Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

"The praise is exclusively attributed to Allah. And greetings to my father (grand father), Muhammad, and to his pure and benevolent family. And then, Oh people of Kufa! Oh deceitful and reneger people! Do you weep? So let tears not be dried and let groans not be finished. ... Beware, such a bad preparation you have made for yourself that Allah became furious of you and you will be at punishment forever. Do you weep and cry? Yeah, by Allah, do weep numerously and do laugh less! Since you brought its shame and fault on yourself and you will not be able to cleanse it forever. ..."

^ Where is this quote from?

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

quote is from Bibi Zainub's sermon in the court of Yazid!
when saw Yazid disrespecting Imam Hussain's head she stood up!!

here is the full sermon! if anyone wants to read! ... powerful speech by Bibi Zainub!

Do you, Yazid, think that – when you blocked all our avenues of the earth and the horizons of the heavens before us, so we were driven as captives – that we are worthless in the eyes of Allah and that you are respectful in His eyes? Or is it because you enjoy with Him a great status? So, you look down at us and become arrogant, elated, when you see the world submissive to you and things are done as you want them, and when our authority and power became all yours?
**
But wait! Have you forgotten that Allah said, **"Do not regard those who disbelieved that we grant them good for themselves? We only give them a respite so that they may increase their sins, and for them there is a humiliating torment."
(3:178)

Is it fair, O son of the "Released Ones" that you keep your ladies and bond maidens in their chambers (under protection), and at the same time you drive the daughters of the Messenger of Allah as captives with their veils removed and faces exposed, taken by their enemies from one land to another, being viewed by those at watering places as well as those who man your forts, with their faces exposed to the looks of everyone – near or distant, lowly or honourable, having none of their men with them nor any of their protectors?
**
But **what can be expected from one descended from those whose mouths chewed the liver of the purified ones(refering to Prophet's uncle Hazrat Hamza as.. whose liver was chewed by Hinda. mawaiya mother)
and whose flesh grows out of the blood of the martyrs? How can it be expected that one who looks at us with grudge and animosity, with hatred and malice, would not hate us – the Ahlul Bayt? Besides, you, without feeling any guilt or weighing heavily what you recite saying, They would have been very much delighted, Then they’d have said, "May your hands, O Yazid, never be paralyzed."

How dare you hit the lips of Abu Abdillah (A.S.), the Master of the Youths of Paradise? But why should you not do so, since you stirred a wound that almost healed, and since all mercy is removed from your hear, having shed the blood of the offspring of Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and his progeny, and the stars on the earth from among the family of Abdul-Muttalib? Then you cite your mentors as if you speak to them. Soon shall you be lodged with them, and soon shall you wish you were paralyzed and muted and never said what you said nor what you did.

O Allah, take what belongs to us out of his hands, seek revenge against those who oppressed us, and let Your wrath descend upon whoever shed our blood and killed our protectors! By Allah, *you have burnt only our skin, you have cut only our flesh, and you shall com face to face with the Messenger of Allah, peace of Allah be upon him and his progeny, bearing the burdens of the blood which you have shed, the blood of his offspring, and of his sanctities which you violated, when Allah gathers them together and seeks equality on their behalf.
*

"And do not reckon those who are slain in the way of Allah as dead. Nay! They are living with their Lord, receiving their sustenance." (3:169)

It is quite sufficient that Allah is your judge and Muhammad, peace and blessing be upon his progeny, is your opponent and (Archangel) Jibraeel as the supporter (of Muhammad). All those who instigated you to do what you did and all those who put you in charge due to which you are a playing havoc with the lives of the Muslims will know for certain how evil the end of the oppressors is and which of you shall have the worst place and will be the least protected?

Although calamities have forced me to speak to you, I see you trivial in my eyes and find your verbal attacks great and regard your rebukes too much to bear, but the eyes are tearful, and the chests are filled with depression. What is even stranger is that the honoured Party of Allah is being killed by the Party of the "Released Ones"Party of Shaytan. Such hands are dripping with our blood; such mouths are feeding on our flesh, while those sacred and pure corpses are offered as food to the wild beasts of the desert and are dirtied by the brutes. If you regard us as your booty, you shall soon find us as your opponents -that will be when you find nothing but what your hands had committed.

