Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
You can take your science schience and shove it. Everyone knows that us pakistanis are more related to central asians. Our ethnicity, culture, religion, cuisine and architecture. All central asian.
Aakhir jis madrasemne tumhari parahi hui hain, wahan science kahanse sikhonge?
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
unke lie science zyada bahut mushkil hai
for some people history is even so difficult, they can not separate facts that are distincts in time of many centuries :halo:, for exemple decline of Indu valley civilisation and muslims fisrt invasions
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
Indeed the Aryans invaded or migrated to the Indus Valley but there is NO proof of Harappans being Dravidians nor that they were displaced!
Articles of interest:
Harappans were not Dravidian nor Aryan: http://www.harappa.com/script/dani0.html
Religion of Harappans and Aryans:
Kenneth Kennedy examined 300 skeletons from the Indus Valley Civilization and concluded: “Ancient Harappans are not markedly different in their skeletal biology from the present-day inhabitants of Pakistan and Northwestern India”. He further states, “Analysing the skeletons of Aryans from Timargarha their biological features of cranial and dental anatomy were not distinct to a marked degree from what we encountered in the ancient Harappans.” The whole report can be found on: “A Reassessment of the Theories of Racial Origins of the People of the Indus Valley Civilization from Recent Anthropological Data (by Kennedy, Kenneth 1984). These findings are similar in the genetic studies published in American Journal of Physical Anthropology under “The Bronze-Age Harappans: A re-examination of the skulls”.
Brauhis are not to be confused with Negroid Makranis. Brauhis are racially very similar to their neighboring Caucasoid Baluchs/etc. Due to long-term extreme exposure to sunlight, the skin color tends to become darker as a natural protection against harmful sun rays, and this can be found in Caucasoid people living in hot desert regions, but their physical features/skeletal structure defines their race (Caucasoids are found in many different shades depending on the region). Genetic studies have proven that Brauhis are mostly Caucasoid according to the American Society of Human Genetics and published in a journal by Universtity of Chicago. Check out the genetic map/pie-chart for “BR” (Brauhis):
It does not matter what religion/country Romila Thapar belongs to because she is respected worldwide as an excellent historian/archeologist. By the way she is a progressive liberal and is being chewed in India by Hindu fundamentalists. The number of skulls she analyzed does make it scientifically valid. And many other archeologists agree with Romila, according to Peter Myers: “From the skeletal remains so far examined it appears that many of the Harappans were people of the long-headed, narrow-nosed, slender Mediterranean type, found all over the ancient Middle East and in Egypt, and forming an important element of the South Asian population at the present day. A second element was the Proto-Australoid, with flat nose and thick lips, related to the Australian aborigines and to some of the wild hill-tribes of modern India. Others found were of Mongolian type, and of the short-headed Alpine type.”
Pakistanis have every thing to do with Indus Valley Civilization and I have proven that with facts. More and more Pakistanis are taking pride in their Harappan heritage: Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos Harappans were a “cradle of civilization” at a time when Arabs were nothing more than barbaric nomads.
And you chose to ignore the fact I mentioned that Iranian “Aryans” have been mixed with Greeks, Arabs, Turks, Mongols, and others through out the centuries… just proving my point (Elamite heritage) that Iranians do have partial ancestory from non-Aryans as well.
First of all I never said that Greeks and Turks are the “same” people. They are distinct from each other however they both do share some heritage. Plus Anatolia’s own ancient history is unique such as the Anatolian “Hittites” who were distinct from the Greeks. Again, tell me whatever happened to the millions of native Anatolians when the Turks invaded, did they just vanish into some blackhole or were they massacred at such a large scale? If a few thousand Spaniards can conquer much of the Americas and Latinize the millions of Amerindians, how difficult could it had been for the Turks to invade Anatolia and Turkicize the millions of native Anatolians? It is a known fact that Seljuk-Ottoman Turks invaded Anatolia numerically only in the thousands.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
Certainly they know more science than what you elarnt in some freaky rat infested ashram 
Anyway, interesting discussion folks. The fact is that when you mix up Pakistanis and Indians, I can easily tell ya which one is which based upon the physical features.
