Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Mograkali

Please understand that in Hinduism, the idol represents the idea of god, therefore the physical idol must be respected. Putting flowers etc on it is a representation of respect for god as represented by the idol. Hindus do not think the physical idol itself can harm or help.

Dear did i ever use the word Hindu, infact i never even had this in my brain when i commented. It was just my rebuttal to Vedic, because he fails to understand the muslim perception of Kaaba but this is a very old dialogue and these have been answered.
Nothing new, but people wanna argue i feel its ignorance due to lack of knowledge.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Seminole

^ Nor apparently was it a ritual at the time of Abraham, the founder, physical and spiritual ancestor of the Jewish people.

Hmmmmmmmm interestin some unfinished business in the other thread, common semi pass your comments i just love it when you do it. Some more, some more waiting for it.

[hypnotix-2000]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

I think I may have used the word Hinduism, albeit for a different intent... I apologize if this has caused the misunderstanding.

[Seminole]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@SlaveofAllaah

Hmmmmmmmm interestin some unfinished business in the other thread, common semi pass your comments i just love it when you do it. Some more, some more waiting for it.

hmmmm, are you saying it was an Abrahmic tradition before Islam and that it was erased from all records? Please, do tell.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Seminole

Why? The only relationship it has with Islam is that it is a superficial similarly sounding name.

:) Semi as expected unfortunately i do have a friend who is quite knowledgeable about the bible and respect him for that

He complete agrees with bacca same as mecca no arguments and let me hit the nail on the head a confirmation, when i made a visit for Umrah he asked me to ZamZam water, not because he liked it a lot because it was mentioned in the bible (according to him).

[Captain1]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Vedic_Intellect

Bro try to get past the Hindu definition of Idol Worship. Try not to compare it with their form of idol worship. In my opinion, if you consider any rock/stone/idol** divine**, it is idol worship. Taking rounds of it, praying towards it etc all contribute towards this being called idol worship.

What do you understand of "worship"? People flocking to see Imran Khan or Shahrukh Khan or Angelina Jolie or any other celebrity would also come under "worship" per your definition?

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Seminole

hmmmm, are you saying it was an Abrahmic tradition before Islam and that it was erased from all records? Please, do tell.

If i say yes, do you have something to defend yourself.:D I say yes prove me wrong:) .

[hypnotix-2000]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@SlaveofAllaah

:) Semi as expected unfortunately i do have a friend who is quite knowledgeable about the bible and respect him for that

He complete agrees with bacca same as mecca no arguments and let me hit the nail on the head a confirmation, when i made a visit for Umrah he asked me to ZamZam water, not because he liked it a lot because it was mentioned in the bible (according to him).

Brother are you sure about BKK being same as MKK? Are these not common nouns? It's not 55 days in Peking you know!

[Seminole]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@SlaveofAllaah

If i say yes, do you have something to defend yourself.:D I say yes prove me wrong:) .

My defense is that I was not aware that the rituals around the Kaaba existed in the orignal versions of the Abrahamic religions. The onus is on you to prove me wrong.

[Vedic_Intellect]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Captain1

What do you understand of "worship"? People flocking to see Imran Khan or Shahrukh Khan or Angelina Jolie or any other celebrity would also come under "worship" per your definition?

Flocking to see celebrities is just crazy fan antics. There is nothing religious about it. 'Worship' is religious ! Devout muslims from around the world flocking to the Kaaba in millions to perform rituals around it and pray towards it.. Thats worship. And since the Kaaba is a stone, it qualifies as idol worship.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@hypnotix-2000

Brother are you sure about BKK being same as MKK? Are these not common nouns? It's not 55 days in Peking you know!

I wonder the name bacca mentioned in the Quran then became macca

003.096 *
**YUSUFALI:* The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings:
PICKTHAL: Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Becca, a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples;
SHAKIR: Most surely the first house appointed for men is the one at Bekka, blessed and a guidance for the nations.

Then

048.024 *
**YUSUFALI:* And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of Makka, after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
PICKTHAL: And He it is Who hath withheld men's hands from you, and hath withheld your hands from them, in the valley of Mecca, after He had made you victors over them. Allah is Seer of what ye do.
SHAKIR: And He it is Who held back their hands from you and your hands from them in the valley of Mecca after He had given you victory over them; and Allah is Seeing what you do.

Well i never wrote those words so i leave it to you,

To **semi **i expected you to get his verse, i also provided you a hint now this what it is no more mind games right from psalms chapter 84 (consists of 12 verses quoting from New internation version, the one i possess)

1 How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD Almighty!
2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.
3 Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-- a place near your altar, O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you.
5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Seminole

My defense is that I was not aware that the rituals around the Kaaba existed in the orignal versions of the Abrahamic religions. The onus is on you to prove me wrong.

Since you are not aware of it then you shud believe in what i shud say, is that right. So no more mind games,

Below is the quote from Psalms 84 (NIV):
1 How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD Almighty!
2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.
3 Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-- a place near your altar, O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you.
**5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
**7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.

[sweet_taboo]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

[quote]
Hmmmmm Semi no comments i am curious to know the name bacca in the bible. I think in psalms
[/quote]

The name Baca is used for Makkah in the Qur'aan (3:96-97).

**Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-'Alamîn (the mankind and jinns).

In it are manifest signs (for example), the Maqâm (place) of Ibrâhim (Abraham); whosoever enters it, he attains security. And Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) to the House (Ka'bah) is a duty that mankind owes to Allâh, those who can afford the expenses (for one's conveyance, provision and residence); and whoever disbelieves , then Allâh stands not in need of any of the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinns). *

Can you post its exact location in the Bible bro SOA?*

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Vedic_Intellect

Flocking to see celebrities is just crazy fan antics. There is nothing religious about it. 'Worship' is religious ! Devout muslims from around the world flocking to the Kaaba in millions to perform rituals around it and pray towards it.. Thats worship. And since the Kaaba is a stone, it qualifies as idol worship.

Salam,
Answer do we worship Allaah or Kaaba, answers to only this please without any explanation, let us go ahead from here.

[Vedic_Intellect]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@SlaveofAllaah

Salam, Answer do we worship Allaah or Kaaba, answers to only this please without any explanation, let us go ahead from here.

We worship Allah. We worship Kaaba. We travel huge distances to perform rituals around it. We pray towards it. We worship Kaaba.

[Seminole]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@SlaveofAllaah

Since you are not aware of it then you shud believe in what i shud say, is that right. So no more mind games,

Below is the quote from Psalms 84 (NIV): 1 How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD Almighty! 2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. 3 Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-- a place near your altar, O LORD Almighty, my King and my God. 4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you. 5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. 6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.

I should believe you because of something I am not aware? Sorry to disapoint, but I don't put that much stock into your knowledge and posts.

I know the Psalms passage very well and took that into consideration when I said there is no similarity outside of the coincidental, inconsequential similar name. It proves nothing. There is nothing about the ritual surrounding kaaba here. The destination here is Zion, not Mecca.

Bending the facts to fit biased theories constitutes game playing in my mind.

[sweet_taboo]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Seminole

If anyone thinks that the deserts of Saudi Arabia are more holy or blessed than others, I suggest they visit Lake Louise in Canada, the Galapagos Islands, Glacial and Yosemite National Parks in US or Neuschwanstein Castle in the Alps. These are just a few of the places on earth where God decided to bless us with a little of bit of heaven on earth.

How materialistic, shallow and superficial.

You have to be a Believer to appreciate these things...

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Vedic_Intellect

We worship Allah. We worship Kaaba. We travel huge distances to perform rituals around it. We pray towards it. We worship Kaaba.

Salam brother,

We worship only Allaah and not kaaba, if you dont believe in me just ask other muslims.

Firstly muslims believe in Monothiesm so accordingly what you have explained is Polytheism which is not accepted in Islam, so any muslim worshipping Kaaba is committing shirk (i.e ascribing partners to Allaah)
Now if any muslim worshipping Kaaba should have this intention in his/her heart that Kaaba benefits me, kaaba can harm me, kaaba provides me with all the sustenance in the world, yes his/her is committing shirk.

So accordingly in the complete thread all the Muslims have been voicing that we dont worship kaaba. But again its the perception of non-muslims towards kaaba, the muslim perception is we worship only Allaah.

As you said we have to step into the shoes of hindus to under idol worship, its the same better step into the shoes of muslim to understand we dont worship the kaaba, this is a misconception.

Brother any more queries go ahead.

[sweet_taboo]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Seminole

I should believe you because of something I am not aware? Sorry to disapoint, but I don't put that much stock into your knowledge and posts.

I know the Psalms passage very well and took that into consideration when I said there is no similarity outside of the coincidental, inconsequential similar name. It proves nothing. There is nothing about the ritual surrounding kaaba here. The destination here is Zion, not Mecca.

Bending the facts to fit biased theories constitutes game playing in my mind.

Maybe the early Jews past through Mecca (Valley of Baca?) on their way to Jerusalem and it had some significance, like Muslims today consider Jerusalem sacred and make pilgrimage to Temple-Mount/Al-Aqsa on the way to Mecca?

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?

@Seminole

I should believe you because of something I am not aware? Sorry to disapoint, but I don't put that much stock into your knowledge and posts.

I know the Psalms passage very well and took that into consideration when I said there is no similarity outside of the coincidental, inconsequential similar name. It proves nothing. There is nothing about the ritual surrounding kaaba here. The destination here is Zion, not Mecca.

Bending the facts to fit biased theories constitutes game playing in my mind.

Ok fine destination is Zion, but in between bacca falls btw, i have to believe in the christian friend who believes in this statement and does confirm to it.

Well i dont deny your thinking you might be right, but sorry i am more inclined towards him since i have already told he is quite knowledgeable so thats wer my case rests.

Bending my case to fit biased theories, well i feel this is a fact and i hardly knew about this before i was informed so you get my point.

I am happy you dont strain yourself reading my post point is your answering to each and every point of mine, i would think otherwise if you aint interested.

To me its ver clear in the bible regarding the blessed valley of bacca, i have confirmed this from a genuince christian though i do not wanna ignore your point but it stands on a very weak argument.

Well take care,

Regards,