Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Use your head Mr Singh. The British would try and say it was Gandhi that won it for the subcontinent - to divert attention fro the reailty.
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and what did your Jinn....oops jinnah do for the freedom struggle?...what did he do?. atleast gandhiji used to fast, what did he do?.
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It wasnt Jinnah in my opinion that did much for freedom. He just guided the process. The pressure was the collapse of the British economy meaning they could not sustain the faraway subcontinent colony. The collapse of the British economy was brought about by the second world war, and players like Bose, the Pathans, the INA, all meant that Britain could not subdue a violent uprising. If it was Gunthee Jee, he would have told everyone to do nothing, sit and starve.
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Look, talk what is relevant to the topic. you dont have throw stones at india or gandhi over here.
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Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Good topic Narayan.
Youre right, before the population of the subcontinent was fully divided abt their freedom plans, there were times when they were all one against the common enemy and at that time the fighters (the word 'fighters' is being used synoymously for combatants, revolutionaries, scholars, poets, and freedom strugglers from all walks) had a common fight. In some cases the population divide had begun much earlier making hindu and muslim heroes seperate, but in many cases as late as the 1940s fighters fighting the British were heroes for all and not just their sects etc.
Therefore to answer narayan's question, the list of freedom fighters regarded as heroes or freedom fighters in Pakistan would be surprisingly similar to the list in India, give or take a few. In Pakistan, Gandhiji and Nehru are regarded and credited for their imp roles in the freedom struggle, that they are not as popularly worshipped as M A Jinnah, Liaquat Ali Khan, Sir Syed, Allama Iqbal and so on is obvious, and it gets worse and unrealistic during arguments due to ego issues on both sides. Similarly I'm sure in India Jinnah is given due credit for his role, and Iqbal's anthem is still most popular.
Apart from these large figures, the common people at the Jillianwalla bagh are well regarded as heroes and martyrs, Bahagat Singh has a fan following, Tipu Sultan is as big on both sides, and there are many more I'm sure. Mangal Panday comes to mind too :D
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
The only people in the entire Indian subcontinent who fought the Brits were Pashtuns!!! Haider Ali, Tipu Sultan and Bakhat Khan Rohila were all Pashtuns who fought the Brits to their last breath and off course the people of Pashtun heartland only stopped fighting the Brits when they out of the Indian subcontinent in 1947.
The Indians in general and Punjabis in particular were loyal slaves to the Brits.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Slaves to Brits? True! It’s better to be slaves to Brits than to be slaves to some form of shallow mentality. Haider Ali, Tipu Sultan etc were Pashtun? Okay.. They are heros. Going by a similar logic, Jinnah, Iqbal and even Liaqat Ali Khan were ‘Punjabis’. Jinnah was from the stock of Lohana Rajputs who originated in Punjab. Iqbal was a Kashmiri Punjabi. Liaqat Ali Khan was born in Haryana, Punjab. Now all these people, Punjabis or not, were not as slavish as those heros who spent their lives at ‘congressional service’. Last viceroy didn’t have fond memories of ‘Punjabi slave’, Jinnah. His memories of congressional slaves were different.
Punjabis have not been as self-centered and monolithic as some other ethnic groups. Punjabis invited Pushtoons to attack other Punjabis. Sikhs fought wars against the British forces. They, along with other Punjabis, also served in British army. Sikh Punjabis became more loyal to Khalistan/Hindustan. Muslim Punjabis became loyal to Pakistan. Hindu Punjabis became loyal to Hindustan. There is no Punjabi nationalism left. General Aurora was also a Punjabi born in Jehlum. Unfortunately, I remain more loyal to the clan of general Niazi. Both Congress and Muslim League chose Lahore to start their formal freedom struggle. Jalianwala Bagh is also in Punjab.