"And your Lord never treats His servants unjustly." (41:46)

To Allah is my complaint, and upon Him do I rely.

So scheme whatever you wish to scheme, and carry out your plots, and intensify your efforts, for, by Allah, you shall never be able to obliterate our mention, nor will you ever be able to kill the revelation (that was revealed to us), nor will you ever exalt our position, nor will your shame ever be washed away. Your view shall be proven futile, your days limited in number, and your wealth wasted on the Day when the caller calls out,

*"The curse of Allah be upon the oppressors." *(11:18)

All praise is due to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, who sealed the life of our early ones with happiness and forgiveness, and that of our last ones with martyrdom and mercy. We plead to Allah to complete His rewards for them, grant them an increase, and recompense us pleasingly. He is the most Merciful, the most Compassionate, Allah suffices us, and He is the best Guardian

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Bhai it was my personal experience when i asked my shia friends they didnt even knew it
There was nothing personal

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Please forgive my ignorance on the topic, but what is the authenticity of this sermon? who wrote it down at the time? and where is it documented today?

Also please can someone else clarify, my little understanding was that when the Prophet PBUH was shown what was going to happen to his family, he didnt actually mention it anyone? those of you who have far greater knowledge of this please also let me know where in the Quran or Hadith this is mentioned.

:jazak:

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

If you stop being aloof and mingle with Shia , or Ahamdi , or a Hindu , or a Sikh , or a Christian you will come to know a real nice person behind their beliefs. If you have questions and doubts you can ask them , but still be respectful to their beliefs.
Someone might say but we have the duty for stopping the bad and order the good as per Quran. Yes you do but Shia matam is not bad for you or for them , why then stopping it became your responsibility ?
Why am I so open to followers of fiqh a Jaffaria ?

Here is the answer.
I grew up in a majorly sunni neighbor hood of Karachi with lot of prejudices and lot of skepticism against Shia beliefs and practices.
Then fate had it that during my teen years my family moved to a neighborhood with Shia majority. I had the chance to mingle with and ask questions and got better understanding of their beliefs and practices. Even now in US twoi of my best friends are Shia.
I can tell you that most of the time people in that shia neighborhood would automatically assume me to be a shia , but I never heard a single negative word against sunnies by them , even by accident. The situation was different when I used to live in a sunni neighborhood.
That one fact created this respect in my heart and mind for my Shia brethren and sisters.

Disclaimer: I am what you call follower of Sunni fiqh.

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Narrated 'Abdullah: the Prophet said, "He who slaps his cheeks, tears his clothes and follows the ways and traditions of the Days of Ignorance is not one of us."

shias typically derive rulings such as fulan ran over burning tents so it is ok for them to continue their zorastarian practice. the marjas have complete control and they'll rule according to what history they have been told or read leading ultimately back to their own desires. obviously i have no problems with someone loyal to oldpersian culture but they rebranded as shia islam, which is problematic very much since we have obligations to islam

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Allama Iqbal answers this beautifully when he says:

Apna koi marta hey tou rotay ho tarap ker
Per Sibt-e-Payamber ka kabhi gham nahi kertay
Himmat hey tou mehshar mein Payamber se ye kehna
Hum zinda-o-javed ka matam nahi kertay
Aansu na bahao kay ye zaib hey tum ko
Qatil kabhi maqtool ka matam nahi kertay

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

watch the video of a young Shia scholar answering the question very nicely here…http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150416080833277

reference of one of the hadiths he has used is as following…

ان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قبض وهو في حجري ثم وضعت رأسه على وسادة وقمت ألتدم مع النساء واضرب وجهي
Allah’s Apostle died in my lap. I then placed his head on a pillow AND STARTED DOING ILTIDAM with the other women AND I BEAT MY FACE.

