Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Perhaps it is a mercy for her, so that she does not take full burden.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
I am not going to test your belief system or pretend you can 'grade' my belief system. You seem pretty well grounded in yours as I am in mine. Suffice to say religion is a belief. Subjective. Philosophical in nature. It is not a science like mathematics. If you were to say otherwise in a science exam, you would be marked wrong. Just as the generalizations you make about men and women would be marked wrong in a behavorial psychology exam.
I'm not saying your beliefs are 'wrong', unless you were to say it is the ONLY way. I believe there are many paths to God. Some need billions of others who follow their belief system in order to feel as if they are following the correct path. I don't.
Peace Seminole
I hope you don't classify philosophy as subjective. It's like saying the theory of evolution is a science. Sciences are only sciences because they are objective. The belief system is indeed something that science cannot fathom. However, to be a true religion it cannot contradict what is objective by principle.
There is a framework (a science) based on philosophy which is the same framework for religion. If this very basic of frameworks is compromised then there is a problem. That is all I am saying here. You are grilling me for generalizations when it is you who are making them.
Islam is the most 'scientific' of all the religions. I say this because we have testable evidence. The Qur'an itself answers the questions thrown at it, and there are scientific accuracies within the Qur'an. The premise of the Qur'an proving it's OWN validity (not me) is when it says that 'had it been from other than Allah (SWT) therein would be much discrepency'. This is a falsification test.
The Qur'an stands it ground since time.
You say you believe there are many paths to God. I have no opinion regarding this matter. I am not refuting you, nor am I agreeing. But answer me this, how do you know there many paths, why do you believe that?
I, like you, do not need millions of people to follow the same belief system, it appears to be the case that there are millions of people who share the same belief system with me. Why do you think this is? Is it not because Islam makes sense?
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
I think this 2 witness for woman is equivalent for 1 for a man is a man made myth.
Arabs implemented this as a part of Islam when in reality it was not to continue to have a male dominated society.
Similarly with hijab and abaya both are man made creations imposed on women as Islamic but in reality its another way for men to control women.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
I think this 2 witness for woman is equivalent for 1 for a man is a man made myth.
Arabs implemented this as a part of Islam when in reality it was not to continue to have a male dominated society.
Similarly with hijab and abaya both are man made creations imposed on women as Islamic but in reality its another way for men to control women.
Peace mercenary2k
Have you read the translations of the Qur'an?
Sounds as though you have woke up from a nightmare and suddenly made to partake in a conversation ...
please back you claims ...
So far in the few sentences you have written ... I gather you cannot accept what you see unless what you make of it agrees with the norms of your own world.
Hijab is an attitude ... remember that ... if man created that attitude then it was damn good one ... it simply means being 'protecting of oneself' in honour, dignity, and chastity. Khimar is often mistaken as hijab. Abaya? Not worth a comment.
You know why this world will never stop being a male dominated society ... 'cos there are too many women who will not have other women telling them what to do. Look at the facts.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
^^ Please answer this Question:
Before Islam came to Arabia, how were the women dressed and treated?
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
^^ Please answer this Question:
Before Islam came to Arabia, how were the women dressed and treated?
Peace mercenary2k
The Kafir women were dressed the same before as after. Generally speaking they would have their figures (bosoms) noticeable.
Some women had a lot of wealth others did not. However, the males of those societies could buy and sell their mothers and sisters, as it was thought that women are the property of men. If girls were first born they would be buried alive in the sand. Why?
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
its not only because of religon that women in arabia wear abayas its their culture which is conservative by nature
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
its not only because of religon that women in arabia wear abayas its their culture which is conservative by nature
Hijab is islamic.......abaya is cultural. In those days abaya didn't exist....
Abaya or Jilbab were developed to meet the requirements of hijab. Other cultures meet hijab in other ways.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
No, this is obviously a comprehensive list of cultural practices by Muslims that is irrefutable proof there is no link between Arab culture and Islam.
I just listed the cultural practices which Islam abolished and prohibited its promotion.
These are very same cultural practices performed by people who were either Pagans, christians in dark ages and hindus in India.
Muslims and islam both equally condemened these practices and many others alike.
I am curious to know why did you you say "this is obviously a comprehensive list of cultural practices performed by "muslims"??
I bet you will not be able come up with any islamic teaching condoning these practices or Muslims raping or killing women in the name of majic/witchcraft, burying girls alive just beacause they are girls.
