on the authority of Ummul Fazal (wife of Hazrat Abbas), in Sahi Tirmizi, in Musnad Ibne Hanbal, Imam Bahaqi in his Sunan on authority of Ibn Abbas, Tabarani on authority of Ummul Momineen Zainab RA, Imam Hakim in Mustadrak on authority of Ibn Abbas, Ibn Hajar Makki in Sawahirul Muharriqa, Shah Mohaddis in Siras Shahadatayn and many books of Sunni present reports of Prophet SAWW not only foretelling the tragedy of Karbala but also crying on it along with the people who surrounded him........I will present u text of two more narrations here......

ا الربيع بن منذر عن أبيه قال : كان حسين بن علي يقول من دمعتا عيناه فينا دمعة أو قطرت عيناه فينا قطرة اثواه الله عز و جل الجنة*
یعنی
:حسین بن علی علیہا السلام ] فرمایا کرتے تھے جو کوئی ہمارے اوپر ایک آنسو بہائے یا ایک قطرہ اشک بہائے خدا وند اس کا اجر ،جنت قرار دیگا

فضائل الصحابة ج 2 ص 675
المؤلف : أحمد بن حنبل أبو عبد الله الشيباني
الناشر : مؤسسة الرسالة - بيروت
الطبعة الأولى ، 1403 - 198

*Narrated Umm Salamah

Salma said, "I went to visit Umm Salamah and found her weeping. I asked her what was making her weep and she replied that she had seen Allah's
Messenger (peace be upon him) (meaning in a dream) with dust on his head and beard. She asked him what was the matter and he replied, `I have
just been present at the slaying of al-Husayn.'" (Tirmidhi, hadith 1627)

tarikh tabari is not a Shia book and it records tht the sky wept blood the day Hussein was slaughtered.......many books of history report similar incidents on authority of companions.........even today Khaak e shifa turns red right at the time of the martyrdom of Imam Hussein which took place at the time of Asr........I will be happy to post a video to show the living miracle......

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Very well said.

Expression of grief is allowed and was allowed in the Prophet’s (SAW) time as well.

I would like to add the following:

There are certainly Sunni Hadiths that state that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself did WEEP for the dead. Al-Bukhari records:

Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah:

When my father was martyred, I lifted the sheet from his face AND WEPT and the people forbade me to do so BUT THE PROPHET DID NOT FORBID ME. Then my aunt Fatima began weeping and the Prophet said, “It is all the same whether you weep or not. The angels were shading him continuously with their wings till you shifted him (from the field).”
**Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 336
**
And:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: We went with Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) to the blacksmith Abu Saif, and he was the husband of the wet-nurse of Ibrahim (the son of the Prophet), Allah’s Apostle took Ibrahim and kissed him and smelled him and later we entered Abu Saif’s house and at that time Ibrahim was in his last breaths, and the eyes of Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) started shedding tears. ‘Abdur Rahman bin ‘Auf said, “O Allah’s Apostle, even you are weeping!” He said, “O Ibn ‘Auf, this is mercy.” Then he wept more and said, “These eyes are shedding tears and the heart is grieved, and we will not say except what pleases our Lord, O Ibrahim! Indeed we are grieved by your separation.”**
Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 390
**
There is also proof that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) wept for his mother who died decades before, a fact that significantly weakens the Nasibi claim that weeping for the dead cannot take place after three days (this is to refute Shiites who weep for Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام) after more than a thousand years). Imam Muslim records:

Abu Huraira reported: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) visited the grave of his mother AND HE WEPT, and moved others around him to weep, and said: I sought permission from my Lord to beg forgiveness for her but it was not granted to me, and I sought permission to visit her grave and it was granted to me. So visit the graves, for that makes you mindful of death.**
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2130
**
According to this Sunni Hadith, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his Sahabah (رضي الله عنهم) wept for a pagan woman decades after her death. Why then do these Nawasib** wail when we weep for the grandson of the Prophet ****(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) who was martyred **by the founder of the Salafi sect?

MATAM (edited by al-Arnaut) records that Aisha said:

ان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قبض وهو في حجري ثم وضعت رأسه على وسادة وقمت ألتدم مع النساء واضرب وجهي

Allah’s Apostle died in my lap. I then placed his head on a pillow AND STARTED DOING ILTIDAM with the other women AND I BEAT MY FACE.

This is where the bigger crisis rests for the Nawasib. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, vol. 6, p. 274, [******](“http://www.islamww.com/booksww/book_search_results.php?bkid=845&id=27619")]("http://www.islamww.com/booksww/book_search_results.php?bkid=845&id=27619”)

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Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

012.084
YUSUFALI: And he turned away from them, and said: "How great is my grief for Joseph!" And his eyes became white with sorrow, and he fell into silent melancholy.
PICKTHAL: And he turned away from them and said: Alas, my grief for Joseph! And his eyes were whitened with the sorrow that he was suppressing.
SHAKIR: And he turned away from them, and said: O my sorrow for Yusuf! and his eyes became white on account of the grief, and he was a repressor (of grief).

It is true that Yaqoob (AS) felt grief, but it is also true that he (AS) suppressed it. He did not urge it on and he did not unleash it. It is also true that grief is felt for a lost love ... but this is not the same - for the one who is martyred. The grief of Yaqoob (AS) came naturally and is not considered an act of piety ... coupled with the references for mourning in our Deen we should lament for 3 days ... then move on with life.

Decent crying is far removed from a frenzy self-flaggelation - the likes of what create euphoric trance like states due to rushing endorphins - I see no one admiring the sacrifice of Imam Hussein (AS) ... everyone is concentrating on how the bodies were treated and that being the cause of grief.