Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
u dont have to be an expert in the field in order to be a witness. many passengers in airline accidents are used as witnesses in investigations and questioned about the flight b4 it crashed, theyre not pilots, but they can give u the basic info
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
^ Thank God!
I think they're arguing with the point that the ayah is specific to financial matters. It could possibly translate into today's Enron case (something requiring some specialized knowledge of how a financial company works) or a case of someone swindling another person on the street (which probably doesn't take that much education to serve as a witness).
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
So what about if the male witness is not qualified to give a testimony in a financial case? Like, can a male student studying sociology be allowed to testify alone on a stock broker scandal? Or do we need two guys?
No.
I am waiting for the time when you will stop arguing just for the sake of arguing.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Uh, actually, I'm arguing because women's rights and abuse of Islam and is a matter very dear to my heart. :)
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
u dont have to be an expert in the field in order to be a witness. many passengers in airline accidents are used as witnesses in investigations and questioned about the flight b4 it crashed, theyre not pilots, but they can give u the basic info
Absolutely wrong line of argument.
A witness in that situation will be asked the question of only what the witness is capable of.
A pilot on the other hand will be asked appropriate questiond for his level of responsibilities in Islamic society.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Uh, actually, I'm arguing because women's rights and abuse of Islam and is a matter very dear to my heart. :)
I am very much in favour of women's right and their responsibilities.
I also dislike men who cross the boundarie which are set by islamic laws. Those men should be harshly punished as well.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Absolutely wrong line of argument.
A witness in that situation will be asked the question of only what the witness is capable of.
A pilot on the other hand will be asked appropriate questiond for his level of responsibilities in Islamic society.
but they still qualify as a witness dont they? that was my point :)
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
I am very much in favour of women's right and their responsibilities.
I also dislike men who cross the boundarie which are set by islamic laws. Those men should be harshly punished as well.
agree 100% with u on that one
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
but they still qualify as a wintess dont they? that was my point :)
I see no reason that they will not be considered as witness if mentally and physically or educationally capable in terms of being a credible witness. This is not against Islam as far as I understand. If only one woman was available who otherwise is able to give witness (credible witness) , her witness cannot be disregarded by any means.
I do not think that 'suggestion' of having another woman lest the first woman forgets should be considered as rule of law.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
agree 100% with u on that one
Thank you.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
women are emotional as they start weeping over minor issues while men "generally" not.....the emotional characteristics of women over men is a world known fact...why we are fighting over that...is being emotional is some bad thing that we are so much touchy about that ....
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
But just as a joke, aside from the topic;
All problems of woMEN start with MEN...........
MENstruation
MENarche
MENses
MENopause
even the word woMEN ends with MEN.............!!!!!!!!!:)
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
great.....your knowledge....kamal hai bhai ..
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
No, I'm saying that you can't use some epidemiological differences to justify that one sex is more inferior than the other. My point is precisely to say that men ARE NOT more stupid memory-wise, just because they are more prone to Alzheimer's. Just like women ARE NOT more stupid memory-wise, because they're prone to show more emotion than men.
1) Men and women are generally equal memory-wise.
2) Women are better than men at remembering emotional things. This means their emotional memory is better .
3) but When women are in an emotional situation they cannot recall things very well.
4) but men can. Because they're better at controlling emotions.
(and these are psychological facts)
[who told you that men are more prone to Alzheimer Disease]
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
^ i agree with your 4 points ....
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Uh, actually, I'm arguing because** women's rights** and abuse of Islam and is a matter very dear to my heart. :)
No, you're only arguing to support your ego.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
To All:
Here is verse we have all been arguing about. Dr. Zakir Naiks explanation does not even come remotely close to what the verse is about:
[quote]
002.282
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.
[/quote]
The verse is about witnessing a contract of debt. We have been discussing totally on tangents.
So if someone is lending someone or someone is accepting a liability then the verse simply explains how do draw up a contract. Pay attention to the part emboldened. The witnesses are of your choosing so all these arguments about emotion are out of the window. And it mentions if the liable party is mentally deficient and cannot dictate a contract then they need witnesses (why would that be so that they are not cheated on it).
Now can we throw out all the emotional hogwash ....
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Salam USR, how are you long time for both of us.
I wonder did any one read the whole verse, I read it the other day but good you brought it up. For someone who doesnt know the complete history of this verse.
1)Longest verse in the holy Quran.
2) The last verse to be revealed atleast the first part.
I feel the verse makes complete sense, and its horses sense but the whole part is going ga-ga over it. This is where I accentuate on the fact, we need Arabic to be learnt. Now here is the verse, please concentrate on the bold part. The rest is left to you and please everyone gets the drift and the part one was explained by USR.
Now part two about online transaction also can be taken into picture and on if its an on spot transaction.
*
[QUOTE]
002.282YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves
**
[QUOTE]
but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing.
[/QUOTE]
**
On spot transaction.
[QUOTE]
But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm
[/QUOTE]
.
Wonderful verse.
If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.
[/QUOTE]
*
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Now someone in the particular thread went on to say he is rationalistic, does not follow blind belief. Well I wanna know how rationalistic anyone can get and find answer for this one.
This is a stupid trick, but definitely points out towards your IQ level as muslims are considered to be with a big zero IQ level.
Who came first the chicken or the egg and please prove.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Salam USR, how are you long time for both of us.
W salam, hey nice to hear from you. Yup its been long for both of us. Work had been keeping me very busy. So howz life?