Who is the bigger sinner

[Knight30]

Re: Who is the bigger sinner

@redvelvet

Sometimes, the absence of prayers is also a sign of hypocrisy. Hadith states that the prayers most burdensome for the hypocrite are Isha and fajar. So, Knight, did you pray Isha last night and Fajar this morning? And if a staunch Muslim calls you a “hypocrite” for missing these two prayers, how would you feel? Pretty pissed, I bet. Even if the staunch Muslim were to back up his statement with the hadith, would you be willing to admit that, “Yes I am a hypocrite”…or would you fume even more? And if that staunch Muslim told you, “You’re a hypocrite dude, we have to drive you out from society.”…how will you react? You will RUSH to find a collect of hadith that will render the staunch Muslim a hypocrite. Now what if the staunch Muslim told you, “Look brah…, I don’t curse, I don’t spit, I don’t womanize, I dob’t drink, I recycle, I don’t block traffic, I pick up trash, I volunteer in homeless shelters, I give charity, oh and I say all my prayers especially Isha and fajr.”…how will you react, Knight? Would you then whimper a miffed, "But you are not Allah and you can’t see inside my heart and maybe I do my deeds with more sincerity and you shouldn’t judge cuz that’s just arrogant and mean you big bully…sniffff** …*snarfff

We quote ahadith about the Prophet SAWS…and we forget the gentleness of his character. Since you’re so big on pollution, Knight…how about the woman would dump garbage on the Prophet SAWS? She threw garbage on the street. She littered!!! Blasphemy, right? The Prophet SAWS went to visit her one day when she had been MIA. The woman had been sick and he enquired about her. He didn’t give her a lecture on pollution or call her a hypocrite.

Just the fact that rather than to stay on the topic you choose to engage in personal attacks tells me that you are unkind, good muslims are kind. I will befriend a kind non namazi rather than a person who says 1000 nwafil a day and is cruel, bitter and harsh.

[redvelvet]

Re: Who is the bigger sinner

@Knight30

Just the fact that rather than to stay on the topic you choose to engage in personal attacks tells me that you are unkind, good muslims are kind. I will befriend a kind non namazi rather than a person who says 1000 nwafil a day and is cruel, bitter and harsh.

That was not a personal attack and it was very relevant to the discussion. I merely illustrated in a dialog format that whether a staunch Muslim is the first to call one a hypocrite....or whether a more liberal Muslim is the first to call one a hypocrite...........the end result will be the same. The one being accused of hypocrisy (be it the staunch person or the lax one) will respond with "Leave the judging to Allah."

I even clarified the shaitan issue and I also ...in a positive note...said that it's admirable that you care for the environment, but that educating others can be done without judging their character and ibadat. And even if the person still doesn't care about the env, humbly praying to Allah for their guidance is better than allowing harsh judgment and pride to enter and corrode your heart. See, Knight, if I say something positive about you, you overlook that...you don't even reflect over the context in which I used a word or statement, but prefer to read it from a victim's stance.

[Knight30]

Re: Who is the bigger sinner

@redvelvet

Sometimes, the absence of prayers is also a sign of hypocrisy. Hadith states that the prayers most burdensome for the hypocrite are Isha and fajar. So, Knight, did you pray Isha last night and Fajar this morning? And if a staunch Muslim calls you a “hypocrite” for missing these two prayers, how would you feel? Pretty pissed, I bet. Even if the staunch Muslim were to back up his statement with the hadith, would you be willing to admit that, “Yes I am a hypocrite”…or would you fume even more? And if that staunch Muslim told you, “You’re a hypocrite dude, we have to drive you out from society.”…how will you react? You will RUSH to find a collect of hadith that will render the staunch Muslim a hypocrite. Now what if the staunch Muslim told you, “Look brah…, I don’t curse, I don’t spit, I don’t womanize, I dob’t drink, I recycle, I don’t block traffic, I pick up trash, I volunteer in homeless shelters, I give charity, oh and I say all my prayers especially Isha and fajr.”…how will you react, Knight? Would you then whimper a miffed, "But you are not Allah and you can’t see inside my heart and maybe I do my deeds with more sincerity and you shouldn’t judge cuz that’s just arrogant and mean you big bully…sniffff** …*snarfff

We quote ahadith about the Prophet SAWS…and we forget the gentleness of his character. Since you’re so big on pollution, Knight…how about the woman would dump garbage on the Prophet SAWS? She threw garbage on the street. She littered!!! Blasphemy, right? The Prophet SAWS went to visit her one day when she had been MIA. The woman had been sick and he enquired about her. He didn’t give her a lecture on pollution or call her a hypocrite.

I did find a good Muslim like you described, you know what I did to her?..I went down on my knee and begged her to marry me, I still can’t figure out why she said yes, but
she did, the difference is that she is humble, she is kind, she is generous, she is charitable and she is very environmentally conscious. Never advertises her prayers, never looks for attention..and NEVER IN YOUR FACE attitude. We do have our differences, actually lots of them but we resolve them by talking, (or maybe not she always gets her way.

[Captain_Obvious]

Re: Who is the bigger sinner

@Knight30

because as per Hadith a hypocrite is worse than a deficient muslim.

