Re: Who is the bigger sinner
An environmentalist rapist vs a polluting doctor
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
I have a simple question where in Islam does it say not being environmentally conscious is a sin?
The life of the Prophet(SWA) is an example and should be followed, he lived a simple humble life as Aisha(RA) pointed out that thy did not light a stove for weeks and subsisted on dates and water and some time neighbors brought milk, if we lived a simple life there would be no environmental issues.
There is a Hadith about continue to plant a tree even at the instance of resurrection, isn't that proof of the importance of the environment, there is hadith about the thawwab of planting a tree, so if planting a tree is a great deed isn't destroying them a great sin.
There is hadith about cleanliness, can't that also mean n polluting, dirt can also mean toxins.
Then there is guidance as to not hurt people and animals, pollution hurts all life form.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Response RV/Captain/LE...I have no issues with sincere prayers and rituals but huge issues with insincere acts, no RV I cannot look in hearts but it is logic that if you are performing all the duties that presents good optics and gives you the power to demand respect and tell people how you are better than the rest and you feel that you can lash out at will and call people Shaitans then I can bet anything that namaz is Dikhawa, a sincere namaz is supposed to instill fear and love of God so we become good people, If a particular namazi is rude, inconsiderate, unreliable, is a bad neighbor, bad FIL, ML, DIL, SIL then rest assured that there was no god in that prayer, as mentioned in religion that an insincere namaz is only banging your head on the floor.
If all of us after Jumma prayers gathered up and started cleaning neighborhoods, planting trees, mowing lawns for seniors, offering sick people rides and other community services we wll prove that our prayers are sincere and we do it for our love of our God.
But if we come out of mosques blocking traffic, spitting every where, throwing cigarette buts, blocking drive ways judging people, being rude and abrasive then I will call it complete Dikhawa.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Too many ifs and buts in your story. You are just going in circles.
It would be better if you worry about your own prayers and try to fulfill other religious obligations yourself first. Because the person who is judging the most is you!
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Too many ifs and buts in your story. You are just going in circles.
It would be better if you worry about your own prayers and try to fulfill other religious obligations yourself first. Because the person who is judging the most is you!
This s exactly the behavior I am talking about, you said your namaz, now you get to tell me what I should be doing
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
My life s my prayer, that is my belief.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Response RV/Captain/LE...I have no issues with sincere prayers and rituals but huge issues with insincere acts, no RV I cannot look in hearts but it is logic that if you are performing all the duties that presents good optics and gives you the power to demand respect and tell people how you are better than the rest and you feel that you can lash out at will and call people Shaitans then I can bet anything that namaz is Dikhawa, a sincere namaz is supposed to instill fear and love of God so we become good people, If a particular namazi is rude, inconsiderate, unreliable, is a bad neighbor, bad FIL, ML, DIL, SIL then rest assured that there was no god in that prayer, as mentioned in religion that an insincere namaz is only banging your head on the floor.
If you thinking judging peoples' intentions like that is ok, then I don't see why there should be a problem with them judging those who drink, indulge in illicit relationships, dress inappropriately etc.
[quote]
If all of us after Jumma prayers gathered up and started cleaning neighborhoods, planting trees, mowing lawns for seniors, offering sick people rides and other community services we wll prove that our prayers are sincere and we do it for our love of our God.
[/QUOTE]
All of this can be done equally for show and come under riya as well. So it doesn't necessarily prove anything in terms of sincerity.
Consider this--you'll look at them and say their salat and other acts of worship are not worth anything because they don't do what you think they should do. Then they too can look at someone who is particular about environment/conservation but doesn't pray. So they can say that they're doing these things but it doesn't get them to pray, so there's nothing so good about it either. So the "they think they're so good because they're doing x but that still doesn't get them to do y, so x isn't worth anything" can easily work both ways.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
It's MEME time people. We have fired the analyst who was critical earlier. Here r some key words
Cheesy
Judgmental
Pro environment
Anti environment
Comprehension problems
Bully
Exaggeration of bully
Rude
It rude
Complacent
Not complacent
Baaji
Bonda southie dish like bajji
Off topic
On topic
Multi
Uni
Appropriate
Inappropriate
MEME (S) futures looking up.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
If you thinking judging peoples' intentions like that is ok, then I don't see why there should be a problem with them judging those who drink, indulge in illicit relationships, dress inappropriately etc.