Reference: Recorded by Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, vol. 6, p. 274, Number 26391. Rated ‘sound’ by Sheikh Albani.

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

:hmmm:

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

I grew up in a Shia majority area in Karachi too, block # 20 of F.B. Area. It was great. :)

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

To OP, Shias do azaadari so people like yourself can come and ask why we do azaddari.
We tell you we try to remember Imam Hussain a.s and his ahleybait a.s and what how they were killed in Karbala and what happened afterwards. Who is responsible for this.
Then you come up with questions like, why do use a.s for Imam Hussain a.s and not r.a and why do we curse Yazid and his Father and grand father and we answers those questions. infact you keep coming up with questions and we keep answering you.
As conclusion you find out as much about ahleybait a.s as u wish. It also keeps taking masks of enemies of ahleybait a.s. Thanks to Bibi Zainab who gave us gift of azadaari :).

u asked for something from Quran/hadith. i didnt go through whole thread but m pretty sure somone (Paglu, nussehri, jafferi e.t.c) already put the references here, if not you can ask me.

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

And isn’t that the purpose of a discussion forum? Why get so defensive? I don’t see nadz making fun of any shaia beliefs and I don’t think there was any hidden sarcasm in her question either then why the need to reiterate how shias are good people and how they’re not causing any harm to anyone else and whatnot? Does posing a question to the shia brethren automatically mean we’re dissing them?

I understand some questions may be of sensitive nature but we have dealt with hundreds of them on GS regarding Islam in general. Unless someone clearly has some malicious agenda, let their questions not irritate us so much. :flowers:

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

how on the earth did u read my post and thought i was getting defensive ? i never thought she was making fun of anyones beleif, and i dont see any hidden sarcasm... when did i try to impose shias are good and rest are bad ? i never thought she was dissing any one ..... this isnt a sensitive question, i wud be offended when someone says both parties were right in karbala or safeen or nahrwaan.
I was just telling her purpose of Azadaari. Please read carefully.

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Look at some of the posts in this thread. No need to name names. Nothing is qrong with Nadz post, but for God’s sake the least the mods can do in this subforum is delete some of the offensive posts. Do I really look like a Zoroastrian to you?

Every year these threads pop up - and the people cannot have a civil discussion without name-calling or accusations.

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

This is a common trait among Arab women to this day that they beat their cheeks and chest on hearing very unpleasant and unbearable news.

This is very instantaneous and natural human reaction.

The important point is this, that this action or reaction was for that very occasion and was never repeated again in ritual ceremony.

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

jafri the link between your matam practices and those zorastarian practices really freaked me out. the allegation is there for you to deny, just say it was a coincidence that persian zorastarians believed as persian shiaism believe on this particular subject (and a few others :))

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/371098-khutba-of-zainab-alis-daughter-in-yazids-court.html

This khutbah is recorded by Abu Tahir Tayfur al-Baghdadi, a prolific ninth century historian, in one of his books “Balaghatun Nisa”.

Abu Tahir was the first person to write a history of Baghdad. There is a book on him by Shawkat Toorawa.

“Ibn Abī Ṭāhir Ṭayfūr and Arabic writerly culture: a ninth-century bookman in Baghdad”

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

whats a ninth century historian doing being a hujjat for you, when you follow infallible divine imams!

also answer the critical question (as asked by maverick_27 )

by the way what Hazrat ali bin hussain (zainul abidin) was doing that hazrat zainab had to talk.?

in our religion (islam) Allah SWT sent forces which you saw not, and aided the muslims. made successful his Messenger SAW but in your religion the imams were disgraced from one pillar to another thats after shias have applied their storytelling wands.

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

Agreed. But the posts I’m referring to are directed at the OP and I didn’t see what was that wrong with Nadz’s question. Anyway, I appreciate the thorough responses, everyone. :k:

Re: Why do Shias beat upon themselves on 9/10 muharram

not actually authenticated by anyone

even shias usually quote this with the addition of ''Shaykh al-Arnaut says: Its chain is hasan on account of Ibn Ishaq"