Why Ahmadis aren't muslim?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Okay I am having a very serious problem. And I need your :help:
I just came to know about Ahmadis and how they are not considered muslims in pakistan…

I am asking for advice and suggestions here

Here is the issue..

My cousin M, wants to get married to B (her BF) who is ahmadi…her family is totally not happy about her decision…She is mugal and arai. She is sooo stressed about this problem that she even tried to commit suicide I am really worried about her as I love her like a sister..She talked to me about her matter and told me she is willing to convert Ahmadi. But her family doesn’t want that. Both the guy and the girl totally want to get married, and they don’t care so much about the religion issue, but their families do…
Now I say what is wrong with getting married to an ahmadi…It shouldn’t matter as long as they both love each other…Their families are making a big deal out of it. I can’t see her suffer like this anymore…she is like my sister. I am really worried about her…Why is this considered so wrong in our society.. I mean if the guy is legitimate and loves her then what the hell. WHO CARE? its their lives

What do you guyz think? I really want to find a solution to this problem..Any comments, advice or suggestion for her…

2

ahmedis r not muslims since they believe that some ghulam ahmed qadyani was a prophet....
the government of pakistan has declared them non-muslims cuz of the fact that thgey dont believe in the finality of the Prophet Muhammad....

dont be misled by what ahmedis will give u here cuz they try to deceive ppl by saying that they r muslims....

as far as i see it, ahmadis r the biggest threat to the understanding of Islam in the west cuz of their unIslamic behavior and the Muslim label they put on themselves....

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There’s another thread in this forum which you might find of interest where the topic of a woman choosing her husband is discussed as well as marriage between Muslims and non-Muslims. Click below…

Can a woman choose her own husband in Islam?

Iqbal

4

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
ahmedis r not muslims since they believe that some ghulam ahmed qadyani was a prophet....
the government of pakistan has declared them non-muslims cuz of the fact that thgey dont believe in the finality of the Prophet Muhammad....

[/QUOTE]

Right, for the record, Ahmadies believe that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a ** subordinate Prophet ** to Hadhrat Mohammad (s.a.w) and didnot bring a different shariya to Hadhrat Mohammad (s.a.w). This issue has been brought up in this forum, countless times and people still don't make the effort to learn about the Ahmadi's believes and are very quick to make allegations.
The Government is Pakistan is God is it (Naouzubillah) ???
That they have the right to strip people off their religion haaN? sheesh!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
dont be misled by what ahmedis will give u here cuz they try to deceive ppl by saying that they r muslims....

[/QUOTE]

And here I was thinkin' that a Muslim never judge another if they say that they are Muslim, and that it's Allah who decides that...
ummm, so not obviously according to your belief eh?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
as far as i see it, ahmadis r the biggest threat to the understanding of Islam in the west cuz of their unIslamic behavior and the Muslim label they put on themselves....

[/QUOTE]

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but Allah MiaN only knows how far that's true.

Okies, going back to that LM's question, I personally think that your cousin should be willing to convert to ahmadiyyat, if she cares about the religion, rather than because she's in love with the guy, you have to be spritually ready to convert to a different believes. And as you say that they don't care about religion, than maybe they should because these things do cause problems afterwards in life, in my opinion.
And the guy, should decide what he wants aswell, I think they both need to do some serious thinking, before they take another step, I mean its a BIG step and I'm sure they don't want to be falling out with their families, because who knows what the future might bring. They need to ask themselves if they are prepare to start their lives without their families and if they are what effect that would have on their future, I'm just saying this because to marry somone against parent's will is one thing but to marry someone due to a religion difference is totally another.

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subordinate Prophet ? what does this actually means

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
subordinate Prophet ? what does this actually means
[/QUOTE]

Umm, I've explained that already, on the above post that he brought the same shariyah as the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) meaning that he was under Holy Prophet (s.a.w) and claimed to be the Promissed Messiah and Mehdi.
If you don't know the meaning of ** subordinate **, you can look up in the dictionary.

7

is he from the family of Prophet Mohummad?