All of this can be done equally for show and come under riya as well. So it doesn't necessarily prove anything in terms of sincerity.
Consider this--you'll look at them and say their salat and other acts of worship are not worth anything because they don't do what you think they should do. Then they too can look at someone who is particular about environment/conservation but doesn't pray. So they can say that they're doing these things but it doesn't get them to pray, so there's nothing so good about it either. So the "they think they're so good because they're doing x but that still doesn't get them to do y, so x isn't worth anything" can easily work both ways.
“The most beloved of people according to Allah is he who brings most benefit, and the most beloved of deeds according to Allah the Mighty, the Magnificent, is that you bring happiness to a fellow Muslim, or relieve him of distress, or pay off his debt or stave away hunger from him. It is more beloved to me that I walk with my brother Muslim in his time of need, than I stay secluded in the mosque for a month. Whoever holds back his anger, Allah will cover his faults, and whoever suppresses his fury while being able to execute it, Allah will fill his heart with satisfaction on the Day of Standing. Whoever walks with his brother Muslim in need until he establishes that for him, Allah will establish his feet firmly on the day when all feet shall slip. Indeed, bad character ruins deeds just as vinegar ruins honey.” (Tabarani, Hasan)
All I am saying that if we are doing just the stuff that provides the optics of being religious and not benefiting humanity, are those sincere act.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
“The most beloved of people according to Allah is he who brings most benefit, and the most beloved of deeds according to Allah the Mighty, the Magnificent, is that you bring happiness to a fellow Muslim, or relieve him of distress, or pay off his debt or stave away hunger from him. It is more beloved to me that I walk with my brother Muslim in his time of need, than I stay secluded in the mosque for a month. Whoever holds back his anger, Allah will cover his faults, and whoever suppresses his fury while being able to execute it, Allah will fill his heart with satisfaction on the Day of Standing. Whoever walks with his brother Muslim in need until he establishes that for him, Allah will establish his feet firmly on the day when all feet shall slip. Indeed, bad character ruins deeds just as vinegar ruins honey.” (Tabarani, Hasan)
I don't disagree with what you've quoted at all. But in the context of what you say, if you're implying that bad character on their part is to pass judgement on those who commit the sins you've mentioned in your opening post, then it's equally bad character in judging them for not living up to your expectations.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
I don't disagree with what you've quoted at all. But in the context of what you say, if you're implying that bad character on their part is to pass judgement on those who commit the sins you've mentioned in your opening post, then it's equally bad character in judging them for not living up to your expectations.
Bad behavior should be shunned as it grows and multiplies if unchecked, why judge on dress and not on behavior, hadith clearly states slander is worse than adultery, so why go up in arms over a revealing dress and let a hijabi get away with slander, when RV called me SHAITAN..is that not SLANDER, is that not worse than adultery, how many namaaz and Hajj are needed to wash off a sin bigger than adultery
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
This s exactly the behavior I am talking about, you said your namaz, now you get to tell me what I should be doing
Wow, the writing style is the same, the complaints are the same, who are you trying to kid?
Here's the difference between you and Le Pak:
1) You assumed that she prayed her namaz when it's possible she didn't. But she didn't make any assumptions about whether you said your namaz or not.
2) You have made the assumption that she not only prayed namaz but became arrogant about her namaz and used her namaz as a license to "tell you what to do." You are indirectly implying that she prays her namaz without humility and with arrogance, something that only Allah would know and not you. But you seem to like playing God.
3) Now let's look at what Le Pak has "told you to do." She simply said worry about your own ibadat before trying to determine if everyone else's is a dikhawa. UNLIKE you, she only told you to worry about it, she didn't judge the quality of your ibadat and reduce it to hypocrisy.
4) "You have prayed your namaz so now you get to tell me what to do." Interesting statement. You seem to associate the act of namaz with arrogance as a default. You think if you pray namaz you "get to" to do this, that, and the other. The same "logic" can be flipped around on you:
You plant your trees and pick up trash so now you "get to" use these actions to not only tell other Muslims what they should be doing, but you have gone beyond that to reduce ALL their ibadat to hypocrisy. Not only that, but you "get to" use these actions to dismiss the laxity in rituals. As in, "I see you planting trees so it's no big deal if you show cleavage and skip your prayers."
