Enough of this
Re: Why Ahmadis aren’t muslim?
I have no hesitation to say that if your cousin is sensible, educate enough, brought up in a very good care and under a true religious mahaul then she should be aware of what is right and what’s wrong…also the difference between Kabeerah and Sagheerah sins…tell her to find another one…its hard but she’s got no choice
all in all, ahmedis remain kuffaar (disbelievers of the Islam) and r living in complete ignorance....
Allah hidayat de....
Of all the discussions, the only thing i came to know is that Bismah is Ahmadi/Qadyaani/Lahori :(
following is what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadyaani Claimed: Being Superior to Muhammad(SAW) [Naaozu Billah]:
"The various accomplishments which were bestowed upon all other Prophets were concentrated in a greater degree in the holy prophet. All those accomplishments have been conferred on me through the holy Prophet by means of the shadow system. That is why I bear the name of Adam, Ibrahim, Moses, Noah, Daud, Yousuf, Solaiman, Yahya, Jesus, etc. All the previous Prophets were incarnations of special attributes of the holy Prophet(SAW), but I am a reincarnation of all these special attributes of the holy Prophet.
(Malfoozat, Vol. 3, P. 270, Rabwah)
"And Allah sent down upon me the bounty of the holy Prophet and made it perfect; and he drew towards me the kindness and generosity of the merciful Prophet, so that I became one with him. Thus, he who joins my group, joins the group of the companions (Sahaba) of my Leader, the best of messengers. It is not hidden from those who have the ability to think that this is what the words "Akhareen Menhom" (others of them) mean. The person who makes a difference between me and the Mustafa has neither seen me nor recognized me."
(Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 258-259; Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, P. 171)
"Many Thrones descended from the heaven but thy throne has been placed the highest."
(Tadhkirah, P. 346/643, Second Edition - Mirza's "Revelation"; Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 89)
"One who denies that the mission of the Prophet(SAW) is related to the 6th thousand (13th century) as it was related to 5th thousand (6th century), denies the truth and the text of the Quran and is among the zalemeen (gone astray). The truth is that the spiritual power of the holy Prophet(SAW) at the end of the 6th thousand (13th century in Mirza Ghulam), i.e. these days, is much stronger, more complete and stronger than in those early years. Nay, it is like the fourteenth (moonlit) night (full moon)."
(Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 271-272; Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 181)
"For the holy Prophet, God showed only the sign of Eclipse of Moon; But for me he has shown the sign of Eclipse of both Moon and Sun (solar eclipse), thus will you disbelieve me. If his Kalaam (words) were a miracle, a sign, my Kalaam is also a miracle."
(Aijaz-e-Ahmadi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol.19, P.183; Aijaz-e-Ahmadi, P. 71/79)
"And say, O People, I have come as a Prophet of Allah towards you all."
(Tadhkirah, P. 352, Fourth Edition, Mirza Ghulam's "revelations")
"It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any other man; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(SAW)."
(Al-Fadl, July 17, 1922, by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)
"[It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles...] My Miracles exceed one million in number."
(Tadhkirah tul Shahadatain, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 20, P. 43)
"And Islam started like the crescent which was destined ultimately to become in the later ages the full moon (of the 14th night of the month), by the command of God. Thus, Allah's Wisdom willed that Islam should assume the form of the full moon in that century which should resemble the full moon by way of counting (i.e. in the 14th century)."
(Khutba-i-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 275; Khutba-i-Ilhamiah, P. 184/93)
"The spiritual achievement of our holy prophet(SAW) took place during the 5th thousand (the Mekkan mission) with its brief attributes and that period was not the end of this spiritual achievement. It was rather the first step to the highest pinnacle of its perfection. Thereafter, this spiritual achievement manifested itself in its full glamour during the 6th thousand (the time of Mirza Ghulam)."
(Khutba-i-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 266; Khutba-i-Ilhamiah, P. 177)
"It is worth remembering here that the Khutba-e-Ilhamiah (the inspired Address) is that Address which was conferred upon the Promised Messiah by God in the form of a miracle, as its name indicates. So this book should not be taken as an ordinary book, because every sentence of it has the characteristic of divine inspiration. Then, at Page 171 of this very book, hazrate aqdas (Mirza Ghulam) says:
'He who makes a difference between me and the Mustafa has neither seen me nor recognized me.' Similarly it is written at page 181, 'He who denies that the mission of the Prophet(SAW) is related to the 6th thousand (13th century) as it was related to the 5th thousand (6th century), denies the truth and the text of the Quran. The truth is that the spiritual power of the holy Prophet(SAW) at the end of the 6th thousand, i.e. these days, is much stronger, more complete and stronger than in those early years'. It is clear from these references that the Promised Messiah was not a man of ordinary status. But, among the Ummah of Muhammad, in consideration of his rank, he surpassed all' (including hazrat Muhammad)."
