Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
^ladies and gentlemen antiobl's twisted version of the great game. Kids listen you might learn the WRONG way of intepreting history from antiobl uncle.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Yeap. The great game and its history is as twisted as the twists and turns in the Kabuli darbars (courts). One day a brother, next day an enemy. Kill, slash, burn.
That is precisely why Kabul is a now a bombed out place serving as a lesson to those who can avoid reaching the same destiny.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Dear antibol, give me your opinion about below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1965
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1947
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Asal_Uttar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Boyra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Garibpur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hilli
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Basantar
And allies? What allies? It makes me laugh hearing slaves calling themselves allies! Conquered and subject people claiming themselves allies of conquerors, hahahaha!
There is a joke that says, there was a snake running. And nearby there was an ant also running. Someone asked the ant “why are you running?”. It answered “Snake uncle and I killed an elephant”! 
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
This Wikipedia seems to be biased.. India won only one war- 1971. Pakistan was victorious in every other wars- especially 1965 which Pakistan won clearly.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
quas, yo sooo funny.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
What did we win in 1965? Kashmir? New Delhi?
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
^ we could have won both had it not been for the ceasefire. Pakistan suffered some initial causalities but we had an upper hand when the war was stopped.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Dear LoTD, wars between Bharat and Pakistan were a set of comedies and tragedies.
However the main theme was always there to protect the urban centers from Kabuli-style destruction.
Whatever $hite happened, happened mostly on the borders of modern day Pakistan. Pakistan gained in some areas, and Bharatis gained in other areas. Still the war was much more like the war of equals and not a war between snake and ant.
The lesson that we have learned were to be powerful and yet disciplined enough to stop the war at some stage.
Had we gotten into a terrible-tribal tango Afghan (Iraq, Iran) style, things would have been much different.
Look at the most recent Bharati dance. Even in Kargil they sent two planes on Pakistani side. Once these planes were shot down and pilots captured, Bharatis with all their might, never sent a single plane on our side, let alone bombing any city or even a qasba.
Look you Afghanis can make fun of Pakistanis. However thank god and thank Pakistani army that our cities like Peshawar, Kohat, Bannu are not like the jannat established by none other than one-eyed Afghan wonder boy.
So remember:
tribals (Afghans, Iraqis, Iranis) destroy their own cities
civilized people on the other hand protect their cities.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Just to get focused - this thread is about Freedom fighters, not India Pakistan wars.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
When you talk about "fighters", you ought to accept "fights".
Bharati Freedom from Brits came in June 21, 1948. So Happy Birthday to our neighbors. There was no fight. British viceroy decided that Bharatis can now drive their country safely. Bharatis were given license upgrade from learner’s permit, and so the Bharati rule started.
At most we can say "Bharatis did a drawing room meeting with Brits". Instead of fight, they had tea and biscuits. Everything worked out just fine. Off course that is what you expect from civilized people. Had Bharatis been bunch of Afghan tribals, Arab-insurgents, or Somali-fighters, then we would have seen blood in Dilli and British anthem being played in Red Fort all the way to June 21st 1948 or may be much longer.
So rejoice you all civilized people!
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
I am inclined to think that British would have left South Asia anyway after the second world war.
South Asians got the feel of British loosing their grip when the war started. And so they started agitations and exploited the situation to make British leave.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Correct me if I am wrong.
Agitation was just vegitarian-vegitation. How else Bharatis could beg Lord, General, Viceroy, Governor General, Mountbatten to stay on beyond August 15th 1947.
The real Bharati rule came on June 21st when the Brits said, you Bharatis are old enough to drive your own car now. Here is your shiny new permit.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
After reading through the comments - I have realised that most Pakistani's know nothing about the Independence movement - perhaps a delibrate attempt by Pakistani rulers on teaching selective history.
My advise to all of you is read some books on this subject: Freedom at Midnight - by a French & English author is good. See the movie: Gandhi.
Google and find out more !! and then you'll be able to do some intellegent & knowledged based discussions on this subject..
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Yes. A drama film to be used as "history". Wah Wah malhot sahib.
How about following your own advice to figure out why June 21 1948 is the true Azadi (independence) day for Bharatis.
Google and find out why Bharatis begged, pleaded, rubbed their noses in dirt while in Murgha (chicken) position just for one thing! To keep Mountbatten as their supreme leader? Why Malhot? Why?
You don't fight freedom wars and then keep your occupier as your supreme leader.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
^ Why don’t you part with some really advanced knowledge in your possession so that the poor Pakistanis can learn something. Seems your references are to foreign authors and a foreign made movie. Surely the Indian teaching wasn’t selective and therefore there must be hundreds if not thousands of unbiased accounts being taught in Indian schools. 
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Yes Pashtuns certainly have a long history of fighting opressor and occupiers …
That is until the opressor\occupier offers enough money for them to sell out everyone else in the fight 
Then they are buddies again. 
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Oh, Malik Bhai tussi ki hal aiy, yar ham thu waisai larthai jagarthai rahai thai, ham serious nahin hain!
But Pashtuns will not sell themselves as a nation...you cannot simply buy or subdue them "all" into "subservience"...that is why there have always been heroes among them although there has always been some traitors as well...A Pashtun is strong enough to force you to offer him bribes but not at the cost of his dignity...
That is the difference...!
Anyhow, I was joking! Please, don't mind!
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
“Gandhi”. My advice to you is to stop fabricating history based on movies. There is more to history then what the eye of the camera sees. If you insist on movies be your mentor then watch “Jinnah”, may be.
I hope you are not saying that Muslims did not struggle to get freedom from British. And if you really are not saying it then I wonder why can’t you think of people like Haider Ali, Tipu Sultan, soldiers of 1857, Quaid e Azam, Allama Iqbal, Liaqat Ali Khan, etc.?
Asking this question is being just plain weird.
But as I said, British did not leave due to the politics of agitation. They left because they simply could not control a land as vast as South Asia from so long a distance, especially after the bloodiest war of all times. I would have accepted your argument about you kicking out British if Bharat was the ONLY country that British in early and middle 1900s. But it was NOT. For various reasons, British (and French) had started withdrawing from the colonies anyway.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
But Pashtuns will not sell themselves as a nation...you cannot simply buy or subdue them "all" into "subservience"...that is why there have always been heroes among them although there has always been some traitors as well...A Pashtun is strong enough to force you to offer him bribes but not at the cost of his dignity...
That is the difference...!
Anyhow, I was joking! Please, don't mind!
LOD, I dont take it personally. Anytime you speak to someone on the internet who can make a logical semi-coherant arguement without resorting to name-calling its a conversation to be savoured.
There is certainly a grain of truth in what you say, as I told you in another thread all stereotypes are based on some degree of reality.
Yes Pashtuns have a high value on honor and dignity, and I would certainly agree that muslim Punjabis have at times been willing to cooperate with occupiers - as would be indicated by the large number of muslim Punjabis in both WW1 and 2 British Indian armies. But the question is; Is that such a bad thing? Consider the regressive, insular nature of Pashtun\afgan society, I think a lot of it stems from ethnocentric\dated traditions\attitudes.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Wah Wah... yahaaN to har shakhs taareekh daan (historian) bana hua hai. Kabhi yeh bhi socha keh aakhir woh konsey anaasir (elements) hein jo humein in baatoN mein uljhana chahtey hein???????????