5) Your "beef" with other Muslims is that they use their ritual ibadat to exempt themselves from caring for the environment. Your beef is that other Muslims will issue judgment when they see you displaying a laxity in various religious commandments. Who knows? Maybe they said you'd go to hell. But you are using actions like taking care of the env as a "pass" for laxity in rituals and other commandments. And if the other Muslims have shook their head at you and said you'd be a hell-dweller........you have outdone them by believing that they will in the lowest depth of hell merely by virtue of calling them hypocrites....as hypocrites will be in the lowest part.
You listed "not judging" among other things such as not spitting, blocking traffic, etc. Let me remind you that calling other Muslims a hypocrite is judging. Judging is innate, it's human nature, we often times do it without thinking, it's automatic. And your attitude reads like the pot calling the kettle black.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Bad behavior should be shunned as it grows and multiplies if unchecked, why judge on dress and not on behavior, hadith clearly states slander is worse than adultery, so why go up in arms over a revealing dress and let a hijabi get away with slander, when RV called me SHAITAN..is that not SLANDER, is that not worse than adultery, how many namaaz and Hajj are needed to wash off a sin bigger than adultery
Ok but why call it bad behaviour only when someone who is dressed inappropriately is the target? Why not go the whole way and refrain from judging intentions of others, like those who make the effort to perform prescribed acts of worship that we may not bother to?
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
how about the basic teaching of Islam:
“amr bil ma’roof wa nhi anal munkar”?
[Enjoining good and forbidding wrong]
according to Qur’aan, we are enjoined to do that:
Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
*Let there be people among you, who invite to the best [in religion]; and command that which is just, and forbid that which is evil; and they shall be happy.
“Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures), - in the law and the Gospel; - for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him, - it is they who will prosper.”
And the faithful men, and the faithful women are friends one to another: They command that which is just, and they forbid that which is evil; and they are constant at prayer, and pay their appointed alms; and they obey God, and his apostle: Unto these will God be Merciful; for He [is] Mighty [and] Wise.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Ok but why call it bad behaviour only when someone who is dressed inappropriately is the target? Why not go the whole way and refrain from judging intentions of others, like those who make the effort to perform prescribed acts of worship that we may not bother to?
because as per Hadith a hypocrite is worse than a deficient muslim.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
because as per Hadith a hypocrite is worse than a deficient muslim.
Ok, and? In the time of Nabi (SAW) not even a munaafiq would miss salat with jamat, let alone not pray at all. So there's really no point in criticizing those who pray and are deficient in other things but then whining that those who pray criticize those who commit other sins openly.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Knight,
RV called me a shaitan...RV called me a shaitan. Is this to deflect from you calling multiple Muslims a "hypocrite".....? At least RV is not attacking all Muslims and is focused on one person, You.
Now let me CLARIFY the shaitan comment to you and let's see if you're able to understand....though I doubt you will.
1) The sins of pride or takabbur led to shaitan being cast out from heaven. The pride prevented him from even repenting. These shaitani vices such as pride, arrogance, ego....are in ALL human beings. If I think that I am superior to another person, then I am behaving like shaitan did. I am thinking with Shaitan's mentality. Well-known scholars ....in their lectures.....have discussed the sin of pride within humans by comparing it to shaitan's sin that led to his fall from grace. The difference between us and Shaitan is that we can hopefully humble ourselves to repent.
2) About a few weeks ago, I was feeling down that a friend had achieved something that I have desired for a long time and had been working toward. I caught myself thinking that I was more deserving because I diligently did a,b,c x,y z whereas friend didn't. And I remembered that this is shaitan's mentality and I am thinking like the shaitan. So, I told myself that maybe my pride rendered my actions invalid and maybe my friend does things with more pure intentions than me. I had to check myself. So, relax Knight, because I use the same shaitan-analogy for myself too.
