Re: Who is the bigger sinner
I am not sure that in this post, you are putting a particular family down who happened to be religious, or you are putting religion down. To me it seems the latter case.
It sounded to me like he is putting down overly extreme families who are hypocritical in their words/actions. That's not the same as putting down a religion. As a muslim, I'm not offended by his comments.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Based on the hadith posted, it seems being environmentally conscious IS actually part of our faith. Respect for Allah's creation is part of being muslim, just as much as being modest in clothing.
Why would you reject that? There is a hadith on this.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Lol southie you claim others are acting innocent yet you seem to be the one that claim to have overlooked a point most others identified. Just drop it man. Getting embarrassing. And when others point it out "oh dear I didnt see that how did you". Just sit down and act your age please.
Also, I notice you claim that those on the side of religion resort to bullying and name calling tactics. However I also notice you abandon most if not all of their points and focus on playing the victim like you and your co. People see what they wanna see southie. All actions have a reason, you should be old enough to realise that. There was a reason he decided to use a religious family and not just talk about general polluting. But you just cant see that. I guess im posting longer responses because youd atleast be able to see the point. But I think I need to group you up with the lot that gets the snarky backhanded remarks.
OK cough cough. Thanks for your input. It is not that I don't want to see what you see. I just don't see it. Get over it.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Several people have already pointed out that one can be both religious and environmentally conscious and that the two are not mutually exclusive. It has also been pointed out that there is no correlation between religiosity and environmental consciousness and the fact that the religious family in the OP’s example is not environmentally conscious, does not indicate that all religious families are environmental irresponsible. Most people seem to more or less agree on these points.
What is it that people are on about and continue arguing over? 
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
You are underplaying one sin by pointing toward another sin. It's like saying don't notice my nakedness, my gossiping, but pay attention to the corruption and pollution instead. Why not say that we should strive to fulfill BOTH the rights of Allah that He's set for us as well as the rights of His creation? Why one or the other. You are doing exactly what Knight is doing....making people choose between hijab and the environment.....and using the latter act to diminish/invalidate the former, Shabaash. A more postive approach would be not to play God and invalidate one's ibadat (namaz etc) but rather to remind people to expand their remembrance of Allah from the prayers to other areas of their lives as well.
I don't buy into the concept of a physical hijab and certainly not a niqab, that's why I don't wear it. I don't wear it because I think I'm too weak to actually do it - I actually don't believe it makes you a better muslim or gives you a better chance to get into heaven, for one reason. It's simply not in the Quran as a mandated task for me to do. However, being a good person is REPEATEDLY asked of me in the Quran, so instead of worrying about dupattas and where they go and how to drape them and pin them, I worry about how I impact others.
I probably screw up on that, so I'm not perfect, but it's more important to me to be a good person and inflict the least amount of harm on life.
Plants are life. Water feeds life. Plants feed life. I am a biologist by nature. I don't believe in crapping on the world with toxins/trash/pollution in irresponsible ways.
So do I respect a family that pushes religion down others throats / judges the dresses of others / chee chee's on women like me who may wear a t-shirt and jeans and go about my way / but meanwhile throws toxins recklessly down pipes and ruins drinking water and thereby kill people without care?
No, not really. People like that are rampant in Pakistan and well...you can see the halaat in Pakistan. There is no civic sense there, and you can't blame it all on the Army.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
This reminds me of that show I was watching on ARY where the journalist showed a small factory that made local cooking oil, and how they were squeezing out any remnant fats from animal waste and then artificially processing with food coloring and chemicals to create the oil we use for our cooking. The people running that factory had beards, topis, and said they had just come back from reading namaz when they found the journalists in their compound investigating their "business". There were clear lies about how they were running the business, they even had proof that the company was using chemicals to clean up the compound to hide their real business from investigators.
So where is your Islam there?
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
The implications of excusing someone from their crimes as long as they wear a hijab or have a beard is huge. This is why groups like TTP are getting away with murder. Once upon a time, Pakistanis in their drawing rooms were cheering these murderers on.
And for this very form of thinking. That well, jee, they read namaz and they have hijabs/beards, so mashallah lets give them credit for that, nevermind how they're destroying life around us.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Here, Knight, let me answer your question and maybe it will put your heart at ease. You have determined that the person who does hijab/beard/namaz/roza/hajj but is careless with the environment is a "hypocrite." And according to Islam, hypocrites will be in the lowest level of hell.....so you can use this very point to reason to yourself that they are the BIGGER sinners. Khush? Breathe easy now.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
^ Rest assured that people who do not hurt other people with their actions and are good stewards of LIFE, including that of the environment and environmental hazards that can hurt others like those poor kids on the street who drink the water that toxins get poured into...and who wear hijab, get a ticket into heaven? Win win?
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Exactly. Be religious. And be a good steward of the environment.