(Kalimat-ul-Fasl, P. 130-131; Review of Religions, March-April 1915)
"O dear ones, Our Imam in this world is Ghulam Ahmad in the "Darul Amaan" (house of security, Qadian).
Ghulam Ahmad is the Throne (Arsh) of the Great Lord (Rabbe Akbar).
This is as if his rest-house is situated in a place which knows no bounds (La Makan).
Ghulam Ahmad is the true Messenger of Allah (Rasul Allah).
He has been elevated with honor among mankind and Jinn.
*Muhammad has been reincarnated among us; enhanced is he in his dignity and rank. *
O Akmal, it anyone longs to see Muhammad, he should see Ghulam Ahmad in Qadian."
(Al-Badr, Vol. 2, No. 25, October 25, 1906; reprint in Paigham-us-Sulh, March 14, 1916)
"The Mental development of the holy Messiah (Mirza of Qadian) was higher than that of the holy Prophet(SAW) ... This is only a part of the superiority which the Promised Messiah (Mirza Ghulam) had over the holy Prophet(SAW). The mental faculties of the holy Prophet could not be manifested fully, although the capacity existed, owing to the deficient civilization of the time. They have now manifested themselves in their full form through the Promised Messiah, by force of the advancement of civilization."
*(Review of Religions, May 1929; Qadiani Religion, P. 266/241; 9th Edition Lahore) *
This is indicative of the true unIslamic beliefs of Qadianism. In Islam, believing that one can reach and surpass the holy Prophet of Allah(SAW), the greatest of believers and prophets, amounts to disbelief. In the Holy Quran, we are even told:
O you who believe! Do not put yourself ahead of Allah and His Messenger; But fear Allah: for Allah is He Who hears and knows all things.
O you who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as you may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and you perceive not.
(Holy Quran, Al-Hujurat, 49:1-2)
What of the people who believe they can surpass the holy Prophet(SAW) in the matter of faith? What of the people who believe Islam was somehow imperfect at the time of the Holy Prophet(SAW) and needed Mirza's "revelations" to become an improved faith?! Haven't they abandoned Islam by denying the following verse of the Holy Quran?
"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)
.
.
.
.
.
Wama Alaina ILLAL balagh!
P.S: Maharani! sorry but I could not resist to post this: as for your problem, ur cousin must understand this that AHMADIES are different!!!
thanx for the post....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CHhutki: *
I dunno thesee lambi batein but i do believe in 1st kalma which is GOD is 1 n muhammad is his last prophet
i also studied tanslation of ahmadi quran which is so much different from ours
mahrani g aapni friend ko samjhao k love is always in our hearts its not necessary that our beloved r always with us agar she married there to woh aik bohut bara gunah kare gi bc she has no nikah with that person
[/QUOTE]
Exactly this is what I already pointed out in this forum.
Yes! I admitted on this forum once, that we Ahmedies have different 1st Kalima from rest of Pakistani Muslims .
So please read following two different Kalimas; First is the Ahmedie's 1st Kalima and Second is the 1st Kalima of other Pakistani Muslims .
1- "God is 1 n Muhammad is his Prophet." (La Illaha Illallah Muhammadur Rasool-ul-Allah) --- This is first Kalima of Ahmedies.
2- "God is 1 n Muhammad is his Last Prophet." (La Illaha Illallah Muhammadur Aakhirul Rasool-ul-Allah) --- This is the first Kalima of other Pakistani Muslims.
I am Ahmedy and so I believe in the 1st Kalima listed first here.
So not both Kalimas listed above are originals. Only one is the original and the other is Fabricated.
Now it is on to you ppl to decide which Kalima is the original and which is Fabricated.
If Kalima No.1 is the original, then Ahmedies are right.
If Kalima No.2 is the original, then Ahmedies are wrong.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CHhutki: *
i also studied tanslation of ahmadi quran which is so much different from ours
[/QUOTE]
So dear CHhutki,,
Let me admit also that Yes!!! There are same kind of differences between translations of Ahmedi Quran and that of yours as there is the difference in translation in first Kalima between the two.