3) Here you are calling Muslims "hypocrites" if they flick a cigarette butt and spit in public. Let me give you an example of a hadith where a man had urinated in the masjid and people were angry, but the Prophet SAWS calmly told them pour water over it. He SAWS didn't call the man a hypocrite.....and urinating is worse than than spitting and flicking cig butts and blocking traffic outside a masjid. There is another hadith where an old man didn't know how to do wuzu....and the Prophet SAWS's grandsons educated him how to do it without making the man feel self-conscious.
Look it's admirable that you are active in taking care of the environment and that you're posting agadith that emphasize this actions, BUT, on the flip side there are also ahadith admonishing us to educate others with dignity and patience and not to rush to judge them as "hypocrites" when they make mistakes with both the environment and their ritualistic ibadat.
Imagine if we go up to someone who has carelessly flicked a cigg butt and tell them that all their ibadat (praying, fasting, etc) is hypocrisy....how would they feel? Upset, angry, hurt. There have been times when My ibadat has been judged by another action, and it has made me feel like not praying. What good did that person earn by speaking to me in a way that took me further from God rather than bring me closer to Him? That in itself is a gunnah. And one of the shaitan's ploys is to make us feel like such bad human beings that we stop doing our ibadat out of shame.
I should have been more clear. What I meant was that your action/attitude is like shaitan's...not that you are overall a shaitan. But rather the action of making people feel bad about their worship....is a strategy employed by shaitan.
It's easier to just very calmly educate someone about pollution rather than nullify all their ibadat, the former may open their eyes and heart to a good deed, the latter runs the risk of making them defensive and turning them away from a good cause. You try guiding gently. If they don't listen, the next better thing is for you to humbly pray to Allah for that person's guidance instead of corroding your own heart and soul by thinking vicious thoughts about that Muslim.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Ok, and? In the time of Nabi (SAW) not even a munaafiq would miss salat with jamat, let alone not pray at all. So there's really no point in criticizing those who pray and are deficient in other things but then whining that those who pray criticize those who commit other sins openly.
Weren't the prayer saying hypocrites driven out ? Hypocrites say prayers to deceive and manipulate.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Nope, no one was kicked out. They weren't all publicized either. A sahabi, Hudhaifa (RA) knew who they were but wouldn't disclose their names to anyone. The verdict of nifaaq can only be passed by Allah and by Him alone. Out of the two types of people you've mentioned, you can say there are more outward signs of nifaq in the people who drink, dress inappropriately, date and think there's nothing wrong with it than people who pray but may seem to have harsh behaviour. Who knows, perhaps these religious people you complain about might be more like you than you think and don't see anything wrong in calling those people munafiq because that's how they judge them.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Sometimes, the absence of prayers is also a sign of hypocrisy. Hadith states that the prayers most burdensome for the hypocrite are Isha and fajar. So, Knight, did you pray Isha last night and Fajar this morning? And if a staunch Muslim calls you a “hypocrite” for missing these two prayers, how would you feel? Pretty pissed, I bet. Even if the staunch Muslim were to back up his statement with the hadith, would you be willing to admit that, “Yes I am a hypocrite”…or would you fume even more? And if that staunch Muslim told you, “You’re a hypocrite dude, we have to drive you out from society.”…how will you react? You will RUSH to find a collect of hadith that will render the staunch Muslim a hypocrite. Now what if the staunch Muslim told you, “Look brah…, I don’t curse, I don’t spit, I don’t womanize, I dob’t drink, I recycle, I don’t block traffic, I pick up trash, I volunteer in homeless shelters, I give charity, oh and I say all my prayers especially Isha and fajr.”…how will you react, Knight? Would you then whimper a miffed, "But you are not Allah and you can’t see inside my heart and maybe I do my deeds with more sincerity and you shouldn’t judge cuz that’s just arrogant and mean you big bully…sniffff** …*snarfff 
We quote ahadith about the Prophet SAWS…and we forget the gentleness of his character. Since you’re so big on pollution, Knight…how about the woman would dump garbage on the Prophet SAWS? She threw garbage on the street. She littered!!! Blasphemy, right? The Prophet SAWS went to visit her one day when she had been MIA. The woman had been sick and he enquired about her. He didn’t give her a lecture on pollution or call her a hypocrite.