who is a Kaffir?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Who is a ‘Kaffir’ according to your holy scriptures?

The one who does not beleive in One God
[like hindus, pagaans, animists]

The one who believes in one God, but dose not call him Allah.
Like jews, christians, zorastrians, buddhists]

The one who dosenot believe in any religion, but believes in God?[agnostists]

The one who dose not associates him/herself with any religion or God?
[during 7th century there were no atheists, everyone beleived in something or the other as a ‘supreme being’…The question of not believing in Supreme being never arose]

2

A Kafir is someone who doesn’t believe in Allah :swt:…:flower1:

Now, don’t tell me I never taught you anything…:hug:

3

My understanding is that in Quran, the word "Kaafir" is differentiated from the word "Ahle-Kitaab". Christians and Jews are referred to as "Ahle-Kitaab" (People of the Book) and not Kaafir.

People who do not believe in the divine books (other than Muslims, Christians or Jews) then basically fall into various types.

There are the "Mushrikeen"... those who make partners into Allah. For example if someone prays to Sun or Fire or Moon or believes in multiple Gods of various powers, they will be called "Mushrikeen", as a whole.

The word "Kaafir" is basically used for those who "Reject the Truth". It is used for those to whom the message of Islam was delivered, they understood the message but decided not to embrace the truth - which is Islam. This word is neither used for Ahle-Kitaab nor is used for those to whom the message was never delivered. More importantly, only Allah (God Almighty) knows what is in a person's heart or whether he has embraced the truth or not, so, my understanding is, that only Allah can label someone as Kaafir. Like He did in the Quran, where he addressed the people of Mekkah as Kuffar - plural of Kaafir (those who rejected the truth). Those people believed in many gods, were given the message of Islam, understood the message and the seriousness of the message, some accepted the message, some didn't. Those who did not were called "Kuffar".

4

So atleast as per the holy book, its was only for Paggans and not the rest...since the message was not delivered to rest of us in the first place.

And since pagaans and its culture is almost wipped out....the term has lost its relevence....hmmm...interesting!

thanx

5

Soul, it is referring to pagans in Arabia. Pagans in East Asia and the subcontinent were solving quadratic equations and had a sweage system unlike the pagans in the M.E.

6

Just curious, when you guys, the two of you, use the term "pagaan", what do you mean? Is there any characteristic of "pagaan" in terms who they worshiped etc?

To the best of my knowledge, the arabs in Mecca, prior to Islam, had multiple gods (each for a different trait probabaly) and they prayed to them. How was that different from hindus or other religions at that time (excluding christians and jews)?

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Just curious, when you guys, the two of you, use the term "pagaan", what do you mean? Is there any characteristic of "pagaan" in terms who they worshiped etc?

[/QUOTE]
Ditto.... I want to know more about the term 'pagaan'.
-Salman

8

There is no difference in the simplistic usage of the term 'pagan'. You people of hthe book are so silly. :)

One thing tho...what is "jahilya". Is it a time or place?

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Soul, it is referring to pagans in Arabia. Pagans in East Asia and the subcontinent were solving quadratic equations and had a sweage system unlike the pagans in the M.E.
[/QUOTE]

it doesnt matter if they were landing rockets on the moon....
they'd still remain KAAFIRs....

anyone who rejects the Islamic faith, in whole or part, is a kaafir....
there is no distinction between ahl-e-kitaab or mushrikeen, they all inclusively fall under the kaafir category....

in a way u can say its opposite of mo'min....

literally it means "one who hides"....
in Islam, in Quran, it means one who rejects Islamic faith....

10

Now this is what i call a :smokin: post. It could be one of my best saved posts. :). I am with you Mughal Bhai

-Salman

11

[QUOTE]
Just curious, when you guys, the two of you, use the term "pagaan", what do you mean? Is there any characteristic of "pagaan" in terms who they worshiped etc?

To the best of my knowledge, the arabs in Mecca, prior to Islam, had multiple gods (each for a different trait probabaly) and they prayed to them. How was that different from hindus or other religions at that time (excluding christians and jews)?
[/QUOTE]

Me too Just curious to know, if God was so much against Pagans and Hindus why did he tolerated them for 5,000 yrs?

And even now, right under his nose, hindus still continue to worship whoso ever they want...inspite of that, they prosper some of the richest guys in the world are Hindus] and their religion is still the third largest in the world!! Queer!!!

Besides Faizal,

Paganism had its own culture and tradition, nothing in common with Hindus.
Yes, they did have number of dieties...like most of the civilizations of those days....And i dont see what is wrong or evil in that....anyway

If you get time just google through paganism....and see how much of it is aborbed in your religion....its interesting!!

Like Pagan new year-Solasis [sun god] was celebrated on 25th dec by lighting wax candles...when they converted to christianity...'solaisis' was converted into Jesus birthday celebration...and they still continued to celebrate that day in the same way, only the significance changed.

Likewise lot of their practises were adopted by islamists too...

Find out yourself....Esp. the name of their 'MOON GOD'...GleeEEEZ !! i would love to see ya face!!!

[QUOTE]
You people of hthe book are so silly.
[/QUOTE]

Haha....gud one!!