I just wanted to add that a munafiq as mentioned in Qur'an and Hadith refers to someone who claims to be a Muslim but doesn't have iman in his heart. At the time of Nabi (SAW), Allah revealed to him who were the munafiqs. So even the outwardly religious with supposedly harsh character could be considered as deficient Muslims, but nobody would have the right to call anyone a munafiq as only Allah knows what's in their hearts. So nobody can say they're anymore hypocrite than those who drink, date or dress inappropriately.

Also, if we can say that we shouldn't care so much about things like drinking or dating because there are so many sins that are more serious than those then why not also say that we shouldn't make a big deal about this religious family you mention, since their failure to practice conservation etc. pales in comparison to the damage being done by industries dumping all kinds of wastes into the river or cutting down the rainforest and so on?

[Knight30]

Re: Who is the bigger sinner

@Captain_Obvious

I just wanted to add that a munafiq as mentioned in Qur'an and Hadith refers to someone who claims to be a Muslim but doesn't have iman in his heart. At the time of Nabi (SAW), Allah revealed to him who were the munafiqs. So even the outwardly religious with supposedly harsh character could be considered as deficient Muslims, but nobody would have the right to call anyone a munafiq as only Allah knows what's in their hearts. So nobody can say they're anymore hypocrite than those who drink, date or dress inappropriately.

Also, if we can say that we shouldn't care so much about things like drinking or dating because there are so many sins that are more serious than those then why not also say that we shouldn't make a big deal about this religious family you mention, since their failure to practice conservation etc. pales in comparison to the damage being done by industries dumping all kinds of wastes into the river or cutting down the rainforest and so on?

Captain I think I did not provide enough clarity to my position, I like good people inside and outside, I will deal with a sinner who admits to his short comings before I will deal with a person who is evil but presents himself as a good person. Do you think that is reasonable, in other words you see is what you gets rather than two faced. Consumers provide the power to corporations, we have a choice to lower consumption and use sustainable products. At my sons team parties we all bring our own plates, paper products are not allowed.

[redvelvet]

Re: Who is the bigger sinner

Knight,

You would go stir-crazy if anyone here told you that your love for your wife is a hypocrisy. You'd be angry because you'd argue that we've never witnessed your love for your wife and you'd proceed to give us examples (as usual) of that undying love. You'd also think that we can't look inside your heart to see how you feel about her. Like all married couples, your marriage is not perfect, there must have been times you have hurt/offended your wife. You would be upset if anyone took one of those moments.....such as an argument....and used it to say that ALL the love you had for your wife was a hypocrisy.

You cannot see beyond your wife and kids and often harp about them. So, I will use them as an example and maybe you'll grasp the concept this time. If your child made a mistake/sin or has a personality flaw they need to work on, it's best to limit your lecture/guidance to only that mistake or sin. If you were to tell your child, "Beta, your mistake must mean that all your prayers up until now were a hypocrisy"....I doubt your child would feel good about that. And you may argue that your kid wouldn't have a problem.....but I bet you'd lose your marbles if any other Muslim dared to judge your kids this manner.

A person's relationship with Allah is not perfect; mistakes are made.....just as mistakes are made in your relationship with your wife and kids. Just as you wouldn't want someone using your mistakes to judge your entire relationship with a loved one, it's wrong for you to judge a person's relationship with Allah (by calling it a hypocrisy) based on their mistakes.

And if you STILL don't get it even after using your most favorite and beloved people in the world, then there's a lock on your mind cuz it's a very simple concept.

[Knight30]

Re: Who is the bigger sinner

@redvelvet

Knight,

You would go stir-crazy if anyone here told you that your love for your wife is a hypocrisy. You'd be angry because you'd argue that we've never witnessed your love for your wife and you'd proceed to give us examples (as usual) of that undying love. You'd also think that we can't look inside your heart to see how you feel about her. Like all married couples, your marriage is not perfect, there must have been times you have hurt/offended your wife. You would be upset if anyone took one of those moments.....such as an argument....and used it to say that ALL the love you had for your wife was a hypocrisy.

You cannot see beyond your wife and kids and often harp about them. So, I will use them as an example and maybe you'll grasp the concept this time. If your child made a mistake/sin or has a personality flaw they need to work on, it's best to limit your lecture/guidance to only that mistake or sin. If you were to tell your child, "Beta, your mistake must mean that all your prayers up until now were a hypocrisy"....I doubt your child would feel good about that. And you may argue that your kid wouldn't have a problem.....but I bet you'd lose your marbles if any other Muslim dared to judge your kids this manner.

A person's relationship with Allah is not perfect; mistakes are made.....just as mistakes are made in your relationship with your wife and kids. Just as you wouldn't want someone using your mistakes to judge your entire relationship with a loved one, it's wrong for you to judge a person's relationship with Allah (by calling it a hypocrisy) based on their mistakes.

And if you STILL don't get it even after using your most favorite and beloved people in the world, then there's a lock on your mind cuz it's a very simple concept.

Hmmm...so if you marry this man, he professes his undying love for you, you believe him and do everything for him, also making perfect GOL ROTI for him and all this time he is cheating on you, and was never sincere in his proclamation of love, it was but only deceit, would you find it in your heart to give him a pass because he professed deceitful love for you. Thank you for understanding that yes my family is the centre of universe for me.