Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
that they were seething against the tribal mullah types and ould kick their asses soon? I agree.
one day these aytollahs would be dragged in the streets by the iranian ppl who are sick of their narrow minded extremist views. if ppl in Pakistan can do the same with ou militant mullahs like sandwich sami and qazi and there clones, that would be fantastic.
Those Ayatollahs in Iran are far more progressive than the illiterate hairy mullahs that Sharaabi and his ilk love.
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
Almost every one here is trying to see things through “some” mirror…I am not an exception…People here are purposely or unknowingly looking at things in a parochial way as if Islamic extremism is an isolated phenomenon associated only with and invention only of the poor people of FATA …and that Arab and Pakistani Islamic nationalism, Pan-Islam, Akhwanul Muslimin, Islamic Jahad, Islamic bomb, “Pakistan Ka Mathlab Kia La Ilaha Ilalah”, “Jihad Fi Sabililah”, “Pakistan an ideological state”, West, etc. have nothing to do with it.
Why not run a thread “Genesis of Islamic Radicalism…South Asian Context”?
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
Mr. Fraudia,
I think Iranians are more dignified then Pakis in the eyes of West. At least they have not succumbed to Western gods on earth. They are the only Muslims who talk on equal terms with Uncle Sam, Jews and the other aggressors. Iranian respects their Ayatollahs, as their spiritual leaders who are more liberals and listen and act to wishes of their people unlike Paki dictators. Other factor is Oil, so they are in much, much better position then Pakistan irrespective of that they are still black listed by West.
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
until the mid 70s, pak had a lot more in common with turkey than with arabistan. until bhutto imposed prohibition, sharab was openly served in hotels and by all accounts karachi had a pretty swinging night life with bars and night clubs forming an essential part of the karachi social scene. in fact with civil war destroying beruit, people began to speak of karachi as the party capital of islamic world. bhutto built a casino on clifton beach to attract arabs and their petro-dollars. unfortunately things did not go according to plan and the arabs that came to pak had another agenda than the one planned by bhutto.
so what happened? why did pak change from party central to jihad central in a very short span of time? answer: a number of events some what interconnected which changed things to the extent that it would be hard for someone from the 1970s to recognise pak today. those events were:
pna agitation against bhutto driven by religious parties calling for implementation of nizam-ay-mustafa. to appease the mullahs, bhutto went on an islamisation drive including prohibition and making jumma the day of sabbath.
bhutto's appointment of general zia as army chief. until that point, senior leadership of army trained by the british was largely secular. when zia came to power he moved to implement islamic agenda in which he was assisted by islamic parties. with no internet and satellite tv in the 80's, islam became the only game in town. people opposed to islamisation were powerless cause islamic parties had dunda.
soviet invasion of afghanistan which resulted in pak army making use of jihadis to tie down the russkies in afghanistan
rise of dubai chalo. oil crises of 70's caused economic boom in arabia which attracted lower tubqa from pak. this tubqa began to copy arabic customs such as hijab
iranian revolution which caused further jihadi fervor in awam.
i would argue that had bhutto appointed a secular army chief, pak would not be in the clutches of jihadis. khair whats past is past. to restore our past glory, i think jihadi leadership from the army will have to be purged which is why musharraf wants to retain control of the army. too bad he wont have the opportunity largely due to the dumbness of our elites and chalaaki of jehadi supporters who can think much far ahead than the people who oppose their agenda.
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
Mr. Fraudia,
I think Iranians are more dignified then Pakis in the eyes of West. At least they have not succumbed to Western gods on earth. They are the only Muslims who talk on equal terms with Uncle Sam, Jews and the other aggressors. Iranian respects their Ayatollahs, as their spiritual leaders who are more liberals and listen and act to wishes of their people unlike Paki dictators. Other factor is Oil, so they are in much, much better position then Pakistan irrespective of that they are still black listed by West.
Farid sahib, you apparently have never been to Iran or not been in contact with Iranians. Iranians hate/abhor their ayatollahs with a passion. I have not met a single Iranian who have a few good words for their religious leaders. You have no idea about the level of corruption and hypocrisy of their leaders. Their religious leaders have exploited the name of Islam to remain in power and fill up their own pockets to such an extreme extent that now almost all their educated youth is trying to distant themselves away from the religion. Almost all equally advise never to let any religious party come in power, otherwise all the criminality of the religious parties will get a divine cover.
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
every pakistani citizen who does not actively opposing religiouso and jihadis, or passively supporting them is to blame. In fact what is sowed has to be reaped before anything better can be sowed.
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
There's a fashion of blaming zia-ul-haq post-death for every failure of Pakistan- Zia did his best to bring Islam back to the country which was on her way to become a modern(confused) and a failed nation like India. The core of Islamic life is to lead a simple life and not any advanced sort of stuff- what zia did was to made us aware of that.