How this thread got turned into a debate about religion is mind boggling. Coming back to topic - when we pollute , it's the little guy who bears the brunt. When we sit in our AC homes we dont feel climate change. It's the little guy that does. When we don't recycle the landfills get filled up. When we use plastic bags instead of cloth bags and don't recycle plastic bags guess where they end up.
That's the point of this thread. That's where the focus should be.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
They think their hijab is way more valuable than any of that hippie crap. Hijab gets you into heaven. Small kid dying of sepsis cuz he drank your crap contaminating water supplies - meh.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Bankers are the cause of all climatic pollution in this world.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
^ interestingly walk into any bank in pakistan - filled with rich maulvis.
:D
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
^ interestingly walk into any bank in pakistan - filled with rich maulvis.
:D
I was talking about bankers, not their customers.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
This reminds me of that show I was watching on ARY where the journalist showed a small factory that made local cooking oil, and how they were squeezing out any remnant fats from animal waste and then artificially processing with food coloring and chemicals to create the oil we use for our cooking. The people running that factory had beards, topis, and said they had just come back from reading namaz when they found the journalists in their compound investigating their "business". There were clear lies about how they were running the business, they even had proof that the company was using chemicals to clean up the compound to hide their real business from investigators.
So where is your Islam there?
I have seen that episode too, you must be talking about Sar-E-aam. all the cuplrits were the ones with long beards and namazis going to the masjid 5 times a day... what good is namaz when you're doing such horrific things
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
The Muslim family probably uses a lota, no trees harmed. And the cleavage family probably uses toilet paper to wipe their ass, which means more trees are cut down. You do the math.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
^good point.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
OK cough cough. Thanks for your input. It is not that I don't want to see what you see. I just don't see it. Get over it.
Yeah you're right southie. I realise that I was talking to expecting more intelligence. That mistake was mine. I realised it when I was going back over the thread and found this little asinine gem from you
Some of the folks up in arms abt OP are the same ones who have yet to post in any environmentally connected threads. No input. Suddenly they get interested in the environment. Because two families were compared. One religious. One not. K Instead of recognizing that such thought experiments may teach us something positive - that our inaction on environment is harmful to society - they attack the messenger for asking a question that is a fair one. Which is a greater harm. ** **Come on people. If u r truly interested in the environment, contribute something to those threads. Else u have zero credibility on this issue.
Since RV brought up.religion in science let me add : the folks who came to the science thread when religion injected made zero effort to contribute to science e part of discussion. Just as they contribute to zero part of environmental discussion in this thread.
When I read that part I realised my error in trying to appease a level of intellect that is in fact, not present.
Carry on Southie. Your constant showcasing of your debilitating ability to process and synthesise is becoming entertaining now.
Oh do I need to add no offense or something? Lest I be called a bully?
Cuz when you and co. say it it's expressing liberal views. When we do it you all seem to spout croc tears and go on a reporting spree.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
OP just asked a simple question, who do you think is the bigger sinner? instead of focusing on his/her post, everyone is taking it as an attack to their religion, which is not what he did at all. he/she did not say that all religious people pollute or that religion causes one to become a bad human being. he simply stated ONE example and is asking whoyou think is the bigger sinner? why is everyone ganging on him for being 'anti-religious' and on others who are simply trying to explain this exact thing? whats with this extreme paranoia?
The example PCG gave was a very good one, where all these religious folks are making cooking oil out of dead animals and selling it to the public.
Re: Who is the bigger sinner
Yeah you're right southie. I realise that I was talking to expecting more intelligence. That mistake was mine. I realised it when I was going back over the thread and found this little asinine gem from you
When I read that part I realised my error in trying to appease a level of intellect that is in fact, not present.
Carry on Southie. Your constant showcasing of your debilitating ability to process and synthesise is becoming entertaining now.
Oh do I need to add no offense or something? Lest I be called a bully?
Cuz when you and co. say it it's expressing liberal views. When we do it you all seem to spout croc tears and go on a reporting spree.
I am absolutely confused where you are going with this one. Can you please point out exactly where I was out of line on my quoted post re the science example.
let me break it down for you.
There are a few folks who came to the science forum and started discussing religion. They had zero Contribution to make on scientific topics. I used that example here. That those who came here have contributed zero to the environmental part of discussion.
re bullying reference if you can't see the pattern of a clique going around trying to silence people by getting personal that is ok. I see it. You dont. Let's leave it at that shall we?
As for level of intellect, we all make do with what we have. That you are more intelligent than I am is of no threat. In fact that's the way it ought to be. Each generation better than previous.
It's funny that recently I happened to see a favorable post on Modi election copied on a relatives fb. Some of the comments from Hindus were disgusting. Stating modi got rid of terrorists. When muslims protested they were shouted down. Called terrorists. There I was the outsider "fighting several fights" against those hateful Hindus.
So whatever the level of intellect, one should be fair to best of one's ability. Go ahead with ur taunts. But that's simply how I react to any situation.