And I must add that this Dinasaur dude with his archaic viewpoints is indeed a dinasaur on this forum. It won’t take long for him to get extinct, too 
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
after nuclear bombimg on japan, scientists realised the only animal to survive was an insect (cockroach:blush:) that existed far before dinosaurs and will survive far after humans:D
don’t get too proud of yourself and your ability to survive, the strongest is not allways the more modern:halo:
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
And I must add that this Dinasaur dude with his archaic viewpoints is indeed a dinasaur on this forum. It won't take long for him to get extinct, too :D
Had I said, Pakistanis are tall, handsome, and white whereas Indians dark and ugly-looking, so the two are different, you would've declared my viewpoint logical.
And only those will survive who are realistic, rational, and can face the truth.
You can gauge irrationality from the fact that in some history books authored in Pakistan, it is written that "angels" aided Pakistan to defeat India in 1965. Now even Baluchis, an underdeveloped community, wouldn't ascribe their loss and victory in wars to divine support or punishment but...:D
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
Who said Pakistanis are less prone to racism? No. We are as racist as any White Supremist redneck.
Syed Abdullah proves it here. He proclaims to belong to the family of the Prophet, while his racist views are exactly opposite of the teachings of Islam.
And by the way so-called ‘Syed’-sahab, most dark-skinned Pakistanis are Punjabis, Sindhis and Makranis.
As far as muhajirs are concerned, they come in all shades, like many other Pakistani communities.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
So-called Pakistan4ever:
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Indeed the Aryans invaded or migrated to the Indus Valley but there is NO proof of Harappans being Dravidians nor that they were displaced!
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The clear proof of Harappans being dark-skinned Dravidians is the brown complexion of North Indians, including Punjabis and Sindhis.
A pure Dravidian use to be as black as an African. And Aryan people (Persians etc.) who came from western areas were as white as Europeans. These two communities mixed together, and now their descendants, North Indians, Punjabis and Sindhis use to have different shades even within one family. It's because they have mixed genes of Aryans and Dravidians. Their color today is like the color of an American born of a marriage between a black African and a White European.
You give a SINGLE link of Dani to disprove that Harappans were not Dravidians. But Dani himself does not give any prove that Harappans were white and not black Dravidians.
Besides, this view of Dani is not shared by any scholar of Harappan people. His view is based on racism alone. While it is not possible to give an absolute proof of the descent of Harappan people, there are more reasons to conclude that they were black Dravidians.
I myself argue a lot with Bharatis over their attempts to hijack Harappan Civilization as their own, and also to declare their religion (even language) to be Hindu; but I also would not use the racist black/white argument to try to belittle anyone including Bharatis.
If being "fairer than thou" is the argument some Pakistanis would against Bharatis to prove their superiority then they should right away accept the racial superiority of Persians, Turks, Syrians and Europeans over Pakistanis.
This blatant naked racism is clearly visible in Pakistani universities. Here, Pakistanis use to be dying to forge friendships with Arab people, while completely ignoring other Muslim students from Africa (like Somalia). So much for the Muslim Ummah concept.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
prince abbas: :k: shabash
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
Prince Abbas,
Ahmad Hasan Dani is a world renowned and respected historian/archeologist. His views are purely based on facts!
Why are you confusing the Dravidian "linguistic" identity with the "Dravidoid /Australoid /Sudroid race"?
The race of the Harappans is known and they were a multi-racial people based on genetic/skeletal analysis.
The linguistic identity of the Harappans remains unknown since the Indus script is undeciphered.
Try reading my previous posts as responses to SyedAbduallah again and you will see all the references/answers with facts! Also read my post on race in the 'Gujars' thread.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
I will reply in detail later. But right now only this:
P4ever:
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The race of the Harappans is known and they were a multi-racial people based on genetic/skeletal analysis.
