Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

Uh, you really think that Iran under the Ayatollahs is comparable to Mullah Umar's Taliban?

You must be mistaken. I rather live under Khomeini at his worst than to live under the rule of Mullah Umar, Mullah Dadullah, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and Usamah bin Laden.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

99% of suicide bombers in Pakistan are either Punjabis or Pashtun. You can fight it out with Punjabis who is the most jihadi of you lot. I don't care of you're Indic or Incan, just lay of the jihadi terrorism.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

LOD..we all are muslims..neither pushtuns..nor hindustani..nor punjabi etc..plz..keep this thing in mind...

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

It's liberal compared to the Taliban.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?


I think that was the Deobandi ideology of islam started way back in 18th century in place called deoband in bihar.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

Well said. Jihad-ul-Haq gets most of the credit for creating and implementing jihadi culture, and successive govts. didn't do much to tame it. In fact, BB, NS and Mushrraf all used jihadis as their instruments of state policy until 9/11. Now, this Frankenstein monster is out of the state's control and its taking the country str8 down b/c of idiotic policies of successive governments.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

Jihadis pimp their services to the highest bidders. If Gen. Zia offered money, Jihadis did his dirty deeds. Now Arabs and Tajiks are offering money, so everyone from Mullah Omar to Mullah Baitoo are giving away their homes and women to Arabs. Tomorrow Ruskies will give money and the same Jihadis will open their homes and women to them. So the story goes.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

to answer the question: military estabishment

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

No, it started in 19th Century. Deoband Madrassa was established by Mulana Mohammad Qasim Nanutwi and Mulana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi, both of Hindustani origin, in 1860s. Both of these were the disciples of another Hindustani Mullah known as Mualana Imdadullah Muhajir Makki.

In the contemporary Musilm world Hindustan/South Asia has been one of the hotbeds of radical Islamic ideologies.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

The modern day deoband madrassahs in India are very very different from the ones in Pakistan.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

Thanks LOD and Zakk for enlightenment on the subject.

Same military establishment is now clearing the mess it had created more than two decades ago. Isn’t this all connected with $s. $s was coming in then, $s are coming in now for cleansing of Jehadi culture. It means that military establishment is more concerned about its own interests rather than interests of Pakistan.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

I agree. Bringing in Jinnah's vision for Pakistan is almost a moot point now. Nobody bothers to be a good muslim citizen, as per Jinnah's vision, so how do you expect the citizens of Pakistan to care for any of his other dreams?

The fact of the matter is that currently, Pakistanis themselves are supporting anything that is remotely anti-American. In the process, they're unknowingly giving free license to the radicals in the country to do what they want. Whether it is to indoctrinate muslim kids with hatred and militant culture in madrassas (and I dont care what anyone says - it does happen - the things you learn in those madrassas set you very far apart from muslims who learn a more balanced Islam by self-research and more open-minded teachers - I know of muslim kids being raised to not talk to females at all, and to hate anything western or Amreican in Pakistan), or whether it is encouraging a close-minded culture where thinking on one's own feet is discouraged.

Pakistanis have also contributed to this problem by increasing class divides. The elite have a stick up their behind. They DO NOT want to be equated with the street trash in their own country, which flies against the very basic principles of egalitarianism in Islam. You are no different from any other muslim, just because of the money you make and the clothes you wear. But the increasing class divide has driven the poor to send their kids to madrassas for an education, and the poor have been the biggest victims of growing extremism in Pakistan.

We've created this problem. Not some dude with a pencil thin mustache or any one other individiual. We create this problem when we look down upon each other and say "I'm better than you because I went to Karachi Grammar, and you went to a poor man's masjid to learn your alif, beh's. I'm better, because I know English and you don't. And damned are you to ever learn it".

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

There is no significant difference. Both have an orthodox view of life trying to confront modern values with medieval type Muslim social and moral behaviour and using Jehad to impose a religious order.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

You know nothing about the original Deoband movement.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

I wish Pakistanis were more like Iranians.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

[quote]
just like we dont see many arab extremists from bahrain, qatar or UAE but we see scores of them in saudi arabia, yemen etc.
[/quote]

One of the 9/11 hijackers was from UAE.

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

Zakk is an apologetic Pashtun trying to be accepted as a "Patriotic Pakistani" on this forum...so his apologetic comment about Deoband.

