Wilful denial is a different matter. For example, when one knows minorities are discriminated against, and when denies it. One can be rightly said to detest minorities.
When one knows secular not same as atheist, but one willfuly denies this, one can be said to detest secularist.
Just my two cents. You are free to deny - willfully or otherwise.
sorry, but don't we have been told that secular are not equal to atheists?
and this is not about minority issue. Most of the time minorities are also not atheists. Do atheists only detest religion of majority and ready to accept God of minorities, if they are that much concerned about minorities?
I am not an atheist, but an atheist simply doesn't believe in any religion. Most people question religion because if a Holy Book is the word of God, why do such books contain logical inconsistencies?
ex: Noah's Ark. How could two of every animal in the world fit in an absurdly small ship? This makes no sense.
Furthermore, to suggest that people disbelieve in light of overwhelming evidence is extremely unfounded. Rather, it is religious people who believe despite a lack of evidence. No one has actually seen or heard God, we only trust that the books given to us contain the words of God instead of the ideas of humans. Religions require faith. If a person doesn't think faith is enough, then why would they believe?
The way people are discussing someone with differing views on religion is disturbing. Someone who doesn't prescribe to a religion is not some freak or animal, they are people. People with differing views. There is no psyche or ulterior motive. That would be like suggesting that people of a certain religion have a specific mindset. A little understanding goes a long way.
why don't they detest Christianity they have first experience? why Islam they don't know much about?
There are some people who are anti religion. They get on everyone's nerves, religious or non religious people alike.
I think the thread starter meant to refer them instead of atheists.
BTW there is very little difference between people who dont care about religion (which is most of the educated world) , atheists , and people who belong to a religion but do everything which is against it (munafiqs i guess) they eat, drink or have a questionable character as per their religion but still claim to belong to it ( which is almost everyone i have seen).
Do you know the exact version of Noah's arch as per Quran?
Yes I do. It still references the pairs of animals, and the flooding of the Earth. Even if you wish to claim that the flood was somehow local, that many animals could not fit onto such a vessel. It makes no sense.
Yes I do. It still references the pairs of animals, and the flooding of the Earth. Even if you wish to claim that the flood was somehow local, that many animals could not fit onto such a vessel. It makes no sense.
What are the words that make you believe that Quran claims that Noah's arch contained all the species (birds, etc)?
I am not an atheist, but an atheist simply doesn't believe in any religion. Most people question religion because if a Holy Book is the word of God, why do such books contain logical inconsistencies?
ex: Noah's Ark. How could two of every animal in the world fit in an absurdly small ship? This makes no sense.
Furthermore, to suggest that people disbelieve in light of overwhelming evidence is extremely unfounded. Rather, it is religious people who believe despite a lack of evidence. No one has actually seen or heard God, we only trust that the books given to us contain the words of God instead of the ideas of humans. Religions require faith. If a person doesn't think faith is enough, then why would they believe?
The way people are discussing someone with differing views on religion is disturbing. Someone who doesn't prescribe to a religion is not some freak or animal, they are people. People with differing views. There is no psyche or ulterior motive. That would be like suggesting that people of a certain religion have a specific mindset. A little understanding goes a long way.
Are you suggesting that said story is not in the Quran?
Miracles mentioned in Holy Quran are not logical inconsistencies for you?
Can you mention a verse from Quran which says the ALL the animals and/or number of the animals and exact size of ship?
regarding the bolded part, the example you took from source originally says "ordinary ship", and you change it to "absurdly small ship". this tells your intentions. And still you people claim that you have no problem with religion, height of shamelessness.
[So it was], until when Our command came and the oven overflowed, We said, "Load upon the ship of each [creature] two mates and your family, except those about whom the word has preceded, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few
What are the words that make you believe that Quran claims that Noah's arch contained all the species (birds, etc)?
See above.
Miracles mentioned in Holy Quran are not logical inconsistencies for you?
Can you mention a verse from Quran which says the ALL the animals and/or number of the animals and exact size of ship?
regarding the bolded part, the example you took from source originally says "ordinary ship", and you change it to "absurdly small ship". this tells your intentions. And still you people claim that you have no problem with religion, height of shamelessness.
To claim that an ordinary ship can hold two of every creature *is *absurd. Such a thing is physically impossible. Even the largest cruise ships today wouldn't be able to do that. Not to mention the work necessary to feed and clean after so many creatures, which was supposedly performed by Noah's family.
Again, I am not an atheist, but you don't see how stories like that could make people doubt religious books?
[So it was], until when Our command came and the oven overflowed, We said, "Load upon the ship of each [creature] two mates and your family, except those about whom the word has preceded, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few
See above.
To claim that an ordinary ship can hold two of every creature *is *absurd. Such a thing is physically impossible. Even the largest cruise ships today wouldn't be able to do that. Not to mention the work necessary to feed and clean after so many creatures, which was supposedly performed by Noah's family.
Again, I am not an atheist, but you don't see how stories like that could make people doubt religious books?
can you mention the source of your translation? actually, I want to tell you what you missed out pruposely.
and you didnt answer me my question , Miracles mentioned in Holy Quran are not logical inconsistencies for you?
can you mention the source of your translation? actually, I want to tell you what you missed out pruposely.
and you didnt answer me my question , Miracles mentioned in Holy Quran are not logical inconsistencies for you?