Answer specifically and not from your weird 'flight of ideas' about muslims or islam.
I request you to please read and get educated about islam.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Mercenary, when it comes to Hijab, etc, you can still argue your way around it. Because the fact is that the Quranic verses do not ever concretely say that you need to cover your head. The term it uses is "khimar", which is a heavily debated word.
On the other hand, the 2 female witnesses = 1 male witness rule is specific for financial transactions and judgements, and that's specificially and clearly stated in the Quran. There's no haziness in the interpretation of those verses. Which is why it becomes very problematic to reconcile the Islamic concept that males and females on average have equal intelligence and this idea of unequality of witness numbers.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Peace Seminole
You see ... you have it there again ... you follow what you think God wants you to follow. But I don't ... Muslims do what God tells them ... at least that is what we should do.
The difference in your stance and mine is the word 'think' I don't have to ponder over it or internalise or conjure up or imagine an alleged command by God, for me it is WRITTEN in text, completely substantiated and wholly objective. What you think comes from a subjective process unless you can ratify that it doesn't.
And here lies the problem with our muslim community today. Tell me exactly where the Quran tells you not to think?
Ideally, you're believing in a God that is all-knowing and all-benevolent and all-powerful.
Do you think that this same God would give you a brain and then expect you not to use it, ever? Because then you're insulting God's design. Apparently, God's design of a mind is just not good enough to actually use.
The Quran repeatedly tells you to read so that you may understand - verses upon verses telling you that you need to understand religion and the world you live in. Giving you examples upon examples of people living in this world and how they live in it as God's followers.
God wants you to abide by certain rules. But that's not the same thing as saying God doesn't want you to think.
If you're going to believe in something, you had better understand what you're believing in. Because then why not abide by the rules of the Bible, because God is talking through that. Why the Quran? If you weren't born in this religion, you probably wouldn't be muslim. You'd be applying your same reasoning to the religion you'd be born in. Do you understand this concept?
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Mercenary, when it comes to Hijab, etc, you can still argue your way around it. Because the fact is that the Quranic verses do not ever concretely say that you need to cover your head. The term it uses is "khimar", which is a** heavily debated word.** .
Its very simple.........
'Khimar' is a piece of cloth that arab woman used to wear on her head. Khimar word is from khamar which means covering.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Hummmmmmmmm…
Waiting for the answer…
Try not to spread lies about Islam or muslims folks…that’s a big no no…:nono3:
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Question: Why are two witnesses who are women, equivalent to only one witness who is a man? Answer by Dr Zakir Naik: It is not true that two female witnesses are always considered as equal to only one male witness. It is true only in certain cases. There are about five verses in the Qur’an that mention witnesses, without specifying male or female. There is only one verse in the Qur’an, that says two female witnesses are equal to one male witness. This verse is Surah Baqarah, chapter 2 verse 282. This is the longest verse in the Qur’an and deals with financial transactions. It says: “Oh! Ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligation in a fixed period of time reduce them to writing and get two witnesses out of your own men and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses so that if one of them errs the other can remind her.” [Al-Qur’an 2:282]
This verse of the Qur’an deals only with financial transactions. In such cases, it is advised to make an agreement in writing between the parties and take two witnesses, preferably both of which should be men only. In case you cannot find two men, then one man and two women would suffice. For instance, suppose a person wants to undergo an operation for a particular ailment. To confirm the treatment, he would prefer taking references from two qualified surgeons. In case he is unable to find two surgeons, his second option would be one surgeon and two general practitioners who are plain MBBS doctors.
Similarly in financial transactions, two men are preferred. Islam expects men to be the breadwinners of their families. Since financial responsibility is shouldered by men, they are expected to be well versed in financial transactions as compared to women. As a second option, the witness can be one man and two women, so that if one of the women errs the other can remind her. The Arabic word used in the Qur’an is ‘Tazil’ which means ‘confused’ or ‘to err’. Many have wrongly translated this word as ‘to forget’. Thus financial transactions constitute the only case in which two female witnesses are equal to one male witness.
However, some scholars are of the opinion that the feminine attitude can also have an effect on the witness in a murder case. In such circumstances a woman is more terrified as compared to a man. Due to her emotional condition she can get confused. Therefore, according to some jurists, even in cases of murder, two female witnesses are equivalent to one male witness. In all other cases, one female witness is equivalent to one male witness. There are about five verses in the Qur’an which speak about witnesses without specifying man or woman.