There are two objections that have been raised here, one that Mirza Sahib (as) somehow didn't believe in Khatm-e-Nabowat and the other went as far as trying to prove that he somehow claimed to be something more than that. I believe he answered both the objections in his book; Ek Ghalati Ka Izala. He writes:
"Some members of my community who possess only a sketchy and superficial knowledge of my claims and the arguments in support of them and have had no time to study my writings closely nor have kept my company for a reasonable length of time to perfect their knowledge, some time meet an opponent's objection with a reply which is not based on facts. The result inevitably is that notwithstanding their being in the right they suffer a great humiliation.
Only recently an Ahmadi was confronted with an objection to the effect that he had pledged allegiance to one who claimed to be a nabi (prophet) and a rasul (messenger). He got over this objection by a sheer denial of any such claim on my part. Obviously the answer was not correct.
The fact is that the holy and pure revelation which God has vouchsafed me contains such words as nabi (prophet) and rasul (messenger). These words occur in my revelations not once or twice but hundreds of times. In the face of these revelations, how can this answer be correct that such words do not occur at all. Whereas such words now occur more often with greater frequency and clarity than before.
.
.
.
... no nabi (prophet) can come after the Holy Prophet till the end of time with an independent law; likewise, no one can attain to prophethood without the mediation of the Holy Prophet and having merged his whole being into that of the Holy Prophet to the extent that he may be known as Muhammad and Ahmad in heaven. He who lays claim to prophethood without having fulfilled these conditions is a Kafir (infidel). The sense of the expression KHATAMAN NABIYYEEN (Seal of the prophets) demands that all traces of separateness from the Holy Prophet should disappear and as long as there persists the least veneer of it, anybody claiming to be a nabi (prophet) will be dubbed as a breaker of the Seal to which the expression KHAATAMAN NABIYYEEN (Seal of the prophets) refers. But if a person as a result of a complete union loses his whole being in that of the Prophet, wiping out the least trace of separateness and comes to reflect in his person all the beauties and excellences of the Holy Prophet like a clear mirror, he will be called a nabi (prophet) without, however, breaking the Prophet's Seal because he is a reflex of Muhammad and his alter-ego.
.
.
.
I swear by God Who has raised me and Whose curse falls upon him who fabricates lies about Him, that He has sent me as the Promised Messiah. And my faith in my clear revelations is not a whit less firm and invincible than my faith in the verses of the Holy Quran and the truth of the revelation that God has caused to descend on me has become quite manifest by a host of successive signs that He has shown. And I feel not the least hesitation in swearing by God while standing in the sacred precincts of the Ka'ba that that holy revelation which descends on me is the word of the self-same God Who sent down His word to Moses, Jesus and to the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be on him. The earth bore witness to the truth of my claim and so did heaven. Both of them declared and proclaimed that I was God's Vicegerent on earth. But as the prophecies told of yore I was bound to be rejected. So those upon whose hearts there is a covering will not accept me. But I know and am convinced that God shall help me as He has always helped His Messengers in the past. there is no one who can stand against me because they are devoid of Divine assistance. **
.
.
.
Of course this should also be remembered and **never be forgotten **that in spite of my being called a Prophet and Messenger, God has informed me that **I have not been the recipient of all these spiritual blessings and favours independently and without the mediation of anybody. No; there dwells in heaven a holy being (the Holy Prophet Muhammad) through whose spiritual patronage all this Grace of God has descended on me. It is through his mediation and after having completely merged my whole being into that of the Great Prophet and after having been known as Muhammad and Ahmad that I am a RASUL (Messenger) and NABI (Prophet), that is to say, I have been sent with a mission and have been endowed with the knowledge of the Unseen. In this way my claim to prophethood does in no way interfere with the Holy Prophet's status of KHATAM-AN-NABIYYIN (Seal of the prophets), because I have been able to acquire this name only by reflecting in my person all the excellences of the Great Prophet and by annihilating myself in his consuming love."
I see the discussion going nowhere. This should serve as a notice to those who have taken to slinging mud at each other. Stick to the topic.
And my only question is...can anyone, and i mean anyone here, 'prove' themselves as muslims? And isnt that moreimportant than proving someone else as nonmuslim?
Lahori Maharani. Inter-'anything' marriages are always an uphill battle, whether they are inter cultural, inter religious, inter-racial, or anything else.
