Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
Looks like circular logic has won the day.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
Non religious people tend to rely on science to back them up & science is based on empirical evidence. For example, in most cases someone comes with theory & theory gets tested & peer reviewed (there is rigorous process is involved). Can the religious people back up the existence of God/gods/afterlife/judgment day, etc. & back it up using science?
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
tell me if science has proved non-existence of God?
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
The science hasn’t proven existence of unicorn, big foot, Santa Claus or tooth fairy. Does that means science is not valid?
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
why can’t this validity logic be applied for faith?
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
Science has NOT Proven the NON existence of unicorn, tooth fairy, Santa claus, God and faith. I don’t believe ANYONE says otherwise.
So what exactly is the debate about?
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
Ones theory / ideology for existence without proof is foolishness and others theory for non-existence without proof doesn’t invalidate that theory / ideology. This says a lot about the attitude of those who religiously follow empirical evidence.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
Someone cannot prove non existence of God. That someone needs proffer of existence to believe. Logical.
someone believes in existence of God. Through their own faith. That is good. More power to them.
But they want to institute laws based on their faith. Illogical, irrational and unsustainable. Typically this group is also known to engage in false equivalency.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
I attended a lecture last night on this very subject that was given by Ustadh Nasser Karimian from Bayinnah Institute. The premise of his talk was geared towards the Muslim born youth of today, who struggle with explaining religion or Islam to atheists and in turn question the beliefs they are taught. His lecture was based on the Kalam Cosmological Argument. I had never heard of this before, and he gave us some links to read up further on it, as his time to speak was limited. When I got home, I did some Wiki’ing and google’ing and here are the explanations I found. (in reference to the existence of God)
- Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;
- The universe has a beginning of its existence Therefore:
- The universe has a cause of its existence
Argument based on the impossibility of an actual infinite
- An actual infinite cannot exist.
- An infinite temporal regress of events is an actual infinite.
- Therefore, an infinite temporal regress of events cannot exist.
Argument based on the impossibility of the formation of an actual infinite by successive addition
- A collection formed by successive addition cannot be an actual infinite.
- The temporal series of past events is a collection formed by successive addition.
- Therefore, the temporal series of past events cannot be actually infinite.
It’s a pretty complex subject to be sure, I’m looking forward to reading about this more.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
Contents of this thread might actually answer the question in OP. 
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
This thread is not about sharia law or something related to that. Thats a different topic and we have already agreed to disagree on that point with the consensus that no system can give absolute guarantee for solution of all problems human-beings face.
Human knowledge is limited and has been limited since unknown time. People knew new things, invented measures to prove existence of something over the period of centuries. What is known today was unknown few decades back. So, human-being were/ are not in position to claim all knowledgeable. With this deficiency, they should learn to be patient and avoid this attitude of asking for empirical evidence even for matters related to faith.
I can’t talk about other religions due to my limited knowledge, but a little knowledge I have for Islam, its prophet or Allah’s book never claimed it to be book for proving scientific evidence of God. It denied miracles when people of Makka demanded to accept the message on the context that miracles (read as empirical evidence) were shown to earlier nations, but that doesn’t made them follow the message. There is concepts of Mutashabihaat (unclear / not certain) and Muhakamaat (definite / certain) about Quran’s verses. Most of the matters related to creation and process for life after hereafter are still Mutashabihaat meaning there is no evidence provided. But with the passage of time, certain Mutashabihaat converted into Muhakamaat after human-beings gained knowledge (which is encouraged in Islam).
To cut it in short, Islam itself encourage to inquire, research to reach the truth. But till the time, human knowledge is limited and unable to prove certain phenomenon or denial to certain beliefs, the attitude of labeling religious people as foolish (with low IQ) is unwarranted IMO.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
You know why some people use scientific arguments to back religious belief? because non-religious ask for.
the contents of this thread and another thread in this forum proves that attitude of nonreligious people.
so dont be apologetic.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
There is absolutely no problems with using scientific, logical or rational arguments to back religious beliefs. Post #71 is a good example. You can always make rational arguments. There was a series of programs on TV where Ghamidi sb argues well for existence of God in the context of scientific knowledge that we have. *.
I don’t have a problem with anyone believing in anything. It is just amusing when for example ‘religious’ people turn around and ask for evidence for ‘non existence of God’. It is such behavior that results in the title of this thread.*
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
I agree with this to great extent, but its also somehow crept into religious circles. The notion that Scriptures explains everything, sometimes fire back. People (both religious and non-religious) need to be taught that science and faith are two different aspects and they have to research and inquire to know the truth.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
Respectfully, I really don’t track what we have agreed to disagree upon and when. You appeared to have missed the entire point of this thread. This thread is NOT about bashing ANY religion. I personally respect ALL faiths. So you are preaching to the choir when you give the good points of Islam (or any other religion).
Per my understanding, this thread is about the OVERBEARING and OUTWARDLY pious religious folks. Who get in your face. And tell you whatever you are doing is wrong. And there is a place reserved in hell for you.
Such folks have rightly been characterized as not being truly religious. And I chose to provide some examples of what a SUBSET of such people would try to impose.
The use of the specific term Shariah law was your choice. From my POV ANY ATTEMPT to impose religious laws are misguide. Be that attempt from Hindu RSS, Christian Fundamentalists or other religions.
In a debate, bringing up related topics for discussion is not only OK, but actually healthy. It provides a holistic picture.
But far be it for me to go against your wishes. Please delete any portions of my response that you deem “out of topic” or those that “we have agreed to disagree upon”.
Cheers!
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
No. I’m sorry, you are in wrong thread.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
You are indeed correct! So many related threads.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
You probably mixed this with Shamraz’s thread, as hilighted portion of your post (in quote) suggest. This is about other side of the picture.
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
To add, here is proof religious folks ARE intelligent. You picked that line out in a micro second. Well done. (No sarcasm here.)
Re: Why do non-religious people think that religious people live in fool’s paradise?
I had edited my post soon after I wrote it. You are correct.