Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
To get God's blessings
God who? - The same God who said in Surah Al Hijr Ayat 74
And We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay.
And Ayat no 77
Behold! in this is a sign for those who believed.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
I fail to understand why a religion that's historically known to have liberated the oppressed is now seen as one that oppresses. Islam hasn't changed, we have. The Quran isn't corrupted, we are.
The fact that 1.5 billion followers and the rest of the world can't seem to understand and agree upon the only revealed scripture that hasn't been corrupted to date really goes to show we aren't any smarter than our creator.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
Well you get sinned , once you commit it - get my drift ?
If you arent doing it - end of the story !
Allah, the most merciful, most forgiving?
God who? - The same God who said in Surah Al Hijr Ayat 74
And We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay.
And Ayat no 77
Behold! in this is a sign for those who believed.
yup. imagine a homosexual's pain ... he still wants His love. how important is He that though he fails to live upto His expectations, is tempted time and time again to sin, but still wants His acceptance .. like everyone else.
i am not making up a hollow debate here. i am talking with experience of someone very close to me.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
Allah, the most merciful, most forgiving?
yup. imagine a homosexual's pain ... he still wants His love. how important is He that though he fails to live upto His expectations, is tempted time and time again to sin, but still wants His acceptance .. like everyone else.
i am not making up a hollow debate here. i am talking with experience of someone very close to me.
Yes Indeed the Most merciful and most forgiving - but these arent his only traits .
He is Al-Samad (الصمد) The Satisfier of All Needs - so will he not going to satisfy all your Halal needs ?
Isn't he Al-Qadir (القادر) The All Powerful - Powerful enough to change you if you are willing to change yourself for his acceptance
isn't he Al-Wali (الوالي) The Protecting Friend - who will protect you - if you ask for his protection .
isn't he Al-Tawwab (التواب) The Guide to Repentance - if you ask him to guide you
We all talk about how merciful he is but we forget that he alsocalls himself Al-Muntaqim (المنتقم) The Avenger - Al-Qahhar (القهار) The Subduer and Al-Jabbar (الجبار) The Compeller ...
People looking for his mercy , shouldn't call his Qahhar upon themselves but disobeying him and not considering his clear commandants
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
yup. imagine a homosexual's pain ... he still wants His love. how important is He that though he fails to live upto His expectations, is tempted time and time again to sin, but still wants His acceptance .. like everyone else. i am not making up a hollow debate here. i am talking with experience of someone very close to me.
well story of every muslim's life isn't it? We all have our temptations, they vary for everyone but at the end it's all about fighting against them, and if you sin in the process you just pick yourself up and try again. That is what being a muslim is all about IMO.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
^ Exactly.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
those that are against homosexuals and them having religious ceremonies
would you participate in them being stoned to death or watch them be beheaded, burned alive,whipped to death or any such execution ordered by sharia law if you lived in a country like say Iran where close to a 100 lesbians/gays were executed according to what i had read a while back
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
well story of every muslim's life isn't it? We all have our temptations, they vary for everyone but at the end it's all about fighting against them, and if you sin in the process you just pick yourself up and try again. That is what being a muslim is all about IMO.
totally agree...^
if anyone is religious he follows the will of Allah,god,bagwaan ....so he doesnt follow free will and adheres to his holy book which strictly forbids same sex marriages..It is a sin regardless of how much pain the person is in or how helpful,sweet natured they are...
May Allah guide us all onto the right path......ameen
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
since they can't help being homosexuals and are going against Allah's will by being homosexuals, i need an answer to my above comment please.........
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
Consider the source.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
those that are against homosexuals and them having religious ceremonies
would you participate in them being stoned to death or watch them be beheaded, burned alive,whipped to death or any such execution ordered by sharia law if you lived in a country like say Iran where close to a 100 lesbians/gays were executed according to what i had read a while back
No, because being a homosexual is not a sin in itself, and it is unlikely that 4 witnesses saw the person indulge in homosexual intercourse.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
No, because being a homosexual is not a sin in itself, and it is unlikely that 4 witnesses saw the person indulge in homosexual intercourse.
you are avoiding the question by saying that it is unlikely but if lesbians/gays were executed under sharia law in Iran in the past then obviously there were 4 witnesses and that is what the case was in one situation they were found at a party expressing themselves as gays. and if homosexual muslims did go through with the religious ceremony with 100s of witnesses,family and friends, gotten God's blessings for marrying their Significant Other, would you then participate in their sharia ordered punishment of stoning to death, burning alive, whipping, or beheading.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
you are avoiding the question by saying that it is unlikely but if lesbians/gays were executed under sharia law in Iran in the past then obviously there were 4 witnesses and that is what the case was in one situation they were found at a party expressing themselves as gays. and if homosexual muslims did go through with the religious ceremony with 100s of witnesses,family and friends, gotten God's blessings for marrying their Significant Other, would you then participate in their sharia ordered punishment of stoning to death, burning alive, whipping, or beheading.