While making a will of inheritance, two just persons are required as witnesses. In Surah Maidah chapter 5 verse 106, the Glorious Qur’an says: “Oh you who believe! When death approaches any of you, (take) witnesses among yourself when making bequests.” [Al-Qur’an 5:106] two just persons of your own (brotherhood) or from outside if you are journeying through the earth and the chance of death befalls you. [Al-Qur’an 65:2]
Two persons endued with justice in case of Talaq. “Four witnesses are required in case of charge against chaste women, [Al-Qur’an 24:4] There are some scholars who are of the opinion that the rule of two female witnesses equal to one male witness should be applied to all the cases. This cannot be agreed upon because one particular verse of the Qur’an from Surah Noor chapter 24, verse 6 clearly equates one female witness with one male witness: “And those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own — their solitary evidence can be received.” [Al-Qur’an 24:6] Hazrat Ayesha (RA), hadith narrated of one witness.
Many jurists agree that even one witness of a woman is sufficient for the sighting of the crescent of the moon. Imagine one woman witness being sufficient for one of the pillars of Islam, i.e. fasting and the whole Muslim community of men and women agree and accept her witness! Some jurists say that one witness is required at the beginning of Ramadhan and two witnesses at the end of Ramadhan. It makes no difference whether the witnesses are men or women.
Some incidents require only female witness and that of a male cannot be accepted. For instance, in dealing with the problems of women, while giving the burial bath i.e. ‘ghusl’ to a woman, the witness has to be a woman.
The seeming inequality of male and female witnesses in financial transactions is not due to any inequality of the sexes in Islam. It is only due to the different natures and roles of men and women in society as envisaged by Islam.
hi,
its bec they can sum time forget whereas man can't. we were reading this the other day in class.
and there is a story for it is well.
once a woman was a witness of a case, then when the case came to a end they called the witness to court then when one lady went, the imam said thats not right there should be 2 off u. then the lady replyed no there should be 2 only if 1 forgets the other one can remind her and i haven't forget.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
All I know is that seminole spreads lies about muslims and islam and has no guts to stand up for what he writes. Audios Seminole.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Why it takes two? Perhaps because women are half wits, so when twice half makes a whole?If you think that is a chauvinistic reason then you have to admit it is a wrong practice whose days are gone along with the uber-patriarch society and change with times.What will it be?
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
Hummm…trying to make sense out of this post. Still trying to find the LOGIC behind this spost.
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
"Meray Mutabik"
witness of two womens equal to one because
it is really hard that two women together agree on one point
it happens only when both are true and the point is true
otherwise they will keep on fighting and fighting and fighting
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
^ Very funny.:)
Re: Why are two woman witnesses, equivalent to only one male witness in Islam ?
And here lies the problem with our muslim community today. Tell me exactly where the Quran tells you not to think?
Ideally, you're believing in a God that is all-knowing and all-benevolent and all-powerful.
Do you think that this same God would give you a brain and then expect you not to use it, ever? Because then you're insulting God's design. Apparently, God's design of a mind is just not good enough to actually use.
The Quran repeatedly tells you to read so that you may understand - verses upon verses telling you that you need to understand religion and the world you live in. Giving you examples upon examples of people living in this world and how they live in it as God's followers.
God wants you to abide by certain rules. But that's not the same thing as saying God doesn't want you to think.
If you're going to believe in something, you had better understand what you're believing in. Because then why not abide by the rules of the Bible, because God is talking through that. Why the Quran? If you weren't born in this religion, you probably wouldn't be muslim. You'd be applying your same reasoning to the religion you'd be born in. Do you understand this concept?
Peace Sister
It may be a bit late to reply to this.
I have not intended to suggest that the Qur'an doesn't expect us not to 'think' per se. What I meant was that it does not require us to think creatively with regards to injunctions. For understanding we need to think, for reflecting we need to think, but to formulate the basis of rulings it is not for us to think, except where complicated issues develop and that is where ijtihad is required, to be done by the experts.
God's design of a mind is good enough to use for the purpose we are here for. We just need to use it in the right way. I understand what you are saying clearly, you are eluding to the idea of 'blind belief', Islam is actually the antithesis of this.
What I meant to have said was 'to think it up' as opposed to merely 'think' ... I hope this has clarified the situation?