Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Why is there no mention of this ritual in previous incarnations of Abrahamic religions?
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Now let me tell you Idol worship well i thought you must be knowing this
1) We circumambulate round the kaaba so that we worship the kaaba this is a misconception amongst the non-muslims. We circumambulate by declaring by each and every of the 7 rounds that there is one God, one true God. 2) Let me analyses further Kaaba is just as a direction for the muslims in arabic its Qibla for prayers. 3) During the past Muaddin (The one who calls for prayers) they used to climb on Kaaba used to call for the prayers, would any one stand on there idol who s/he worships. 4) Umar, the 2nd caliph of Islam shouted out when he was kissing the blackstone where all the muslims heard That you (blackstone) you neither harm nor benefit me but i am just kissing you because the Prophet had done it. 5) Blackstone is again important as we start our circumambulation from this point onwards. I would call some one idol worshipping if s/he stands in front of the idol and has faith that this idol can harm or benefit me. Thats the case of most of the idol worshippers. Any more doubts do let me know.
Bro try to get past the Hindu definition of Idol Worship. Try not to compare it with their form of idol worship. In my opinion, if you consider any rock/stone/idol** divine**, it is idol worship. Taking rounds of it, praying towards it etc all contribute towards this being called idol worship.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
And why are you comparing it to Hajj?
Perhaps SlaveofAllah can explain that. If not, then I will...
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
^the stone is not divine.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
I would call some one idol worshipping if s/he stands in front of the idol and has faith that this idol can harm or benefit me. Thats the case of most of the idol worshippers.
Please understand that in Hinduism, the idol represents the idea of god, therefore the physical idol must be respected. Putting flowers etc on it is a representation of respect for god as represented by the idol. Hindus do not think the physical idol itself can harm or help.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
^ Nor apparently was it a ritual at the time of Abraham, the founder, physical and spiritual ancestor of the Jewish people.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
I think that most muslims resent the regular understanding of 'idol worship' bcuz its associated with kafir hindus...maybe this is why we so strongly do not want to be associated with that term?
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka’bah come from?
^
Muslims are monotheists, we only pray to and worship God. We are against ‘idol-worship’ because it is stupidity.
We make pilgrimage to the Kaabah because it is the Temple of God, we go there to pray to God.
The Kaabah is sacred to us because we believe it is (on the site of) the first Temple built for the worship of God.
The idea that we pray to it is stupid, it is a building, we pray inside it too, in the early days Muslims even climbed on top of it to call to prayer.
It’s like saying Hindus worship the Mandir (temple) instead of the Moorti (statue) or that Christians worship the church building instead of Christ :as:.
Considering something sacred is not same as worshipping it.
I know we face the Kaabah in prayer (like Jews face Temple Mount) but we don’t even think about it or have any image of it in our head, our prayers are directed to God who is formless and beyond comprehension.
Even at times when there is no building there (like when it was being rebuilt) we faced that direction, it’s a sign of unity when all belivers worldwide face the same Temple and congregate at the same temple every year.
Not just the black stone but the whole Temple and its surroundings are sacred to us because it is the House of God but we don’t worship them.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka’bah come from?
To The God blongs the East and the West… so why go to a “Temple”?
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Indeed they do belong to Him and also "wherever you turn is the face of God".
God forbid I'm not saying Allaah is contained within the Temple..
It's a blessed and holy place because God is glorified there, God chose it as a place of gathering for His devotees and He ordered us to turn our faces to it and He told us to make pilgrimage to it.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Indeed they do belong to Him and also "wherever you turn is the face of God".
God forbid I'm not saying Allaah is contained within the Temple..
It's a blessed and holy place because God is glorified there, God chose it as a place of gathering for His devotees and He ordered us to turn our faces to it and He told us to make pilgrimage to it.
see I find something wrong with that argument... we have been asked to turn to al Masjid al Haraam. That is to be our Qiblah (target) and I have explained in another thread al Masjid al Haraam is "The Truth" from God... what did Abraham turn his face towards? Was that a physical direction?
I really think a few of the threads opened recently should be combined...
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
^
Seriously man, I've no time for your weird intrepretations, they're getting kind of boring popping up in every thread.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
^
Seriously man, I've no time for your weird intrepretations, they're getting kind of boring popping up in every thread.
it was my response to your wierd interpretation that God has blessed one place on earth and not the other... what is the point of physicality for a God that is omnipotant and omnipresent.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say only one place is blessed and the rest are not... The entire earth is a Mosque according to our religion (Islam)..
Some places are just more holy than others, and that's up to God to decide, we can't possibly fathom Allaah's Wisdom, I simply believe in whatever it says in His Holy Scripture, if He gives me some Hikmah and I understand some of His Wisdom then that's His Grace on me but if I don't it doesn't matter, what matters is I believe in His Word and that it's the best for me.
Sacred places are in no way an impediment to God's omnipotence or "omnipresence" (I don't really like this word, it sort of suggests God is limited by time and space since "everywhere" is basically space, He is beyond time and space)...
...He can hear us and help us wherever we may be but if we make the effort to visit His Temple then it's a sign of devotion, it's a act of worship to Him, He's also Omniscient but we say our prayers out on our tongue even though He knows what we need and desire without saying it, but we ask Him by praying because it's an act of worship...
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say only one place is blessed and the rest are not... The entire earth is a Mosque according to our religion (Islam)...
then there is no argument for Mecca... sorry.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
If anyone thinks that the deserts of Saudi Arabia are more holy or blessed than others, I suggest they visit Lake Louise in Canada, the Galapagos Islands, Glacial and Yosemite National Parks in US or Neuschwanstein Castle in the Alps. These are just a few of the places on earth where God decided to bless us with a little of bit of heaven on earth.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Why is there no mention of this ritual in previous incarnations of Abrahamic religions?
Hmmmmm Semi no comments i am curious to know the name bacca in the bible. I think in psalms
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Hmmmmm Semi no comments i am curious to know the name bacca in the bible. I think in psalms
and I am curious why could it not have been left untranslated when it was rendered into modern Hebrew and Greek, the same way Macca is not translated from Arabic to Urdu or English.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Bro try to get past the Hindu definition of Idol Worship. Try not to compare it with their form of idol worship. In my opinion, if you consider any rock/stone/idol** divine**, it is idol worship. Taking rounds of it, praying towards it etc all contribute towards this being called idol worship.
SAlam,
My point are as follows
1) I never ever used the name Hindu so this is something which is accused on me.
2) I mentioned praying towards it is because of direction and because of unity.
How about 10 muslims meet and pray in 4 different directions, Islam is based on unity (though critical analysis says it not the same case with muslims today but Islam believes in unity)
3) Now i have provided with the points about, none of them you have written about but just one comment this is not sporty.
4) Let me tell and you can ask amuslim (i.e. with average knowledge about islam) do you worship Kaaba, and i rest this case on you.
5) Please do read the Quran for more information, because the infomation is clear there.
6) I told you why do we circumambulate, but if want to argue further lets go and critically analyze wrt Quran.
Re: Where did the Black Stone held in Ka'bah come from?
Hmmmmm Semi no comments i am curious to know the name bacca in the bible. I think in psalms
Why? The only relationship it has with Islam is that it is a superficial similarly sounding name.