8

bismah you did not reply the core question of Sheraz CT that "is Hazrat Muhammad(pbuh) is the last Prophet or not?
can you please answer the question as yes or no.:)

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Bismah: *
**Umm, I've explained that already, on the above post that he brought the same shariyah as the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) meaning that he was under Holy Prophet (s.a.w) and claimed to be the Promissed Messiah and Mehdi. *
[/QUOTE]

Do you mean by this that both the Promised Messiah and the Mahdi are one and the same person? This is often based on a false hadith that says:

"The Mahdi is none other than the Messiah" (ibn Majah)

This is not an authentic hadith and in fact is a fabricated concoction according to some hadith masters. For example, ash-Shawkani (d.1250H) includes it in his collection of spurious hadith, Al-Fawa'id al-Majmu'a (#1426), where he also mentions as-Saghani's statement that it is "fabricated". As-Suyuti (d.911H) said its chain of transmission is "weak" in his work Akhbar al-Mahdi (2:274 - part of al-Hawi lil-Fatawi) and Hafidh adh-Dhahabi (d.748H) called it a "rejected report" in al-Mizan al-'Itidal (#7479).

Also, as far as I was aware, a major theological split occurred in the Ahmadiyya movement soon after Mirza Ghulam Ahmed's death. Which side of the fence do your beliefs fall?

And Allah knows best.

Iqbal

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Re: Why Ahmadis aren’t muslim?

Maharani sahiba…
In 22 years that I have lived in pakistan never have i heard about ahmadis that much as much I have heard on this forum… Time and again I have told the asministrators to rename this forum as pakistanis_expelled_ahmadis.org…but they wont take my advice.
first of all non of us here write a column in any newspaper as the agony aunt/uncle…so ur thought of asking us advice is totttally flawed.
If u r one of the countless ahmadis here who has this separate sign in name to have counter arguments on this forum to prove ur point …then please keep ur sick jokes to urself rather then sharing them with us.

PS ahmedis I dont have anything against ur religion it is that maharani needs someone to dictate her when the maharaja is not around.

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Bismah

SUBORDINATE.

Main Entry: 1sub.or.di.nate - (adjective)
Pronunciation: s&-'bor-d^&]n-&t, -'bord-n&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English subordinat, from Medieval Latin subordinatus, past participle of subordinare to subordinate, from Latin sub- + ordinare to order -- more at ORDAIN
Date: 15th century
1 : placed in or occupying a lower class, rank, or position : INFERIOR
2 : submissive to or controlled by authority
3 a : of, relating to, or constituting a clause that functions as a noun, adjective, or adverb b : SUBORDINATING
- sub.or.di.nate.ly adverb
- sub.or.di.nate.ness noun

Main Entry: 2subordinate - (noun)
Function: noun
Date: 1640
: one that is subordinate

Main Entry: 3sub.or.di.nate - (transitive verb)
Pronunciation: s&-'bor-d^&]n-"At
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Medieval Latin subordinatus
Date: 1597
Inflected Form(s): -nat.ed; -nat.ing
1 : to make subject or subservient
2 : to treat as of less value or importance
- sub.or.di.na.tion /-"bor-d^&]n-'A-sh&n/ noun
- sub.or.di.na.tive /-'bor-d^&]n-"A-tiv/ adjective

Your'e either a Prophet or not a Prophet!

Theres no such thing as half a Prophet or partial Prophet or seasonal Prophet and definitely no such thing as a SUBORDINATE PROPHET!

002.014 When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

002.015 Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).

002.016 These are they who have bartered Guidance for error: But their traffic is profitless, and they have lost true direction,

002.017 Their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in utter darkness. So they could not see.

002.018 Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).

034.028 We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not.

005.003 ....This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
is he from the family of Prophet Mohummad?
[/QUOTE]

Are you geniuenly intresting in learning about ahmadiyyat or are you just gonna keep asking question until you find something where you can start making allegations?

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Bismah

Your'e either a Prophet or not a Prophet!

Theres no such thing as half a Prophet or partial Prophet or seasonal Prophet and definitely no such thing as a SUBORDINATE PROPHET!

[/QUOTE]

Says whom? I can understand your point, without you having to type in caps.
Going back to the point of there is “definitely no such thing as a SUBORDINATE PROPHET!”