It depends on your definition of Hero. I can not deny the hero status to Gandhi or Nehru. But they are not my heros. My heros may not be the heros of an ordinary Indian or even some Pakistanis. Jinnah, Liaqat Ali Khan etc. were not the only heros of the people. They did lead the people for a period of time. But real heros were ordinary people and local activists without whose support creation of Pakistan would never have been possible. Urdu speaking Muslim community of Hindustan played a very active role in this regard. In the end I believe that secular Muslim Jinnah represented me better than secular Hindu Gandhi. Pictures of some heros:
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
This tread is regarding “Who are considered freedom fighters against British”.
I don’t doubt that Jinah Liaqat Ali and Iqbal were Punjabis but they did not struggle against the Brits. Their struggle were against the Congress to create a homeland for Punjabi Muslims with the help of Brits. Brits used Muslim league to weaken India by creating Pakiland and at the same time reward Punjabi Muslims for their loyalty to the Queen.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
U must be out of your mind.. Jinnah was a Gujarati Ismaili- I am not sure if you have been to Pakistan but there are moves by muslim intellectuals moulvis to brand them non-muslims like Ahmadis.. It is just that they have money.. otherwise Ismailis are like Shias and are not liked by 99% Pakistanis. Liaqat Ali Khan was a mohajir. Iqbal was a Kashmiri Brahmin. Get your facts.. Our biggest enemy was congress as most of its members were idol-worhsippers.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Reward Punjabi Muslims? Hmmm, then this reward must have been stolen by some other groups… at least in early fifties or sixties. Anyways, I’ll once again state that I would rather be a ‘slave’ to British than those who consider me an untouchable religiously or ethnically. Jinnah, the slave, was probably the first statesman who convinced his masters to introduce some form of constitution to Pakhtun regions. British, the masters, considered some provinces uncivilized. Thanks to the acquiescence/neglect of the previous regimes and obduracy of some local leaders, civilization (economic and social progress.. not the British context of civilization) has yet to take root in Malakand and other tribal areas. The day this dream is fulfilled, you would realize that Pakistan was not to reward any specific areas. Otherwise, you always have a choice to go across the border to reap the Tajik rewards for a few days and then come back to contribute more to your country or province. In any case, I don’t believe in keeping people my slaves. I have none.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Yaar yahan to jhagra shuru ho gaya. I just wanted to know for my knowledge the names of few freedom fighters.
**I know the freedom fighters were same for both countries, but who credit in India and who in Pakistan. **The question is not even Hindu/Muslim/Sikh.
For instance we consider Gandhi/Bhagat Singh/Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad/Rani Laxmi Bai/Mangal Pandey etc etc. and I think you all would agree that these heros put their life in stake for the then India (not for the divided Ind/Pak).
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
You can just laugh, thats all. He has affected many countries and many more hearts in getting their right and freedom.
One thing I would agree is that he was not a politician, but was definitiely one of the greatest leaders and above all a great human being which most of us do not even try to be.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
last of the dino, malakand, i know you guys are racist idiots, but please stop making up stuff... may i remind you gandhi's special 'dosti' with baaacha?
Muslim League ofcourse played a big role, and Bengal faction deserves special mention.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
^ Please tell me about special “dosti” of Gandhi with Bacha khan, spock. Maybe it is like what a lot of Catholic priests have with their Bachhas here in the US. Hindus and Pathans never fought for sub-continent’s freedom. It was largely Punjabi muslims(Iqbal, Chaudhary Rahmat Ali etc.) and a few notable mohajirs like Liaqat Ali Khan.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
we fought for our freedom, but we were never part of the indo-pak subconitnent per say. We fought in the anglo-afghan wars, where british wer embarrassed in the first one, stalemate in the second, adn Ghazi amanullah's vitory in the third. We fought on the afghan front, thats why our heroes are mentioned in Afghanistan's history (other than bakht khan ofcourse). I.e. people like Faqir-i-ipi, Bacha Khan 'Fakhr-e-afghan", Wazir Akbar Khan, Ghazi Amanullah, Umra Khan Jandooli aka Afghan Napolean, etc.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
WE? Who are WE here? Bunch of Afghan tribals?
