There are plenty of disagreements each day in this forum. Lots of people deny each others position. Muq, by your logic, there are several "detestations" going on in this forum each day! That is not very logical. That was the point I was trying to make earlier.
In your own words you deny existence of Avatars.so you must detest those who believe in Avatars.
Looks like this detesting logic of your only applies to cases when someone denies what you believe in. Not other way around.
Why people support or not support a particular ideology? There are reasons behind it. Disagreement with your religion on certain issues may not necessarily lead to abandon it. disliking / feeling of detesting that ideology, should be there to abandon it.
My point was, disagreeing with something or not believing in something, does not mean you detest it. The title of this thread implies that being an atheist means you must "detest" religion, which is not the case.
There are plenty of disagreements each day in this forum. Lots of people deny each others position. Muq, by your logic, there are several "detestations" going on in this forum each day! That is not very logical. That was the point I was trying to make earlier.
In your own words you deny existence of Avatars.so you must detest those who believe in Avatars.
Looks like this detesting logic of your only applies to cases when someone denies what you believe in. Not other way around.
The point is when I detest, I don't hide it by saying look 'I'm not atheist, but.........'.
I think most of the thinking people have doubts about whole faith thing, but they are unwilling to totally disconnect from their faith(s) (whatever that maybe). Changing or giving up your faith can be traumatic experience for lot of people…almost like assuming a new identity. I’m a good example of that. I don’t call myself atheist, but I consider myself to be a Muslim-agnostic. So, when someone says I’m not an atheist, we’re just saying we don’t take everything at face value when it comes to faith.
I really don't know where you are going with this.
What exactly do you mean by "when I detest?" Detest what. Detest whom?
How about finishing the sentence I am not an athiests but... I truly don't understand what you are trying to say?
Where is the question of hiding or coming samney? Life is not black and white. It is not
I believe or I detest.
Detest the idea of non-existence of God, as atheists detest the idea of existence of God and call people who believe in existence as irrational. When I said atheists detest religion that mean the religion which they dislike most. People here have come up with their inputs by telling what is their perception about atheists and reasons why they dislike a particular religion (without going into the meaning of detest). You can add your comments in same lines.
The world Muslim itself implies ‘submission’. submission to whom? to God. I think Agnostic means one who has doubts about the existence of God (correct me if I’m wrong). How can we submit before an entity, we don’t believe or have doubts about existence of that entity?
Ok. I guess I was stuck at use of detest. And couldn't get past it. We can agree to disagree on whether denying a religion is same as detest.
Now to the point of what I think about atheists. First I humbly disagree with use of dislike - as in atheists dislike religion. And which religion atheists dislike the most.
Dislike, while not as strong as detest, is not what all aheists may feel towards religion. Atheists may fall under one or more categories. For them religion may be:
1) comical. As in folks spending so much time on something no one knows exists - from their POV. Noah's ark.
2) Harmful. As in several wars started in the name of religion.
3) impede progress. Some folks still believe universe is 5000 years old. More education, less or no religion is their mantra
4) Not dislike religious people. But stand up against abuse of minority religion.
5) Dislike the notion that each religions followers want everyone to believe in their faith. While "denying" other faiths.
As you see, very little dislike. Atheists are just ahead of the curve, IMHO.
I think it was quran.com. I don't rely on one particular site. Why would you think I have an ulterior motive? Again, I said I'm not atheist, but just because I'm not bashing them doesn't mean I'm against Islam either. Try not to be biased.
It depends on the miracle but I suppose you could call them logical inconsistencies. Although when I refer to logical inconsistencies I'm not necessarily referring to supernatural events, more to things that don't make sense. kakabali explained it well earlier in this thread: If you told someone 600 years ago about planes, computers, cameras etc, they would think you were a sorcerer, or they wouldn't believe you. I see atheists as the same way. Faith isn't enough for them.
the very next verse says
[11:41]And [Noah] said, "Embark therein; in the name of Allah is its course and its anchorage. Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."