For heavens sake Nisha, what answer do you want? Not every muslim is the same, no 1 muslim answers on behalf of all of the ummah. I thought you may know that at least. I personally don't think it's our 'right' to kill gays, but many muslims will. Islam is the least dogmatic religion, when you understand what that means you wont have so many futile questions.
Nowhere in the Quran does it state that the punishment for sodomy is death.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
i couldn’t agree more. everyone tries to do their best according to their own more or less knowledge. and everyone sins. so why pinpoint these folks especially. they love God as much anyone else. but we are so adamant on throwing a good number of people in a loveless life … fine. but correct me if i’m wrong … chaste women for chaste men. isn’t this also in the Quran? then how dare the unchaste men bind their union in front of God with a chaste woman … something that is becoming more and more common! (and vice versa)
and @Naabigh … yes God is a lot more than just being merciful … but why are you rejecting that humans are still humans … and all they can do is try … and failure along the way is possible … and then try again.
looking at the law with one eye. if people are so persistent upon shunning homosexuality, then they should be strong enough to follow the “sazaa” part of the law as well. but baat itni si hai … jub khudd per ati hai, ya apnay kisi aziz per ati hai … to log forun badal jatay hain … talking about a third, fourth, fifth person with a book open is very easy.
it is really a difficult situation to be in … i shudder at the mere thought of being in it. people saying “oh i’ll find a more rewarding activity” … very easily said. i dont approve of the act of homosexuality either. but i CANNOT not have a heart enough towards the situation and give these people the benefit of the doubt that they are trying and fighting against themselves … and ultimately let God decide .. and not me. and those expecting a miracle of a real homo going straight after praying five times a day … 
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
of course i am not a scholar in the matter. my only debate here is … let it be between them and God.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
For some reason it wont let me view the video.
Do you need to be a scholar to read the Quran and deduce that a man can have 4 wives? No. There is nothing ambiguous about that particular verse. Just like there is nothing ambiguous about the punishments for fornicators, adulterers and sodomites. The punishments are clearly stated and non of them include death.
I’m out of this now, theres just no point in posting anymore. Nisha is acting dumber then what she really is and I feel she has different agenda.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
^some facts dont need one to be a scholar, while others do .. therefore we need more learned people sometimes to help us better understand .. i dont wish to continue this debate either .. we can end this by agreeing to disagree :)
.. but just to point this out ... there is a difference of opinion between scholars of the punishment given to an adulteress.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
I would like to add just a little in terms of punishments,
Perhaps even if the holy scriptures do not expressly allow the killign of a soddomite, they certianly say that one should do all in ones power to stop such evil from spreading, therefore judicail execution has been a historically favoured method becuase it is one of the best forms of deterent punishment and that is the chief argument by scholars.
Here is my own view on the matter technically Farah is right when she says it's between them and thier lord what is sin and not, but some sinners do lead many astray and often make such outlandish features of thier sin that they try to force others by various ways to be like themselves.... in those times when must do what one thinks is best and if the best way to stop it is to kill the cause then so be it... As long as they keep it between them and God fine... but a lot do not for example the sodomite Saudi Prince that has got off the hook for his crime lately somone like that deserves to be beaten to death slowly... in my opinion.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
.. but just to point this out ... there is a difference of opinion between scholars of the punishment given to an adulteress.
To be honest I don't care about what different scholars think, I care about what God states, on the day of judgement no scholar can protect me from the hell-fire.
I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I don't understand what we disagree about, I don't want gays killed and even though my interpretation of Islam will never allow me to recognise a same sex nikkah, I'm more than happy to leave God to deal with them.
Re: Why do gay people want religious ceremonies?
same-sex marriages and civil unions are not legally recognized in iran but homosexuality is legal if accompanied by a sex change operation. so basically transsexuality in iran is legal.