In the case you quoted, I see it as an inter-ideological marriage. Tell them to first take stock of their long-term lives, rather than their immediate emotions. How will they manage their kids? Their families? would they rather lead a solo life? If either of them can convert, that will make at least one family happy. SO can they adopt that as a compromise? They need to think wiht all aspects in mind..not just their mutual love. Love is not the only fact that leads to a marriage. There are countless other practicalities. So they need to go through their checklist.
If they are of an 'independant nature' then i think they should go for it , after all finding someone who you like is such a headache! If you think they are very attached to their parents such that their influence is likely to seriously affect the relationship, then i think they should part ways.
Hope this helps.
Babar
When the Quran is complete then how come Ahmedis have a differences in Quran?
When did Mirza Ghulam get revelation and if he did get revelation then how come there is no new book for the Ahmedis?
Chaltahai, stay on the topic, and NYFella, you stay in the bathroom.
It’s really interesting to know that people don’t have food to eat, no schools to go to, practically zilch sex life (unless you include hatha-pie), and they are worried about why Ahmadis are not Muslim. Nonetheless it is interesting to read the garbage.
Adnan Ahmed said:
Hey!! Finally! Someone who sees a difference!! ROFL.
So that would make Sunnis what - kafir? And Ahmediyas what - Kafir. And Shi’ites what - Kafir? And so - + - + - = -. So that leaves US ALL IN THE HOLE!!! Hell hole I mean!!! 
So, we are all kafir. Agreed!!!
I second…
I agree…
I say Beyja Beyja ARMED MUGHAL 
Will the Ahmadies care to explain how a 'subordinate prophet' of theirs died in as horrible a manner as Mirza died ?
Dieing in your own pile of crap isnt no way for a real prophet to die.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Maniac: *
Will the Ahmadies care to explain how a 'subordinate prophet' of theirs died in as horrible a manner as Mirza died ?
Dieing in your own pile of crap isnt no way for a real prophet to die.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know how many times, I've typed in this thread, do you believe whatever you hear, don't you people have the intelligence to find out about something yourself rather than just believing what the elders tell you. Obviously yes.
Hmmmmm… You gotta point there but let say if you call yourself A VIRGIN…which I am sure you are not…but according to you we shouldn’t believe you…until unless we find out… (but if we find out than you won’t be a virgin anymore )…so the out come of this ****ty talk is “You have no point and your virginity is in doubt as well”. 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by s_H_e_I_k_H: *
Babar
When the Quran is complete then how come Ahmedis have a differences in Quran?
When did Mirza Ghulam get revelation and if he did get revelation then how come there is no new book for the Ahmedis?
[/QUOTE]
s_H_e_I_k_H
Please read my previous post again.
I never have said that there are differences in Quran itself. Quran is absolutly complete and altrations in Quran are not possible. There are differences, however, in some translations. Refer to my previous post where I have hilighted the difference in the translation of 1st Kalima and decide on your own about which translation is correct. I assure you that there are same kind of differences in the translations of some of the verses of Quran.
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed got revelations and his revelations were exactly in accordance with Quran i.e there are no conflicts between revelations and Quran. So our book is the Quran and we are proud of being the followers of Holy Quran.
be proud of whatever u like to be but dont call urselves muslims....
quran clearly states that [colr=red]Muhammad is the last of the Prophets and u still wish to accept that ahmed qadyani imposter as a prophet????
and even if he was some promised messiah, where did u get the idea that the messiah wud get any revelations or add-ons for the Quran????
but atleast ahmedi kuffar r so much pbsessed with Islam that unlike other kuffaar they cant even get a seperate name for themelves....
they still know Islam is the right religion and not ahmedi but still they like to call themselves muslims without following Islam and instead follow an imposter who turned away from Islam and sold his self to the british for some cheap money....
ahmadees are muslim. but pakistan dont call them muslim. but they belive in Allah and Nabi. but they believe more in their leader mirza.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Godiva: *
ahmadees are muslim. but pakistan dont call them muslim. but they belive in Allah and Nabi. but they believe more in their leader mirza.
[/QUOTE]
I can see where you are coming from...its not your fault if you don't have proper knowledge...the blame goes to LahoriMahrani's who should have started a simple topic, for a person like you, to understand :p
Oh on the second thought, ahmedis (meaning kuffars) don't claim mirza as their leader, if you are an ahmedi you know what I am taking about...