Following is reference to that event from Sura Al-Mu'minūn
[23:26][Noah] said, "My Lord, support me **because they have denied me."
[23:27] **So We inspired to him, "Construct the ship under Our observation, and Our inspiration, and when Our command comes and the oven overflows, put into the ship from each [creature] two mates and your family, except those for whom the decree [of destruction] has proceeded. And do not address Me concerning those who have wronged; indeed, they are to be drowned.
note the following points in that regards...
You don’t know the number of animals present at that time.
You don’t know the exact size of that ship.
Since that ship was constructed under the observation of Allah (s.w.t) so you cannot imagine the size of ship, virtually and physically.
You should know what a logical inconsistency is, you didn’t tell us with what part of Quran this incident is inconsistent with.
If you don’t believe in divine power and miracles then we cannot help you further.
kaka_in_usa raised a point in post 10 . you should know from where the discussion started before asuming things and trying to answer with typical arguments.
btw, reincarnation is scientifically independent phenomenon or some Hindu religious concept?
may i ask you same question against reincarnation or you don’t believe in it?
your frustration proves my point correct, atheists and nonbelievers will always be poking around to satisfy their soul against this fear.
because our Creater knows best about everything within us so He gave good news to believers, following link is good explaination of state of eman against the point raised by kaka_in_usa.
The world Muslim itself implies 'submission'. submission to whom? to God. I think Agnostic means one who has doubts about the existence of God (correct me if I'm wrong). How can we submit before an entity, we don't believe or have doubts about existence of that entity?
No, not necessarily b/c Muslims come in many varieties and beliefs. Can you tell me which one is the correct one?
[quote]
ag·nos·tic
Noun
A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena;
[/quote]
Although Sunnis make up the majority of Muslims, not every Muslim belongs to the same Islamic sect. A Muslim’s Islamic beliefs may take one of these forms:
Sunni Muslims include 84%–90% of all Muslims. Sunni means “tradition,” and Sunnis regard themselves as those who emphasize following the traditions of Muhammad and of the first two generations of the community of Muslims that followed Muhammad.
A number of movements to reform Islam have originated mainly in the 20th century. Some are limited to one country and others have a broader influence. Most are Sunni movements, such as the Wahhabis, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Jama`at-i-Islami.
Shi`ite Muslims comprise 10%–16% of all Muslims. Shi`ites are the “party of `Ali,” who believe that Muhammad’s son-in-law `Ali was his designated successor (imam) and that the Muslim community should be headed by a designated descendent of Muhammad. Three main subgroups of Shi`ites are Twelvers (Ithna-`Asharis), Seveners (Isma`ilis), and Fivers (Zaydis).
Sufis are Islamic mystics. Sufis go beyond external requirements of the religion to seek a personal experience of God through forms of meditation and spiritual growth. A number of Sufi orders, comparable to Christian monastic orders, exist. Most Sufis are also Sunni Muslims, although some are Shi`ite Muslims. Many conservative Sunni Muslims regard Sufism as a corruption of Islam, although most still regard Sufis as Muslims.
Baha’is and Ahmadiyyas are 19th-century offshoots of Shi`ite and Sunni Islam, respectively. Bahai’s consider themselves the newest of the major world’s religions but recognize that historically they originated from Shi`ite Islam in the same way that Christianity originated from Judaism. Ahmadiyyas do regard themselves as Muslims. Most other Muslims, however, deny that either group is a legitimate form of Islam and regard members of both groups as heretics — people who have corrupted and abandoned Islamic belief and practice.
Druze, Alevis, and `Alawis are small, sectarian groups with unorthodox beliefs and practices that split off from Islam. Druze and Alevis do not regard themselves as Muslims and are not considered Muslims by other Muslims. `Alawis have various non-Islamic practices, but debate continues as to whether they should still be considered Muslims.