The Holy Quran very clearly declares that a subordinate prophet will definitely come from among the devoted followers of the Holy Prophet It states:

** And Whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger of His shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed his blessings, namely, the Prophet, the Truthful, the Martyrs and the Righteous. And excellent companions are these. (4:70) Surah Al-Nisa, verse 70 **

In this verse Allah says that all those who follow Allah and His Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) will be put in one of the following categories:
1: Prophets (Nabi)
2: Truthful (Siddique)
3: Martyrs (Shaheed)
4: Righteous (Saleh)

And may I ask why you have posted all those verses from the Quran, as far as I’m concerned some of the members of Gupshup are absent and as soon as they see a topic on the religion forum which includes ** Ahmadi ** in it, they are back to start making allegations against Ahmadiyyat. Although they probably have had this opportunity before, as this topic has come time and again.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Bismah: *

Are you geniuenly intresting in learning about ahmadiyyat or are you just gonna keep asking question until you find something where you can start making allegations?
[/QUOTE]

because there are hadith in shia sunni books where Prophet said to Imam Ali that You are to me what Haroon was to Moses but there will be no Prophet after me..also in other hadith Prophet talks about Imam Mehdi and that He will be Prophets family

i just really dont know too much about Mr. subordinate

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Bismah: *
**And Whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger of His shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed his blessings, namely, the Prophet, the Truthful, the Martyrs and the Righteous. And excellent companions are these. (4:70) Surah Al-Nisa, verse 70

In this verse Allah says that all those who follow Allah and His Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) will be put in one of the following categories:
1: Prophets (Nabi)
2: Truthful (Siddique)
3: Martyrs (Shaheed)
4: Righteous (Saleh)

**
[/QUOTE]

This is a very convenient translation of 4:69 (not v.70). The verse actually says that such people will be "with those" who are Prophets and Martyrs etc. The last sentence of the verse clarifies that it is in fact talking about companionship (i.e. in Paradise) with people from the categories mentioned. It certainly doesn't say that they will become Prophets themselves.

Refer to Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation "are in the company of those"; also Pickthall "they are with those"; Khan & Hilali "they will be in the company of"; and N.J. Dawood "shall dwell with".

And Allah knows best.

Iqbal

16

The way I see it if someone doesn't believe that Hazrat Mohammed (P.B.U.H) is the last Prophet from Allah he has no right to claim himself as a Muslim. and your cousin should try to understand that. :~)

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *

because there are hadith in shia sunni books where Prophet said to Imam Ali that You are to me what Haroon was to Moses but there will be no Prophet after me..also in other hadith Prophet talks about Imam Mehdi and that He will be Prophets family

i just really dont know too much about Mr. subordinate
[/QUOTE]

Would you mind quoting from those hadith with refrence?

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Bismah: *

Would you mind quoting from those hadith with refrence?
[/QUOTE]

would that really make a difference :)

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *

This is a very convenient translation of 4:69 (not v.70). The verse actually says that such people will be "with those" who are Prophets and Martyrs etc. The last sentence of the verse clarifies that it is in fact talking about companionship (i.e. in Paradise) with people from the categories mentioned. It certainly doesn't say that they will become Prophets themselves.

Refer to Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation "are in the company of those"; also Pickthall "they are with those"; Khan & Hilali "they will be in the company of"; and N.J. Dawood "shall dwell with".

And Allah knows best.

Iqbal
[/QUOTE]

I knew that someone will agree with the last three but will disagree with Prophets can not appear from among the believers of Allah and His Messenger, before posting the ayah.
The Bahr al – Muhît (vol.iii,p.287) quotes Al Raghib as saying :

** God has divided the believers in to four classes in this verse, and has appointed for them four stages, some of which are lower than others, and He has exhorted true believers not to remain behind any of these stages” **
And also adds that ** “Prophethood is of two kinds, general and special. The special Prophethood, the Law-bearing Prophethood, is now unattainable; but the general Prophethood continues to be attained. **

And regarding the subject of the verse being 69 and not 70, we count Bismillah as the first verse when the surah begin. So, it was 70.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *

would that really make a difference :)
[/QUOTE]

It would make it easier if I knew what hadith you were talking about because it would be in detail.
But No, it wouldn't if you are just going to keep dragin' the subject. :)