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *

it doesnt matter if they were landing rockets on the moon....
they'd still remain KAAFIRs....

anyone who rejects the Islamic faith, in whole or part, is a kaafir....
there is no distinction between ahl-e-kitaab or mushrikeen, they all inclusively fall under the kaafir category....

in a way u can say its opposite of mo'min....

literally it means "one who hides"....
in Islam, in Quran, it means one who rejects Islamic faith....
[/QUOTE]

are you well known islamic scholar ? why dont you quote islamic
scholars instead misrepresnting islam

13

My understanding is that Kaafir refers to disbelievers, which includes pagans, polytheists, atheists, agnostics, people of the previous scriptures and others who reject Islam after having been introduced to it.

If somebody called me or some other Muslim a Kaafir (disbeliever) naturally we would be offended because our religion and belief is very dear to us and rejecting it is misguidance but I don’t see why the Kufaar (plural of Kaafir) would feel offended by this term, why’s it such an issue?

14

i never seen a muslim using the word .

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

are you well known islamic scholar ? why dont you quote islamic
scholars instead misrepresnting islam
[/QUOTE]

atleast i'm more close to being an islamic scholar than yourself so i guess i'll have more voice to my opinion.... :)

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *

atleast i'm more close to being an islamic scholar than yourself so i guess i'll have more voice to my opinion.... :)
[/QUOTE]

i know how it is practiced in streets in real life situations rather than learning from book.

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

Me too Just curious to know, if God was so much against Pagans and Hindus why did he tolerated them for 5,000 yrs?

And even now, right under his nose, hindus still continue to worship whoso ever they want...inspite of that, they prosper some of the richest guys in the world are Hindus] and their religion is still the third largest in the world!! Queer!!!

[/QUOTE]

Very valid point and similar to one I asked recently, but recieved no answer.

Someone mentioned why should the word kaffir be offensive- let's say it's not. But I'd like to understand the thought process behind labelling people who have rejected the message as kaffirs.

I cannot believe God would mess up so badly that first he would allow all sorts of religions to flower then come up with the perfect one and promise hell and damnation if anyone didn't convert to it.

It seems to me that the universe functions under one given law that does not change for anyone. No one single race has displayed signs of being the 'chosen one'. What then is the difference between being a muslim or christian? The afterlife is an abstract and unproven idea, so I'm not interested in hearing that the real fruits of being a person of the book will be revealed in paradise. I just want to know what muslims think of God being partial to a particular religion which exists only on earth as far as we know (don't forget there is life on other galaxies too).

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

i know how it is practiced in streets in real life situations rather than learning from book.
[/QUOTE]

streets r not the best source of learning....
and ppl on the streets dont really represent the real thing....

u can find millions of 'muslims' flocking at the 'urs' and the 'mazaars' and if u 'learn' from them that this is what Islam teaches then all i can tell u is that u have selected a very wrong method to learn things....

19

***Originally posted by soul: *
Me too Just curious to know, if God was so much against Pagans and Hindus why did he tolerated them for 5,000 yrs?

And even now, right under his nose, hindus still continue to worship whoso ever they want...inspite of that, they prosper some of the richest guys in the world are Hindus] and their religion is still the third largest in the world!! Queer!!!**

Religion does not care whether its followers get trillion dollar or "0" dollar. Its matter of "faith". You can live in 'heaven-like' place all your life and stay non-Muslim, but that does not mean you'll get same life-style in "next-life". "Next life" is the most important life as that is considered "never ending one". Thats what our (Muslim/Christian/Jews) belief is, that once you die the story is not over, you wait till then "Judgement Day" and then go to "Hell" or "Heaven" according to your deeds/beliefs.

If a person had "0" dollars all his life, but was a believer of God in faith and in "deeds", he will get "Heaven" for lets say 1,000,000 years (just for comparison purpose). But if a person had $1 trillion dollars but was a disbeliever... he enjoyed this world's life for 80 years only but will go to heaven for 1,000,000 years. Now, who is the winner?

God sends his Messengers to send His messages, its upto people to accept or reject. If a civilisation survived 5000 years without obeying to God, it does not mean that the civilisation won against God.

20

**Originally posted by karina: *
...
Someone mentioned why should the word kaffir be offensive- let's say it's not. But I'd like to understand the thought process behind labelling people who have rejected the message as kaffirs. *

How would a religion or person "refer" to the other group? You have to name them, right? So person who is your "friend" is "friend", and who is not friend is "not-friend", right? The believer is "believer", the one who rejected message is "kafir". Simple, isn't it?

*I cannot believe God would mess up so badly that first he would allow all sorts of religions to flower then come up with the perfect one and promise hell and damnation if anyone didn't convert to it. *

Its not God "messing" things up. Its human being not understanding things. God kept sending messengers, human kind accepted/rejected them. After accepting, they astrayed a few hundred/thousand years down the road. Astraying is not "God messing up", its us.

It seems to me that the universe functions under one given law that does not change for anyone. No one single race has displayed signs of being the 'chosen one'. What then is the difference between being a muslim or christian?

If universe changed its behavior for "chosen one", then the "Sign" will be quite obvious. Faith is in "unseen", if it does not remain "unseen" then what would be the purpose of "testing"?

*The afterlife is an abstract and unproven idea, so I'm not interested in hearing that the real fruits of being a person of the book will be revealed in paradise. *

That is part of the test. If the "idea" is "proven" then everybody would jump and start believing, there wouldn't be a difference in someone who believed without seeing the clear sign and one after seeing the sign. There would be no "test" then.

*I just want to know what muslims think of God being partial to a particular religion which exists only on earth as far as we know (don't forget there is life on other galaxies too). *

Life on other galaxies is our imagination, what do we know if there really exists one or not? How do we know that if it exists they didn't receive a similar message?