Anyhow, taking it in totality, there is nothing civilized about an ideology that sanctions cancubinism, polygymy, and harems ... if you are in any doubt please read "Bahisht-i-Zewar" of Mualana Ashraf Ali Thanavi, one of your Hindustani ancestors, to see the degree of subversion that he has preached...According to him a woman should observe "pardah" even from her brother-in-laws and must not be literate beyond knowing some priliminary arithmetic so as to keep an account of daily household expenses...Moreover, he says, knowledge of geography even about the streets of her Muhallah is dangerous for a woman that may spoil her character...He also ascribes some natural traits to her personality e.g. she is by nature "makkar"...

This is the enlightened Islam that your Hindustani ancestor Mualvi Ashraf Thanavi preached...What about Syed Ahmad Barelvi that tried to establish a theocracy...Mualana Shabir Ahmad Usmani that conceived "Qarar Dad i Maqasad" and so laid down a permanent foundation for the theocratic interpretation of Pakistani state ideology...Another Hindustani Mullah, Mualana Muadudi established the most radically fundamentalist political party...the Hindustani version of Akhwanul Muslimin (Muslim brotherhood)...

Interestingly, all these Mullahs sought foreign ancestral roots to escape the stigma of an untouchable past ...e.g. Imdadullah Muhajir Makki claimed he was a Farooqi (descendent of Hadrath Umar Farooq), Mulana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi said he was a Saddiqi, Mualana Muadudi claimed he was a Hashami, ...etc. They needed Islam to give them a sense of distinct identity in a world overwhelmed by Hindu culture...

There is nothing enlightening about what these Hindustani prophets of Pan-Islam, Jehad, Khalafat, etc. preached, my friend...

True Swara is an evil but only socialy sanctioned and so out of practice today (about swara I can claim that with full responsibility)...but what about Jahad, harems, cancubines (unlimited women for extravagent sex), etc. that your ancestors have religiously sanctioned with corroboration from Hadiths and Quran...Why don't you read the many "fatawas" written by these Mullahs to enlighten yourself? (fattawa Rashidai is one of the fatawa).

As for FATA, that is just a cover for what is the agencies and military establishment of Pakistan doing...As long as there is terror, Mushi togethor with his army stays in power...besides they have other ambitions...i.e. to liberate Kashmir, to extend influence of Pakistan to Central Asia, to exploit Central Asian markets and have a share in the riches of oil pipeline from Caspian, to install a Pakistan friendly Islamic govt in Kabul, to make Pakistan a foremost Muslim power in alliance with Saudi Wahabism, etc.

One thing more...On the Afghan side of the Durand Line you can find hardly 10 madrassas...This madrassa/Islam business has flourished in Pakistan only thanks the identity crisis of Pakistani state and South Asian Muslims....and influence of Urdu-Hindi...

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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

Thank-you, Dinosaur, for sharing your info on the misogyny of so-called "revered" scholars of our subcontinent. I don't think the present is all that much different. Well, I mean, I think women are more intelligent and educated now not to succomb to joining some hairy Pakistani's "harem".

Haha. Come to think of it, ever since women in the subcontinent have gotten more educated...that's really put a damper on the sexual prowess of many of these maulvis...hasn't it?

chuckles

~~Guess A Country or Place By...~~
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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

I agree the deobandi approach is conservative in nature and often militant. However the growth in militant madrassah education stems from the 1980's. I posted Tariq Rehmans research on it sometime back. To my knowledge there were only 3 madrassahs in NWFP as late as the early 70's.

Writers like Kathy Gannon have also written in her book of the curriculum that children in Afghan refugee camps were taught and how (with American support) Afghan secularists and nationalists were sidelined.

It's a classic frankenstein story; throw in a state which allowed a vaccum to develop in education and healthcare, marginalised and discredited political parties and you have a disastrous mix.

~~Guess A Country or Place By...~~
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Re: Who Is Responsible For Present Day Jehadi Culture?

thank you for your summary judgement on myself :halo:

you are looking at things through a certain ideological view while I don’t dispute some of your facts I do dispute the bias that you see them with..if one is arguing facts then one should not see them through an ethnic or idoelogical prism.

~~Guess A Country or Place By...~~