If you don't make partners with that Supreme being, then you are not far from "believer". The "set of rules" may be different for you or me, but since "we" believe as Quran is the last of books revealed by God so I take that as my yard-stick to see the definition of "believer". And as per that book, a believer is one who believes in "one God, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, day of Judgement". God regards "making partners" as biggest crime (I think Quran also says its unforgivable if one dies with that belief).
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Understood. You have told me,
-more than one messenger came
-anyone who believes in one God, angels, his Book (several messengers means several Books) day of judgement and rules is a believer
I believe in the above.
Yet you say I am 'not far from a believer'. How do I cover the remaining distance to becoming a 'believer'?
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*Originally posted by karina: *
....
Yet you say I am 'not far from a believer'. How do I cover the remaining distance to becoming a 'believer'?
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You have to believe that Mohammed, Essa (Jesus), Moses, Abraham etc were Prophets of God, and the books Quran, Bible (original), Torah (Testament?) were revealed by God.
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You have to believe that Mohammed, Essa (Jesus), Moses, Abraham etc were Prophets of God, and the books Quran, Bible (original), Torah (Testament?) were revealed by God.
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hmmmm....i beleive i believe...
and all prophets are sent in Middle East!!!
You have to believe that Mohammed, Essa (Jesus), Moses, Abraham etc were Prophets of God, and the books Quran, Bible (original), Torah (Testament?) were revealed by God.
Note: "Believe" is not merely "saying" it.
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Noted: I have to convert and assure the Pope, maulvi, rabbi....of my intentions.
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*Originally posted by karina: *
Noted: I have to convert and assure the Pope, maulvi, rabbi....of my intentions.
Thank you for your patience.
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I don't know what you intended to say by "convert and assure", but you don't really have to tell anyone (molvi, rabbi, pope) that you are a Muslim in order to be one. God knows it. Pronouncing "kalima" in public (mosques or other conventions) is used for "announcement" purposes, God does not really need any evidences to know who is and who is not Muslim / believer.
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*Originally posted by rvikz: *
personally i dont believe any human born on this earth have comunicated with god and no human have magical powers.
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every human being has opinion, you have one, I have one.
Someone said it, "everybody got arse, everybody got opinion".
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
My understanding is that in Quran, the word "Kaafir" is differentiated from the word "Ahle-Kitaab". Christians and Jews are referred to as "Ahle-Kitaab" (People of the Book) and not Kaafir.
People who do not believe in the divine books (other than Muslims, Christians or Jews) then basically fall into various types.
There are the "Mushrikeen"... those who make partners into Allah. For example if someone prays to Sun or Fire or Moon or believes in multiple Gods of various powers, they will be called "Mushrikeen", as a whole.
The word "Kaafir" is basically used for those who "Reject the Truth". It is used for those to whom the message of Islam was delivered, they understood the message but decided not to embrace the truth - which is Islam. This word is neither used for Ahle-Kitaab nor is used for those to whom the message was never delivered. More importantly, only Allah (God Almighty) knows what is in a person's heart or whether he has embraced the truth or not, so, my understanding is, that only Allah can label someone as Kaafir. Like He did in the Quran, where he addressed the people of Mekkah as Kuffar - plural of Kaafir (those who rejected the truth). Those people believed in many gods, were given the message of Islam, understood the message and the seriousness of the message, some accepted the message, some didn't. Those who did not were called "Kuffar".
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Dear Faisal,
I have always thought of myself as Kaffir.
But I had thought the meaning of Kaffir as:
People who do not understand the muslim direction of belief in Good, and/or People who have been introduced to the muslim ideals but have not yet accepted the muslim path to God.
Myself I think I am kaffir because I accept that all peoples are of God, that believe in God, whatever religion they practise.
**Originally posted by soul: *
did egyptians considered him a prophet? *
Yes. Why would that put a doubt on "Prophet in Egypt"? Or you just don't want to believe there was a prophet in Egypt?
*only samples in M.E. would readily beleive, mortals hold conversations with GOD in caves and on hilltops. *
May be Quran mentioned prophets mainly from mid-east because thats where Quran was revealed so people might relate....
**Why did god skipped them?
Anyway, so you wont have problems beleiving that Vishnu and his various 9 avtaars were all prophets....sent by your god! **
If Vishnu, Avtaars had similar teachings as by other prophets, then they might as well have been prophets, who knows? Did they ask you to pray to God or to pray anyone you like?
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Yes. Why would that put a doubt on "Prophet in Egypt"? Or you just don't want to believe there was a prophet in Egypt?
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no, no egyptian was smitten by the concept of prophet...they still countinued to be animists....
If a prophet from egypt is mentioned in Koran, than why not prophets of australia, china, india etc??? btw, i've not heard of any]
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May be Quran mentioned prophets mainly from mid-east because thats where Quran was revealed so people might relate....
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Agreed, so koran was meant for ME region....it discussed issues and dresscode related to ppl there....there was nothing universal about it. Fine!
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If Vishnu, Avtaars had similar teachings as by other prophets, then they might as well have been prophets, who knows? Did they ask you to pray to God or to pray anyone you like?
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They asked us to use our head, and be answerable to one own self.
Does that match teachings of your prophets....or were they breaking the rules?
But Holy Quran itself is saying that prophets and messengers were sent to all the places on this earth.
Read Surah AL-Nalh verse 37:
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[16:37] And We did raise among every people a Messenger with the teaching, 'Worship Allah and shun the Evil one.' Then among them were some whom Allah guided and among them were some who became deserving of ruin. So travel through the earth and see what was the end of those who treated the prophets as liars!
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Holy Quran never said that prophets are sent only to the people of Middle East.
and Holy Quran also claims that this book is for the whole mankind and the Holy Prophet is the messenger for whole mankind as mentioned in Surah Al-Nisa verse 80:
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Whatever of good comes to thee is from Allah; and whatever of evil befalls thee is from thyself. And We have sent thee as a Messenger to all mankind. And sufficient is Allah as a Witness.
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So if you are going to believe Holy Quran then you have to believe that it is a book for the whole mankind and not alone for the people of Arabia.
There are two kind of ppl, the gullible and the non-gullible....
the gullible would beleive any story told to them from any book...
the nongullibles, dont beleive tales too easily, now that explains why non-gullibles were disliked by prophets ....hmmmm!!
The Koran:
"Sight perceives Him not. But He perceives men's sights; for He is the knower of secrets , the Aware."
Kena Upanishad:
"That which cannot be seen by the eye but through which the eye itself sees, know That to be Brahman (God) and not what people worship here (in the manifested world)."
A simplified meaning of both the above verses reads:
God is one and that He is beyond man's sensory experience