Oh Khan Ji, The "WE" Afghans of 1830's-1880s were no different than the 1978 Afghnan sell outs to the Ruskies. 1830, they were selling their ghairat to Ruskies, 1978, the same Ruskies became Commies. And yet Kabul's "lefties" sold their ghairat and became pawns in the hand of Ruskies.
Back in 1880s, British+Punjabis+Pushtoons were simply there to kick out Ruskies-sell-outs just like in 1980s when Brits+US+Pakistani-Pushtoons+Pakistani-Punjabis were there to kick out Kommies.
Sure Afghan wars ended up killing lots of pro-Western soldiers in 1880s, but Afghanistan was saved from the Ruskies. Fast forward 1980s and the same thing happened. Kabulis sold their ghairat to Ruskies. Again so many pro-West people had to die to get rid of the Kabuli-scourge.
So keep this half-baked half-cooked "defenders" aka Ruskie-sell-outs to yourself. We had had enough with these trouble makers.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
My personal opinion is that Pakistani independence was not the culmination of struggle mainly by Jinnah. Rather, the 2 men who did the most for the cause of Independence were Reichs Chancellor Hitler of Germany and Prime Minister Tojo of Japan.
Britain had needed Indians to fight World War 2 (Indian soldiers in the British Army in World War 2 were the largest all-volunteer army ever in the history of the world). The independence of Pakistan was based on the influence the Muslim League built with Britain through supporting the war effort.
The true heroes of Independence were the Muslim jawans and officers who shed their blood and lost their lives for the British Empire in far away lands, so that their people could be freed through Britain holding the Muslim League in greater esteem.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
antiobl i am talking about history the brave pashtuns that fought n defend our honour and pride. You seem to go crazy with the mention of afghan deal with it! Now i was tlaking abotu history, whe someone said pashtuns didnt fihgt against the british, oh yeh and the people I mentioned never sold themselves out, maybe you should read history more before you insult men of such staure like Wazir Akbar kHAN.
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
Britain had needed Indians to fight World War 2 (Indian soldiers in the British Army in World War 2 were the largest all-volunteer army ever in the history of the world). The independence of Pakistan was based on the influence the Muslim League built with Britain through supporting the war effort.
The true heroes of Independence were the Muslim jawans and officers who shed their blood and lost their lives for the British Empire in far away lands, so that their people could be freed through Britain holding the Muslim League in greater esteem.
Most of the all voulnteer Indian army who fought alongside british soldiers was muslim.. they not only fought for the subcontinent's freedom from the Great Britain but also for independence from a largely Hindu India.. that was the greatest achievement.. Now we can thank those great jawans that we Pakistani muslims are living peacefully and with great harmony in the promised land of the pure. JazakAllah
Re: Who are considered freedom fighters against British in Pakistan
You know I hear the word History on ever increasing almost historical level. Yet the history mentioned by yourself remains a cockeyed and myopic view of the world. Afghans were punished by the Brits because amir dost was dancing with the Ruskies. Just like the later year lefties in Kabul who danced with the commies.
Brits captured dost guy and released him after the threat of Ruskies was gone (and amir dost made 10 lines in the sand using his nose while in the murgha position). Sure modern Afghans treat this as a tribal triumph. However tribals never learn from the oft repeated word called "history". Same tribals committed same mistakes and UK+allies went in Afghanistan again in the 1980s.
Going back to amir dost, you say he fought against the Brits. Yet the same amir followed British commands during 1862 war against Iranians.
So Khan Ji, picking and choosing history to prove the mantle of "warrior tribals" is nothing but a faint attempt to thump a tiny chest.
Please tell me about special “dosti” of Gandhi with Bacha khan, spock. Maybe it is like what a lot of Catholic priests have with their Bachhas here in the US. Hindus and Pathans never fought for sub-continent’s freedom. It was largely Punjabi muslims(Iqbal, Chaudhary Rahmat Ali etc.) and a few notable mohajirs like Liaqat Ali Khan.