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Source/link please.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
Thanks.
These guys here need to be given some dose of reality. I hope I can spend enough time on them.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
So Pakistans are mostly Caucausians where as Indians are Black-Australians?
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
No we are marsians.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
I am just joking around about the whole skin thing.
We are all God's creatures and must respect one another
But its not just India thats obsessed with fair skin, philippines, indonesia and other countries below China are also obsessed with fair skin
And chinese are getting surgeries to make their eyes bigger
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
beauty!! fair skin is pretty:blush:…big eyes too;) between people die their hair too or wear colored lenses, get thiner nose or bigger breast with surgery…it’s all about beauty!
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
And by the way so-called 'Syed'-sahab, most dark-skinned Pakistanis are Punjabis, Sindhis and Makranis.
As far as muhajirs are concerned, they come in all shades, like many other Pakistani communities.
WHat is so racist about what Syed Abdullah said? What he said might not be politically correct but it's true.
It's no different from a persian saying "the darkest persians are descendants of african slaves"
Still, I disagree. The darkest pakistanis are the Bangladeshi refugees in Karachi, the Makranis in the southern coast and the descendants of low caste hindus who converted to either christianity or Islam. The latter live mostly in Karachi too.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
The clear proof of Harappans being dark-skinned Dravidians is the brown complexion of North Indians, including Punjabis and Sindhis.
NO hunny. A dark complexion can be attributed to the scorching sun in the plains of Punjab and Sindh. The Punjabis are an Indo-Aryan group not a dravidian group. Punjabis are predominantly nordindid which makes their skulls longer and more similar to the skulls of irano-afghans rather than the shorter broader headed dravidians. They have iranid influence and a minority are graci-indids and have very slight Indobrachid/Melanid/Weddid admixture.
Dravidians are mostly Indobrachid/Melanid/Weddid and sometimes a little gracil-indid.
[quote]
A pure Dravidian use to be as black as an African. And Aryan people (Persians etc.) who came from western areas were as white as Europeans. These two communities mixed together, and now their descendants, North Indians, Punjabis and Sindhis use to have different shades even within one family. It's because they have mixed genes of Aryans and Dravidians. Their color today is like the color of an American born of a marriage between a black African and a White European.
[/quote]
Africans are not all black and there are tons of people in South India who have skin color that is very similar to Africans.
The Aryans didn't necessarily come from Europe. HIstorically, Aryans according to Iranian literature were olive or white skinned with black hair and sometimes light eyes(but mostly dark). There have been theories that Aryans came from Central Asia rather than Eastern Europe.
An American born with a pure african father and a white european mother is most likely going to be a dark brown color. Most punjabis aren't dark brown.
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You give a SINGLE link of Dani to disprove that Harappans were not Dravidians. But Dani himself does not give any prove that Harappans were white and not black Dravidians.
Besides, this view of Dani is not shared by any scholar of Harappan people. His view is based on racism alone. While it is not possible to give an absolute proof of the descent of Harappan people, there are more reasons to conclude that they were black Dravidians.
[/quote]
Even if Harappans were black dravidians there is only one community in Pakistan that is of dravidian ancestry: The brahuis. Besides the 1million strong community of Brahuis that reside in Baluchistan, most dravidians were pushed down to peninsular India.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
if it werent for indians maybe we'd be more open to our indian heritage. tum logon ka qusoor hai.
Re: Why Do Pakistanis Reject their Indian heritage?
:k: I totally agree with you.. Pakistanis are mostly mixture of different white races with invading Turks, Iranians and Arabs. We are very different than dark-skinned short Indians.. Except for Punjab area of India which slightly fair (not as fair as west Punjabis) entire India is dark and ugly looking. We are more white than any other people in South Asia. Only Mohajirs in Pakistan are dark-skinned in Pakistan cuz they migrated from India to Pakistan in 1947.