.....5. If you don’t believe in divine power and miracles then we cannot help you further.
That's the whole point. Miracle is something that cannot be explained by our current knowledge.
Now Atheists would argue about Noah's story that there are AT LEAST 3 million species of animals and whether it is possible for a human to gather a pair from each of, say, 300,000 species (10% of least estimate of number of species) and put them all into a ship.
They are not HATING people who believe in the story. They are just saying that the story is most likely made up and until we get a technology that can explain that event, they won't believe it.
It is not like a grocery store though. Almost ALL sunnis are sunnis because they were born into a sunni family. Same goes for almost all other sects of Islam and it makes HATING another sect very ridiculous since your beliefs only come from what you were taught and not your own discovery after an honest effort to understand each. People did not go to a grocery store and chose the stuff they liked most. It was rather handed down by their parents.
Same goes for religion. Most jews are jews because they were born in a jewish family, etc.
the very next verse says
[11:41]And [Noah] said, "Embark therein; in the name of Allah is its course and its anchorage. Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."
Following is reference to that event from Sura Al-Mu'minūn
[23:26][Noah] said, "My Lord, support me **because they have denied me."
[23:27] **So We inspired to him, "Construct the ship under Our observation, and Our inspiration, and when Our command comes and the oven overflows, put into the ship from each [creature] two mates and your family, except those for whom the decree [of destruction] has proceeded. And do not address Me concerning those who have wronged; indeed, they are to be drowned.
note the following points in that regards...
You don’t know the number of animals present at that time.
You don’t know the exact size of that ship.
Since that ship was constructed under the observation of Allah (s.w.t) so you cannot imagine the size of ship, virtually and physically.
You should know what a logical inconsistency is, you didn’t tell us with what part of Quran this incident is inconsistent with.
If you don’t believe in divine power and miracles then we cannot help you further.
Quran is not dealing with the minute details of Noah's arc, its length, width, height. It doesn't mention its three story structure.
There are different meanings 'azwajaa nath natein'. some people believe its about cattles (for milk and meat). If one go through Surah e An'aam, he can find these words 'azwajaa nath natein' there. Wording 'alwaahin wo dusur' as to shape of the arc in Surah e Qamar and number of followers who embarked Noah's arc in the wording 'wa qaleel' as per Surah e Hood tells totally a different story. Different tafaseer of Quran have been influenced with Isra'iliyat which is a separate and detailed field of knowledge in itself.
the very next verse says
[11:41]And [Noah] said, "Embark therein; in the name of Allah is its course and its anchorage. Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."
Following is reference to that event from Sura Al-Mu'minūn
[23:26][Noah] said, "My Lord, support me **because they have denied me."
[23:27] **So We inspired to him, "Construct the ship under Our observation, and Our inspiration, and when Our command comes and the oven overflows, put into the ship from each [creature] two mates and your family, except those for whom the decree [of destruction] has proceeded. And do not address Me concerning those who have wronged; indeed, they are to be drowned.
note the following points in that regards...
You don’t know the number of animals present at that time.
You don’t know the exact size of that ship.
Since that ship was constructed under the observation of Allah (s.w.t) so you cannot imagine the size of ship, virtually and physically.
You should know what a logical inconsistency is, you didn’t tell us with what part of Quran this incident is inconsistent with.
If you don’t believe in divine power and miracles then we cannot help you further.
Quran is not dealing with the minute details of Noah's arc, its length, width, height. It doesn't mention its three story structure.
There are different meanings 'azwajaa nath natein'. some people believe its about cattles (for milk and meat). If one go through Surah e An'aam, he can find these words 'azwajaa nath natein' there. Wording 'alwaahin wo dusur' as to shape of the arc in Surah e Qamar and number of followers who embarked Noah's arc in the wording 'wa qaleel' as per Surah e Hood tells totally a different story. Different tafaseer of Quran have been influenced with Isra'iliyat which is a separate and detailed field of knowledge in itself.