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
There's a fashion of blaming zia-ul-haq post-death for every failure of Pakistan-
it is impossible to blame zia for all of pakistan's failures...there are so many of them that it takes a lot more than that one screwball to have caused it.
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
it is impossible to blame zia for all of pakistan's failures...there are so many of them that it takes a lot more than that one screwball to have caused it.
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
Mr. Fraudia,
Isn't this ‘axis of evil’ supply oil to Pakistan? e.g. Diesel and that Diesel/gasoline is sold on discount rates in NWFP/Baluchistan by Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehaman aka Maulana Diesel?
Isn't this "axis of evil” is also a buyer of Nuclear Technology from Pakistan's top scientist Dr. Qadeer Khan?
Isn't Pakistan is pursuing Pipeline project from this 'axis of evil' to India via Pakistan?
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
Mr. Fraudia,
Isn't this ‘axis of evil’ supply oil to Pakistan? e.g. Diesel and that Diesel/gasoline is sold on discount rates in NWFP/Baluchistan by Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehaman aka Maulana Diesel?
Isn't this "axis of evil” is also a buyer of Nuclear Technology from Pakistan's top scientist Dr. Qadeer Khan?
Isn't Pakistan is pursuing Pipeline project from this 'axis of evil' to India via Pakistan?
It is about the "dignity" Iran "supposedly has" in the "West". How did it end up as trade between Iran and Pakistan? You do seem to twist around your views....
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
Iranians dignified in the eyes of the west? :)
they are dignifid enough to be part of the axis of evil :)
With all due respect, that's an American idiocy the rest of the world simply wants no part of. It's one thing to decry the Ayatollahs as idiots, but please do save some of your venom for the neo-con facists that otherwise known as your leadership...not to mention the current recipiants of your tax dollars.
:)
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
Almost every one here is trying to see things through "some" mirror...I am not an exception...People here are purposely or unknowingly looking at things in a parochial way as if Islamic extremism is an isolated phenomenon associated only with and invention only of the poor people of FATA ...and that Arab and Pakistani Islamic nationalism, Pan-Islam, Akhwanul Muslimin, Islamic Jahad, Islamic bomb, "Pakistan Ka Mathlab Kia La Ilaha Ilalah", "Jihad Fi Sabililah", "Pakistan an ideological state", West, etc. have nothing to do with it.
Why not run a thread "Genesis of Islamic Radicalism...South Asian Context"?
Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
I think the national geographic fails to discover the origins of such a cult like culture with such a ruthless and ultra aggressive stance. It goes back about 1400 years ago, when the Prophets family and friends were slaughtered by the "righteous,"and "the muslims."
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
There's a fashion of blaming zia-ul-haq post-death for every failure of Pakistan- Zia did his best to bring Islam back to the country which was on her way to become a modern(confused) and a failed nation like India. The core of Islamic life is to lead a simple life and not any advanced sort of stuff- what zia did was to made us aware of that.
Where are you studying? If you believe in him, why you choose not to lead his simple life.
The amount of aid Pakistan received during Zia's time was astounding. Where did all that money go? The present fanatic fitna is his creation, because he was a dictator. He created this and brought militancy in MQM to counter the power of PPP, which was and is a major political party in Pakistan. Like the Ayatoullah's of Iran, he used the cover of religion to forward his own agenda.
I think the national geographic fails to discover the origins of such a cult like culture with such a ruthless and ultra aggressive stance. It goes back about 1400 years ago, when the Prophets family and friends were slaughtered by the "righteous,"and "the muslims."
Oh, so you admit that the shias of kufa betrayed hussain?
Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?
just because I despise the iranian ayotollahs does not mean that I am a supporter of neocons as far as my 'venon' for the neocons you can see plenty of it in the world affairs forum.. so nice try to take a personal dig there, but still amatuerish. not that your tax dollars and not helping kill ppl in afghanistan after all the canadian presence is there, plus your employer is paying taxes to uncle sam as well and thus the recipients are the same neocons. lets both direct some venom there then, shall we? :)
Go through prior threads, and you'll find these sentiments admitted to. Of course, Canadians aren't doing much in comparison, so my guilt is likewise not that great. Now come on, your use of the term "Axis of evil" was what was amateruish..if not childesh (as almost all neo-con rhetoric is...)
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As far as other perspctives of the west, just go back and see what was being said about iran when that ahmedinijad talked about wiping israel off the map.
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Interestingly enough, that was attributed to the goof himself...and so for most of the world, as of today, it's business as usual with Iran. Time will tell if they can actually capitalize the willingness of others to do business with them...regardless of what America thinks.
As for being more dignified, perhaps not...but certainly more formidable.