I think it was quran.com. I don't rely on one particular site. Why would you think I have an ulterior motive? Again, I said I'm not atheist, but just because I'm not bashing them doesn't mean I'm against Islam either. Try not to be biased.
It depends on the miracle but I suppose you could call them logical inconsistencies. Although when I refer to logical inconsistencies I'm not necessarily referring to supernatural events, more to things that don't make sense. kakabali explained it well earlier in this thread: If you told someone 600 years ago about planes, computers, cameras etc, they would think you were a sorcerer, or they wouldn't believe you. I see atheists as the same way. Faith isn't enough for them.
The one they used to follow before being / converted to atheism or some other religion they used to detest when they followed a particular religion?
Do they concentrate more on the religion which they think has some potential to challenge their views. A connected question, do atheists study religion deeply before abandoning it?
i dont think they "detest" religion simply because they dont follow one or belong to one. Im sure there are some who detest religion, as there are some Muslims who detest anything they perceive to be UnIslamic. but being an atheist doesnt mean you detest religion by definition.
You dont believe in Christianity or Buddhism, do you DETEST these religions? Like wise, not supporting or believing in something doesnt necessarily mean you must detest it.
Some study religion, others dont. Atheists are people like you and i. They arent a separate species. They come in different varities with varying reasons for why they become atheist. To try to lump them into specific categories is as useful as lumping all Pakistanis into one group or another. There are shades of gray.
You dont believe in Christianity or Buddhism, do you DETEST these religions? Like wise, not supporting or believing in something doesnt necessarily mean you must detest it.
Why people support or not support a particular ideology? There are reasons behind it. Disagreement with your religion on certain issues may not necessarily lead to abandon it. disliking / feeling of detesting that ideology, should be there to abandon it.
Follow the notion of 'people are scared of telling the truth'
When we talk about fear of religious people that means positively, apprehension of God
Atheist and agnostics have negatively-fear of God.
And when you know the idea of God irrespecitve of proof, 'dont care' psychology does not work.
What exactly do you mean by "fear of God". It is a concept of the Abrahamic religions I suppose. How would U define it. Why don't those who believe in God not do the right thing because it is the right thing to do or because they love God's creations rather than doing something out of fear? I know a couple of Atheists who are so selfless that I would consider them as better people than religious ones. If God exists then he/she/it will reward these people just for their service rather than their belief. If not can such a selfish and narrow-minded entity even be called God and be worthy of worship?
but Proephet (SAW) didn't claim miraj and shaqqul qamar as his miracles. He, based on revelation, kept on saying that he doesn't have any miracles. Islam, during the period of Prophet was by no mean a fairy tale and Quran doesn't portray Prophet as a supernatural being. Many places, Quran convey the message that the Prophet is like common men, who eats, marries, walk in markets like other Prophets used to. Its the followers who made his personality supernatural without knowing that considering him supernatural is against the teachings he preached for all his life time.
Muqawwee, U may believe in prophets and I in Avatars. But today, if someone who is a very humble, selfless and service-oriented person starts preaching right and wrong and starts claiming to be God's prophet or messenger would you accept him follow those teachings if what he is saying will lead to the betterment of humanity as a whole? If NO, why not?
denial is the biggest detestation (specially when its done without knowing the basic premise of a particular religion).
In the same way are religious people any different? Those who believe in God and deny the validity of other religions and uphold only theirs and the true one any better since their denial is the biggest detestation ? These people can be grouped in the same class as those Atheists who "detest" religious people. Since religion is based on faith, at the end of the day it is like claiming my Unicorn is larger and prettier than yours.
Muqawwee, U may believe in prophets and I in Avatars. But today, if someone who is a very humble, selfless and service-oriented person starts preaching right and wrong and starts claiming to be God's prophet or messenger would you accept him follow those teachings if what he is saying will lead to the betterment of humanity as a whole? If NO, why not?
No. simply because , I have no doubts what is said in Quran and I have studied the circumstances in which Quran was revealed that are enough to make me believe teachings of the Prophet (which includes there will be no prophet after him).
In the same way are religious people any different? Those who believe in God and deny the validity of other religions and uphold only theirs and the true one any better since their denial is the biggest detestation ? These people can be grouped in the same class as those Atheists who "detest" religious people. Since religion is based on faith, at the end of the day it is like claiming my Unicorn is larger and prettier than yours.
The concept of God is very much engraved in the roots of man. Its a different thing that you disagree with the concepts of God in another faith than complete denial of God. Isn't it?
The non-believers of Arabs believed in Allah. When they were asked 'who created land and sky', they used to reply 'Allah'. They just had created shareek (partner of God). Whenever, they faced difficult circumstances, they used to call 'Allah' forgetting other 'gods'. Their problem was with the Prophet, because he was preaching for the only one God. People of Makka used to think that they will lose all trade if these gods are abandoned, as people all over the Arab world used to visit their gods (whose moortis were placed in Kaaba). It was not about the gods but about the losing of trade and then status-quo, which made them severe enemy of the Prophet.
Concept of one and only one God is not only the domain of Abrahamic religions and I think you know that it even exists in Hinduism.